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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by groceryguy View Post
    can you give a quote with a link for that?
    as i recall you had to farm A LOT to even get to 35 traits before ToV released. So tuning it for 50 would have been pretty ridiculous.
    My understanding was that most of mythic nighthold bosses are tuned for 54 traits...maybe after trilliax, not sure though
    Gonna try to find the quote, but I believe Blizzard has said that Augur, Elisande and Gul'dan were tuned for 54, but that was not the original intent. They did it because before NH released, many mythic guilds were already at 54 traits.

    I believe this was discussed during the last Q&A that Ion was at

  2. #22
    At least we know the truth now. If mythic content requires you to play the game a lot and is really challenging if you don't most people fall away and crumble.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    At least we know the truth now. If mythic content requires you to play the game a lot and is really challenging if you don't most people fall away and crumble.
    Your "truth" conveniently ignored the part about "being rewarded for said challenge". But I'm sure it was just an accidental omission and not a indirect suggestion that mythic raiders are just lazy loot whores.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    A bit missuse of data in my opnion, since there is alot of difference between TBC and Legion when it comes to other things then the playerbase. We are also talking about a mid-expansion boss vs the last boss of an expansion. So try not to put too much into the difference here between the 2.

    But when it comes to the question of about high end mythic... I don't really think it matters how many is clearing Mythic, but just that it is there. It is important to have some hard and unbending content, that might not be used by large populations of the playerbase, but is still there if you want to go that far and dedicate yourself to that limit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, if you make mythic more causal friendly, it will not take long for many people to demand harder content and then we will get super mythic raiding onto of mythic raiding.

    I'm not sure which one you refer as mid-expansion boss but AFAIK both are last bosses of an expansion.

    Also I think it matters how many is clearing mythic. If less and less people clear mythic soon there is no point for Blizzard to create hard content and WoW will lose even more raiders.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonezerker View Post
    They did it because before NH released, many mythic guilds were already at 54 traits.
    And why they were at 54 traits? Because it was possible, even in unreasonable amount of time. No one is going not to farm, unless EVERY guild sets an agreement. Won't happen.

  6. #26
    The big problem is gear. Why should I do Mythic if I can potentially get the same feeling of character progression from Heroic, Mythic +, or WQs.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Your "truth" conveniently ignored the part about "being rewarded for said challenge". But I'm sure it was just an accidental omission and not a indirect suggestion that mythic raiders are just lazy loot whores.
    So you are saying I am correct. But added in a couple eyes full of salty tears and the faint echo of a whine. Thanks!

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    I just looked some facts and I found high end raiding isn't as popular anymore. Is content too hard or do WoW have much less subs nowadays?

    https://www.wowprogress.com/boss/kil...36#first_kills

    In link above you can see about 5 and half months around 2000 guilds killed Kil'jaeden

    https://www.wowprogress.com/encounte.../next/20#first

    And here you can see in 5 months only ~430 guilds killed Archimonde mythic. Both are final bosses of their expansion and still gap is that huge. Should they make mythic raiding more casual friendly?
    You're probably better off comparing heroic Archi and KJ, Mythic raiding in both legion and WoD are a step harder than any of the raids were back in TBC while TBC only had one difficulty so everyone who wanted to raid played the same difficulty.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Not exactly, no...

    it's more like NH slams all wannabies in the face pretty hard and puts them into our place (including myself here).

  10. #30
    Do we really need a new thread about this every week?

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    False assumption. Even Trial Of Valor was tuned around ~50 traits, and that is raid before Nighthold. You can't even kill Krosus if whole raid don't have 54 traits, yet alone later bosses...
    Nighthold is tuned around 54 traits and WF/TF gear there's no doubt.
    We had several people in our raid on krosus first kill that didn't have 54 traits, the hard part on krosus is the dps requirements and most classes can break that without 54 traits and with heroic NH gear.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    OMG.

    Do you even use the internet for something else but spreading BS and assumptions?

    Mythic people don't want to do it, simple because titanforged tier gear from HC is better than Mythic tier set. Theres no point with high end raiding, its not rewarding, especially when NH is so tightly tuned regardless of iLvl.

    Basicly they go like, "we won't get better until 20 people gets all thier slots with titanforged mythic gear".

    Casuals once again, destroyed the fun as they so desperatly trying to please them all the time.

    There. Simple information.
    Last edited by mmocd6fe3ee806; 2017-03-23 at 01:08 PM.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    A bit missuse of data in my opnion, since there is alot of difference between TBC and Legion when it comes to other things then the playerbase. We are also talking about a mid-expansion boss vs the last boss of an expansion. So try not to put too much into the difference here between the 2.

    But when it comes to the question of about high end mythic... I don't really think it matters how many is clearing Mythic, but just that it is there. It is important to have some hard and unbending content, that might not be used by large populations of the playerbase, but is still there if you want to go that far and dedicate yourself to that limit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, if you make mythic more causal friendly, it will not take long for many people to demand harder content and then we will get super mythic raiding onto of mythic raiding.
    He was comparing the end boss of WoD vs end boss of tbc though, not legion.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Strifeload View Post
    OMG.

    Do you even use the internet for something else but spreading BS and assumptions?

    Mythic people don't want to do it, simple because titanforged tier gear from HC is better than Mythic tier set. Theres no point with high end raiding, its not rewarding, NH is too tight regardless of iLvl.

    Casuals once again, destroyed the fun as they so desperatly trying to please them all the time.

    There. Simple information.
    There. Simple, worthless hyperbole. Next. Also the sheer irony of you calling people out on spreading bullshit and assumptions and then following up with a statement like that is both hilarious and astounding.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Reape View Post
    No question of how many guild killed things like Kel'Thuzad in Vanilla? from what i remember it was something like 0.5% of the playerbase even saw him, less killed him.
    While I don't disagree with your statement, I was there when original Naxx was released. The timeframe from when Naxx was released to when BC launched was VERY tight. It's not like now when end game content and the last boss for an expansion are available for a year.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Siglius View Post
    There. Simple, worthless hyperbole. Next. Also the sheer irony of you calling people out on spreading bullshit and assumptions and then following up with a statement like that is both hilarious and astounding.
    WTF are you talking about?

    Read the thread. People are like "HEEEPR DERP". I don't get this mindset.

    Its really simple and the information is easy to get. Its not worth doing Mythic as you get more value just running HC(if you are like the 99% mythic guilds constantly keep wiping). This favors casuals and obviously hurts mythic guilds.

    If ilvl was like 930 as base on Mythic, people would still stay(but then we have the creeping casuals whining about how hard mythic is).
    Last edited by mmocd6fe3ee806; 2017-03-23 at 01:17 PM.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    So you are saying I am correct. But added in a couple eyes full of salty tears and the faint echo of a whine. Thanks!
    Well, no. The difference between raiding mythic and heroic now is pretty much that you'll see the same bosses but on a harder difficulty. Even with warforging the best gear was from mythic HFC, a warforged heroic Edict of Argus for example was slightly worse than a mythic unforged one. What happens today is instead that you get the best gear from doing a ton of content, not hard content, just a lot of it. This completely removes character progression and power increase from clearing mythic which means you can't overgear the bosses the same way over time and it also means that to "finish" your character like a lot of people want, you have to run stupid amounts of M+ and hope for obscene titanforges rather than just clear the hardest content a reasonable amount of times. The fact that LFR can drop 925 raidloot with sockets that is superior to base mythic loot is pretty insane, even if it is very rare for example.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Think of that - you can kill Guldan get titanforged pants on HC or kill Guldan on Mythic, get standard version which is worth less. Now think of how tightly NH is tuned. Stupid design, stupid demand from the community(casuals).

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Strifeload View Post
    WTF are you talking about?

    Read the thread. People are like "HEEEPR DERP". I don't get this mindset.

    Its really simple and the information is easy to get. Its not worth doing Mythic as you get more value just running HC(if you are like the 99% mythic guilds constantly keep wiping). This favors casuals and obviously hurts mythic guilds.

    If ilvl was like 930 as base on Mythic, people would still stay(but then we have the creeping casuals whining about how hard mythic is).
    Exactly. Character progression is pretty much removed from mythic because of how close in ilvl the gear is to HC and the quite generous war/titanforge system. That and the fact that some classes have near mandatory bis legendaries that you can't reliably farm for except by doing more content than any sane person would.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    We had several people in our raid on krosus first kill that didn't have 54 traits, the hard part on krosus is the dps requirements and most classes can break that without 54 traits and with heroic NH gear.
    Unless most of your raid is performing way above average (90+ percentile) and you have perfect raid setup, that's impossible without 54 traits.

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