Another Russian Assassination

[Shalcker]

100% people that fall for it. I tend to go with the idea that people are not at fault for falling for propaganda, because of the amount of effort that usually goes into it. But, in this case, as many times as this happens, to still buy the idea of Putin's enemies killing each other off, to damage Putin, is the fault of those who fall for it.

Well, the killer is already known to be participant of Ukrainian ATO - from Ukrainian side, obviously... so, this idea seems to be true. Yes, those who hate Putin can kill those who claim to hate Putin (but vote for annexation anyway).

Sorry for your loss of clarity in your picture of how world works.

As for "damaging Putin", they try to use anything to that end, so this time is no exception.

Why would they? Putin wants nothing, but the best for the original capital of Russia.

Because self-reflection helps with solving problems and deflection ("Putin's Fault!") doesn't.

Impossible... what year did Putin blame Chechnya and the west for killing Anna Polichiskova? Crying wolf typically gets recognized as that eventually... yet... here you are...

Well, she did happen to get killed by Chechens... as did Nemtsov, you know. So this part isn't exactly false.

[Super Kami Dende]

Bullets to the head? Sounds strangely like what happened to the people investigating Hillary Foundation a couple years ago.

[Adolecent]

Young Ukrainian citizen (born in 1988) involved in political murder. I sincerely don't believe that Ukrainian youth is supporting Putin by any chance

People do anything for money.

[Deleted]

I really don't think it's a good idea to assert that any Ukrainian that was born since 1988, cannot possibly support Russia. It kinda paints Russian narrative about Crimea in a bad light.

Sure. But neither is idea to assert the opposite. There is simply no information, just loud politicians and "journalists" yelling nonsense to push their agendas.

People do anything for money.

Indeed. In both Ukraine and Russia businesses and politicians are corrupt on massive scale. There is very large amount of people who would want any politician dead and would easily pay for it.

Any politician or businessman could have ordered it. From both Ukraine and Russia.

Putin's fault is he's very slow at fighting corruption, whole political system needs massive shake down in order for something positive to happen, but I doubt he had anything to do with any murders media are putting on him.

[Adolecent]

Putin's fault is he's very slow at fighting corruption, whole political system needs massive shake down in order for something positive to happen, but I doubt he had anything to do with any murders media are putting on him.

Putin is "slow on corruption" because he uses corruption as a tool to consolidate his power. He is the center of Russian corruption.

[Charge me Doctor]

I really don't think it's a good idea to assert that any Ukrainian that was born since 1988, cannot possibly support Russia. It kinda paints Russian narrative about Crimea in a bad light.

You do realize that Kiev and Crimea have different demographics? Crimea mostly populated by Russians (who identify themselves as Russians, had Russian passports, speak Russian language, etc) while it used to be Ukrainian territory? While Kiev is Ukrainian capitol? And polar opposite of what "east Ukraine" is (you know, the whole rant like "we actually work here on the west on farms and in the mines while assholes in west just sit in their comfy offices, do nothing and get paid more"). Kiev, Kharkov, L'vov are the places where you don't want people to know that you have or had any political ties with Russia at all because of various groups that are interested in, you know, murdering you.

- - - Updated - - -

People do anything for money.

Exactly. So wild guess of somehow Russia being involved in that is just as absurd as killer being hired by Moldova. But most likely he was instructed to do so by these guys.

[Machismo]

Honestly, these guys need to stop getting assassinated in order to make Putin and the Russian government look bad. It's downright despicable that they would lower themselves to getting shot in the face in order to push a political agenda. Poor, poor, Putin.

[Adolecent]

Exactly. So wild guess of somehow Russia being involved in that is just as absurd as killer being hired by Moldova. But most likely he was instructed to do so by these guys.

Thats a long shot. More plausible is that the assassination was ordered by Putin and/or his henchmen because: "He was a former Russian parliamentarian who fled Russia last October and has criticized President Vladimir Putin's government."

ps: A civil society protects its former parliamentarians, even when they don't agree with the government. Where were his FSB guards?

[Gref]

I love how assassinations by Russians are explained humorously here. Lead poisoning being the best imo. Tragic tho.

[Charge me Doctor]

Thats a long shot. More plausible is that the assassination was ordered by Putin and/or his henchmen because: "He was a former Russian parliamentarian who fled Russia last October and has criticized President Vladimir Putin's government."

ps: A civil society protects its former parliamentarians, even when they don't agree with the government. Where were his FSB guards?

More plausible? Current Russian government wins less than anyone in this political debacle, less than literally anyone. They literally have no reason to do that.

And before people actually start this whole "he was government critic" - he wasn't he supported almost everything that United Russia spew out. He also initiated campaign against Pokemon Go in Russia, he also lied about fighting in Afghanistan, he also known for selling someone else's property, he is also known for lying about his vote in Duma (you know, this whole "he is a government critic" started from his lie about him "not voting "yes" for accepting Crimean referendum and making it part of Russia (which is understandable lie since he planned to get Ukrainian citizenship), but the only one who voted "no" for this was this guy.
So, the dead Russian politician is just that, dead Russian politician on Ukrainian soil. He wasn't a threat to "Putins regime" or whatever people call it, Russian government was least interested in killing its own ex-deputies (at least this specific one)

FSB do not operate in other countries like that afaik, he did not had any FSB guard in Kiev, because there is no FSB operatives in Kiev.

[Felya]

You do realize that Kiev and Crimea have different demographics? Crimea mostly populated by Russians (who identify themselves as Russians, had Russian passports, speak Russian language, etc) while it used to be Ukrainian territory? While Kiev is Ukrainian capitol? And polar opposite of what "east Ukraine" is (you know, the whole rant like "we actually work here on the west on farms and in the mines while assholes in west just sit in their comfy offices, do nothing and get paid more"). Kiev, Kharkov, L'vov are the places where you don't want people to know that you have or had any political ties with Russia at all because of various groups that are interested in, you know, murdering you.

Do I realize? Here is why he above assertion is now a problem for you:

Young Ukrainian citizen (born in 1988) involved in political murder. I sincerely don't believe that Ukrainian youth is supporting Putin by any chance

Since you question my knowing as much, I'm going to go with the above being blind defense of Putin?

- - - Updated - - -

More plausible? Current Russian government wins less than anyone in this political debacle, less than literally anyone. They literally have no reason to do that.

Yes, another adversary of Putin is killed to make him look bad. Because Putin has nothing to gain from his adversary's being killed. While the evil west gets to blame Putin for the murder, instead of having an adversary of Putin speak out against Putin. Great call!

[Charge me Doctor]

Yes, another adversary of Putin is killed to make him look bad. Because Putin has nothing to gain from his adversary's being killed. While the evil west gets to blame Putin for the murder, instead of having an adversary of Putin speak out against Putin. Great call!

If you turn off you political agenda and turn your brains on - no, current "regime" do not win anything from killing its own low-class politicians on soil of other country. "Aversary of Putin" my ass, someone who works for United Russia is hardly any "adversary", and how he became "adversary" while couple of posts ago he was a "critic"?

[Felya]

If you turn off you political agenda and turn your brains on - no, current "regime" do not win anything from killing its own low-class politicians on soil of other country. "Aversary of Putin" my ass, someone who works for United Russia is hardly any "adversary", and how he became "adversary" while couple of posts ago he was a "critic"?

Are you sure? Because I think, for me to believe that Putin adversaries are killing each other off, to make Putin look bad, would require ones brain to be turned off. Otherwise, I would think that having all these adversaries made Putin look worse, than killing them to frame Putin... over... and over... and over... again...

Want to see bias? Try the part of my reply you ignored. Claiming that this couldn't be a Russian supporter, because they were born in Ukrain. To then claim being born in Ukrain does not mean you didn't welcome Russia into Ukrain. Is a blatant example of which one of us is biased...

[Charge me Doctor]

Are you sure? Because I think, for me to believe that Putin adversaries are killing each other off, to make Putin look bad, would require ones brain to be turned off. Otherwise, I would think that having all these adversaries made Putin look worse, than killing them to frame Putin... over... and over... and over... again...

Want to see bias? Try the part of my reply you ignored. Claiming that this couldn't be a Russian supporter, because they were born in Ukrain. To then claim being born in Ukrain does not mean you didn't welcome Russia into Ukrain. Is a blatant example of which one of us is biased...

You can go into politics of Russia yourself and see "achievements" and "importance" of this killed deputy in question (which is still in state of superposition, he is Putin adversary AND Putins critic at the same time), he couldn't know anything even remotely "dangerous" to Putin, the worst thing for Putin he could do is to die like that and get into news.

I didn't get that part and i ignored it, it looks like a words salad honestly.
This could be a Russian supporter, but i sincerely disbelieve that because it's Kiev we are talking about, there is serious hate towards anything Russian, Russian bank recently was cemented by nationalists, my relatives from Kiev are afraid of talking to me on a phone in Russian, so we have to speak in Ukrainian instead to communicate.
And please, i never stated that he wasn't a Russian supporter, i sounded my opinion and explained why, it's called (surprise) a discussion

[Neldarie]

^ There is no point in arguing with payed trolls...

[Adolecent]

More plausible? Current Russian government wins less than anyone in this political debacle, less than literally anyone. They literally have no reason to do that.

And before people actually start this whole "he was government critic" - he wasn't he supported almost everything that United Russia spew out. He also initiated campaign against Pokemon Go in Russia, he also lied about fighting in Afghanistan, he also known for selling someone else's property, he is also known for lying about his vote in Duma (you know, this whole "he is a government critic" started from his lie about him "not voting "yes" for accepting Crimean referendum and making it part of Russia (which is understandable lie since he planned to get Ukrainian citizenship), but the only one who voted "no" for this was this guy.
So, the dead Russian politician is just that, dead Russian politician on Ukrainian soil. He wasn't a threat to "Putins regime" or whatever people call it, Russian government was least interested in killing its own ex-deputies (at least this specific one)

FSB do not operate in other countries like that afaik, he did not had any FSB guard in Kiev, because there is no FSB operatives in Kiev.

You probably need some links from independant media to support your large amount of claims.

- - - Updated - - -

^ There is no point in arguing with payed trolls...

They can say whatever they want, but if they can't prove it it's worthless.

[Charge me Doctor]

You probably need some links from independant media to support your large amount of claims.

He didn't vote "No" ("Нет", "Против") on a ratification of the treaty of annexation of the Crimea. (link). If you wish you can use this tool to analyse his political activity yourself, instead of blindly following media around.
And just look at his votes (http://vote.duma.gov.ru/?convocation...te_desc&page=2), almost everything is green ("in favor", "yes", "agree", you get the point) or gray ("didn't vote" or "skipped the meeting") with red ones being stuff like, being against strict laws on commercial fishing in protected places.

His (or it's media claiming it, i wouldn't be surprised them lying their assess off to fit their current agenda) claim of not supporting annexation was debunked a long time ago (and his claims started to pop up in various radio shows and his twitter feed somewhere in 2014, i don't want to browse through 2 years of him reposting shit to find that), after that he made a 180 turn and started blaming government for "being forced to vote for it".

Voronenkov also criticized Russia for the annexation of Crimea, even though in 2014, while still an MP, he had voted in favor of the decision, adding (in Russian) that he was approached with invitations to work for Ukrainian secret services.

http://rbth.com/politics_and_society...ukraine_726153

Killer had certificate of being in National Guard of Ukraine (http://en.censor.net.ua/news/433238/...soldier_source), so without wild assumption that "Russians are everywhere and they are going to get ya!" (or SERIOUS questions about Ukrainian military background checks) it's hard to link the killer to Russia. And there is a motif, a Russian politician who voted yes on annexation of Crimea, runs into a capitol of Ukraine, and gets killed by a member of nationalistic group. To me it's more likely than Putin wanting to kill a random corrupt deputy with bunch of offshore money from communist party (he was a part of UR for a year iirc). I wouldn't cross out his wife (who actually work for UR) or his business partner. There are plenty of people who wanted him dead just for his money.

It's quite hard to find any sources not in Russian or Ukrainian because, you know, international news agencies are not interested in what some random deputy said on his Duma election campaign in 2016.

[Zandalariprelate]

Someone gets gunned at Kiev in broad daylight? Clearly Putin's fault!

I mean, who else might have wanted that?! Ukraine obviously doesn't have anyone who would want to create "martyr" to get pressure on Russia, they would never try to politicize killings!




Btw, remember that French guy that got caught smuggling weapons out of Ukraine? His supplier (Ukrainian SBU informer) as well as main witness in that case recently committed suicide!

When a person is killed or mugged is Putin fault

[Mormolyce]

'You think our country's so innocent?'

Dang, beat me to it.

Boogeyman Putin strikes again.

No proof is needed, word of Ukrainian government officials is enough, who blame everything on Russia, including bad weather and shortage of French fries.

I think your sig requires less suspension of disbelief than this post.

- - - Updated - - -

Bullets to the head? Sounds strangely like what happened to the people investigating Hillary Foundation a couple years ago.

I like how you've edited the obvious pizzagate references out of your conspiracy theory.

[Heladys]

and how he became "adversary" while couple of posts ago he was a "critic"?

"adversary" and "critic" are not opposing stances, Komrade.