Resto Shaman 4th golden trait.

[obesemidget]

Can someone explain how shaman's raw output is less than the other healers and yet we consistently get subpar abilities. Our new golden trait triggers a 45 sec cooldown again 3 sec after cast..... Wow blizzard could you dedicate a single programer/designer to Resto shaman. We have had a singular change since 7.1 in which we lost SP% to chain heal. We weren't even in the top 3 healers in terms of output. You float ideas of allowing us to have an absorb attached to our HW and HS then scrap the entire idea. Also who cares about extra time spent healing on the move in PVE as an extra 8 secs is just going to be overkill and still will not put us in competition with R druids healing mobility.

Shaman need more of a presence on the tank healing spectrum or have more synergy with our healing rain to catch up to the top tier healers. Please stop making small insignificant buffs to very niche spells.

[PraisCthulhu]

Raw HPS is a terrible metric to judge healers by. Resto shaman are not in a bad spot at all. The majority of 10/10 Mythic NH guilds have had resto shaman in their raid team. Not every healer needs to be able to fill every roll. If you want to tank heal, don't heal as a resto shaman. I actually like that different healers fill different niches.

[grizz92]

Can someone explain how shaman's raw output is less than the other healers and yet we consistently get subpar abilities. Our new golden trait triggers a 45 sec cooldown again 3 sec after cast..... Wow blizzard could you dedicate a single programer/designer to Resto shaman. We have had a singular change since 7.1 in which we lost SP% to chain heal. We weren't even in the top 3 healers in terms of output. You float ideas of allowing us to have an absorb attached to our HW and HS then scrap the entire idea. Also who cares about extra time spent healing on the move in PVE as an extra 8 secs is just going to be overkill and still will not put us in competition with R druids healing mobility.

Shaman need more of a presence on the tank healing spectrum or have more synergy with our healing rain to catch up to the top tier healers. Please stop making small insignificant buffs to very niche spells.

well i mean one of the traits is a raw 30% buff to healing rain as well as a skill that costs no mana basically getting another use is really good imo, too many people complaining about shamans because all they look at is hps

[Ajjax]

Too many shams QQ about pure numbers and completely overlook the full toolkit and great utility we bring to the raid. Such a sham(e)

[Sigmatic]

I think this golden trait has some potential on stacked fights with large aoe bursts of damage. My gift already heals for 2.1m on average on Mythic Guldan and is 4.5% of my total healing. So this would just be a 4.5% total hps increase on Guldan. It would be about a 5.5% increase on Krosus. Because of the delay on the cast though, I could see this trait just being really bad on some fights because of movement or overheal. I think overall, the trait is fine and will probably be somewhere around a 3% hps increase.

[Sageless]

I think the 4th golden isn't that bad, I am more worried about the traits leading up to it.
Having to use 4 traits on tidewalker instead of a throughput trait puts us even further behind the other healing classes. And we are already consistently 10% behind druids, paladins and priests (poor mistweavers are only a couple % ahead of us). Add a trait that buffs healing rain, which is difficult to use due to the spread / move mechanics in raids these days I suspect shaman will drop even further down.

If history is an indication we'll get another 15 to 20% buff in 7.3 when even the people currently defending shaman being 10% behind the others can't do it anymore and shaman get benched in progression kills unless an SLT is required.

[jayheals]

It's a tricky situation because of spirit link. If our raid throughput were equal to holy priests and resto druids it would be pretty difficult to justify bringing either of those two specs over a resto shaman (this happened throughout HFC to an extent when the healing trinity was holy pally + disc priest + resto sham). It should be fairly clear at this point we're suffering from a "utility tax" or spirit link tax on our throughput. The healing rain trait could be pretty juicy, but if other healers get more substantial increases from their traits there could be a real problem. Nighthold seems to have found a decent balance (aside from MW), in that our output is a bit lower than other options but combined with link and/or APT we're still a very strong addition to a healing team. If our relative throughput falls off next tier we're in bad shape. Druids in particular have some really damn strong artifact traits coming, and could create some real balance problems.

[Deleted]

when even the people currently defending shaman being 10% behind the others can't do it anymore and shaman get benched in progression kills unless an SLT is required.

Thank you, that's my prediction, too.

To all of the people who don't get tired claiming that output doesn't matter on every balance discussion, then why would you even care if some of us want to see output bumped up a bit? Shouldn't matter to you then, if Rshaman do 10% more or less healing when output is irrelevant to you anyway and you're just happy to be brought along for your SLT. As far as I've read people who want a small buff don't want to be Nr 1 all the time everywhere, but are talking about only a slight increase in numbers to feel more significant as a healer in terms of throughput, because nobody wants to be brought to raids to drop a totem, but to actually deliver healing power. At least I do.

My personal opinion of the new traits is that they're bad. I got really excited when I saw the absorb trait, I thought it was amazing, complemented the Rshaman playstyle and would give that constant little output increase that's needed. But of course they took that away again.
The Gift of the Queen trait is too slow imo, only good in fights with constant damage where the raid keeps stacked in one location, the SWG trait seems dispensable, the current duration has always been more than sufficient for me. The Healing Rain one is solid, but I'm not sure if it will make enough of a difference overall. Also the traits are garbage for M+ content, where other classes get traits that are useful in every environment.

Druids in particular have some really damn strong artifact traits coming, and could create some real balance problems.

I agree with that. I can't understand why Resto druid output is getting so much love, when it's already beyond fine. Almost all Rdruid legendaries got buffed too.

[Dzur]

Thank you, that's my prediction, too.

To all of the people who don't get tired claiming that output doesn't matter on every balance discussion, then why would you even care if some of us want to see output bumped up a bit? Shouldn't matter to you then, if Rshaman do 10% more or less healing when output is irrelevant to you anyway and you're just happy to be brought along for your SLT. As far as I've read people who want a small buff don't want to be Nr 1 all the time everywhere, but are talking about only a slight increase in numbers to feel more significant as a healer in terms of throughput, because nobody wants to be brought to raids to drop a totem, but to actually deliver healing power. At least I do.

My personal opinion of the new traits is that they're bad. I got really excited when I saw the absorb trait, I thought it was amazing, complemented the Rshaman playstyle and would give that constant little output increase that's needed. But of course they took that away again.
The Gift of the Queen trait is too slow imo, only good in fights with constant damage where the raid keeps stacked in one location, the SWG trait seems dispensable, the current duration has always been more than sufficient for me. The Healing Rain one is solid, but I'm not sure if it will make enough of a difference overall. Also the traits are garbage for M+ content, where other classes get traits that are useful in every environment.


I agree with that. I can't understand why Resto druid output is getting so much love, when it's already beyond fine. Almost all Rdruid legendaries got buffed too.

I was pissed that the absorb went away. They could keep the current 4th golden, but instead of popping again 3 seconds later, I'd like to see it have twice the range and affect twice as many people. That way we're still in control of when and where that additional healing happens, not getting fucked b/c the tank kites the boss and all melee away with him and we're healing air with our 4th trait, which is supposed to be a throughput increase.

[Gunwolf]

Thank you, that's my prediction, too.

To all of the people who don't get tired claiming that output doesn't matter on every balance discussion, then why would you even care if some of us want to see output bumped up a bit? Shouldn't matter to you then, if Rshaman do 10% more or less healing when output is irrelevant to you anyway and you're just happy to be brought along for your SLT. As far as I've read people who want a small buff don't want to be Nr 1 all the time everywhere, but are talking about only a slight increase in numbers to feel more significant as a healer in terms of throughput, because nobody wants to be brought to raids to drop a totem, but to actually deliver healing power. At least I do.

My personal opinion of the new traits is that they're bad. I got really excited when I saw the absorb trait, I thought it was amazing, complemented the Rshaman playstyle and would give that constant little output increase that's needed. But of course they took that away again.
The Gift of the Queen trait is too slow imo, only good in fights with constant damage where the raid keeps stacked in one location, the SWG trait seems dispensable, the current duration has always been more than sufficient for me. The Healing Rain one is solid, but I'm not sure if it will make enough of a difference overall. Also the traits are garbage for M+ content, where other classes get traits that are useful in every environment.


I agree with that. I can't understand why Resto druid output is getting so much love, when it's already beyond fine. Almost all Rdruid legendaries got buffed too.

I just realized that they changed the 4th trait from the absorb to this double GotQ. That is a real bummer, we don't have any absorbs so that would have been a nice addition. I would much rather see the new trait be something like

Deep Waters: "GotQ applies an absorb shield on party for 100% of the amount that it heals"

... and maybe also add

"as well as an extra 50% absorb on targets with Riptide."


Something like that. This would basically be similar to a double gift of the queen, but as absorb instead, and since u normally have riptide on the tank they would get an absorb for 150% instead of just 100%... or if you are more worried about yourself surviving some big attack, use Riptide on yourself before using GotQ so you get the extra absorb.


The point about cloudburst is true and will prob give this trait good synergy with it, but not everyone uses that talent for all situations. I agree with people who say that critics get too caught up in the healing meters.... heal numbers aren't everything, healing a priority (low hp) target can make a bigger difference then just more healing output and our mastery makes sure we can always be effective when people are at low levels.... if they aren't and its like a farm raid instead of progression it really doesn't matter how much or how little we heal. That said tho, we do tend to lean more toward raid heals instead of tank/single target heals. Its true that for M+ and stuff you can play a totally different build that is more HS/HW and not much CHL, which is awesome to have two diff effective builds, but I would have liked to see one new raid heal trait (which we got with healing rain one) and then one more tank heal trait, instead of 2 group heal traits.

I also don't like the SWG trait either. It should buff heals while active too.... so like "Increase duration by 2sec and healing by 2.5%" per point, so for 4 total it would be +8sec duration and +10% healing when SWG is active.

[Deleted]

I also don't like the SWG trait either. It should buff heals while active too.... so like "Increase duration by 2sec and healing by 2.5%" per point, so for 4 total it would be +8sec duration and +10% healing when SWG is active.

This is just a bad idea, we had simliar effects with the t13 and t16 (I think) set boni and it sucked. Spiritwalker's grace became another throughput cooldown and you could not use it for its intended purpose (as a movement cd) most of the time. At times this gutted your movement pretty hard, as you needed the cd at a different time in the encounter.

While i agree shaman's throughput could use a buff, please let it be in any other form.

[Nyel]

Pretty funny to read this thread when (more than useful) RShamans are calling for buffs while Mistweaver Monks are useless since Legion.

[Deleted]

Pretty funny to read this thread when (more than useful) RShamans are calling for buffs while Mistweaver Monks are useless since Legion.

So just because there is a homeless person standing in the rain I cannot do something about my flooded basement?
Yes the other floors are still useable and its a far cry from being homeless, but the basement is still underwater.

[Nyel]

So just because there is a homeless person standing in the rain I cannot do something about my flooded basement?
Yes the other floors are still useable and its a far cry from being homeless, but the basement is still underwater.

Resto Shamans are one of the best healers in Legion. While their toolkit might be a bit underwhelming their cooldowns are not. No other class has so powerful / useful cooldowns. Monk has one pretty bad raid wide instant heal (getting buffed in 7.2 through the artifact) and that's it. No utility, a good toolkit for healing but massive mana costs (the biggest let down of the class) and nothing you really need - that's why there's literally no Mistweaver in any competitive Mythic guild. You don't need them because they're useless. RShamans aren't. They're good. Great. Even if they could benefit from some adjustments they actually don't need them to shine.

[Huanak]

Do anyone notice resto have LOTS of very good 3/3 traits? Now you can upgrade them to 4/4 which is huge buff.

Anyway resto is top 3 healers for "Need" in mythic raid, and you dont need priest/monk.

[Tehterokkar]

Shaman has the best raid CD in the game, and that earns them raid spots in every top guild.

Spirit Link Totem is so broken beyond belief, I can clearly understand why Blizzard removed the 2nd charge option with Legion.

It also does some..... questionable.... effects when DH ability Darkness is dropped on top of it.

Just go and browse wowprogress for gul'dan first kill comps. ALL OF THEM have a Resto Shaman.

[Nythiz]

I don't know.

Crying we're doomed is the exact same thing that happened right before nighthold as well, because shamans were a good 10% behind other healers. But every major progression guild claimed that Resto shamans were by far the best healers to bring along. And yes, SLT plays a huge role in that, but it's far from the only thing.

HPS is a real difficult metric to go by, and fact is that shamans have some of the best abiltiies for raiding (especially progression).

For PvE the +30% healing rain output traits isn't bad. The new golden trait is maybe slightly lackluster, but it's not super bad. GotQ generally parses between 3 to 5% of total healing done. With CBT it's responsible for a good deal more. If you double that, you're looking at a significant HPS increase.

I think shamans got shafted on their traits for PvP and M+ though. Nothing of the new traits is any good for those; whereas other healers got something that is useful in nearly every scenario.

[Gunwolf]

This is just a bad idea, we had simliar effects with the t13 and t16 (I think) set boni and it sucked. Spiritwalker's grace became another throughput cooldown and you could not use it for its intended purpose (as a movement cd) most of the time. At times this gutted your movement pretty hard, as you needed the cd at a different time in the encounter.

While i agree shaman's throughput could use a buff, please let it be in any other form.

Hmm... I suppose you have a point. Tho I am not sure if people would waste their SWG for some bonus healing... its only 10%, can get more just from stuff like tidal waves, or with unleash life talent. Maybe if there is a boss fight where u don't need to heal on the move, but if it is a fight with mechanics like the big laser on Trilliax then it would almost certainly be better to save SWG for that movement part then waste it as a throughput cd. Not sure what the alternative would be either.... we already have a talent to reduce the CD of SWG as well as increase our run speed during it, so +heals seems like only other obvious choice. Longer duration just seems boring to me, I dunno.

Resto Shamans are one of the best healers in Legion. While their toolkit might be a bit underwhelming their cooldowns are not. No other class has so powerful / useful cooldowns. Monk has one pretty bad raid wide instant heal (getting buffed in 7.2 through the artifact) and that's it. No utility, a good toolkit for healing but massive mana costs (the biggest let down of the class) and nothing you really need - that's why there's literally no Mistweaver in any competitive Mythic guild. You don't need them because they're useless. RShamans aren't. They're good. Great. Even if they could benefit from some adjustments they actually don't need them to shine.

Well I'd agree with you.... I'm not the OP, so I think Resto is in a good spot. Too many people make the mistake of looking at healing meters like they do with dps meters. Resto shaman is a solid healer with some nice cds' and utility... like I love how we kept our interrupt wind shear, its a signature shaman spell and useful as a healer. That said... I can still criticize the new artifact traits for being boring and uninspired, esp the absorb thing since it was something we were getting in an earlier build.

As for MW Monk.... I'm not sure why you are complaining about monks in the shaman forum. Most resto don't think we are bad or need huge buffs or anything... and hatin on us won't help monks improve. Monks do seem uncommon but I don't know much about em honestly.... it may be that they are alright, just that other healers like druid/pally/shammy are more popular since monks in general are least played class. The MW Monk is supposed to be real good in PVP too, so they do have representation somewhere. They have great mobility, some useful cd's like leg sweep, cocoon, and revival... and seems like u can do some cool stuff with that thunder focus tea. Looks fun to play atleast.

I have heard the mana issues problem mentioned often by other mw monks too so that is prob something they could work on. I remember in the past their mana management was supposed to be more involved with those teas, but I guess they tried to simplify that and just not there yet. I'm checking the guide and I like how u can fistweave to save on mana.

Not sure what is their issue... or even what their niche is. Hpally is typically tank healer, druid and shammy are raid heals, and priest is like all rounder. I assume monk is similar to priest that way, seems they would do good in M+ esp with the mobility and stuff like leg sweep but I almost never see them.

[Sageless]

Resto Shamans are one of the best healers in Legion.

I think you confuse best with most useful. Shaman are a relic of previous expansions where you brought a shadowpriest for the mana return, or a retribution paladin, even if they did less dps. Ever wondered why when people ask what healer they should roll for their healing team the answer always is not a resto shaman if there is one already? It's because having two is just plain awefull.
While even with the upcoming relative nerf in 7.2 shaman will still be brought, if you care anything about numbers or doing something useful on farm bosses (aka 50% of your total raid time) it is not fun to play a class that will be kept down by 10 to 20% only because they have an incredible cooldown (SLT).

I think it also is the mindset of a player. I personally like to get the most out of the character I play and see that have effect. As a resto shaman you can play better or worse and the effect will be way less than the way your fellow healers are doing. While this is also true for other healers, the degree is a lot lower.

Our mastery does not help in this regard since technically it is very good, but quite often it does close to nothing.
I know this is supposed to be the strength of a shaman, but even on fights where we can make good use of it we don't really shine.
I guess I just miss a niche in which we shine in numbers as well, as currently we are dead last on pretty much every fight that has enough logs to give a decent bell curve.

[Nyel]

Well I'd agree with you.... I'm not the OP, so I think Resto is in a good spot. Too many people make the mistake of looking at healing meters like they do with dps meters. Resto shaman is a solid healer with some nice cds' and utility... like I love how we kept our interrupt wind shear, its a signature shaman spell and useful as a healer. That said... I can still criticize the new artifact traits for being boring and uninspired, esp the absorb thing since it was something we were getting in an earlier build.

As for MW Monk.... I'm not sure why you are complaining about monks in the shaman forum. Most resto don't think we are bad or need huge buffs or anything... and hatin on us won't help monks improve. Monks do seem uncommon but I don't know much about em honestly.... it may be that they are alright, just that other healers like druid/pally/shammy are more popular since monks in general are least played class. The MW Monk is supposed to be real good in PVP too, so they do have representation somewhere. They have great mobility, some useful cd's like leg sweep, cocoon, and revival... and seems like u can do some cool stuff with that thunder focus tea. Looks fun to play atleast.

I have heard the mana issues problem mentioned often by other mw monks too so that is prob something they could work on. I remember in the past their mana management was supposed to be more involved with those teas, but I guess they tried to simplify that and just not there yet. I'm checking the guide and I like how u can fistweave to save on mana.

Not sure what is their issue... or even what their niche is. Hpally is typically tank healer, druid and shammy are raid heals, and priest is like all rounder. I assume monk is similar to priest that way, seems they would do good in M+ esp with the mobility and stuff like leg sweep but I almost never see them.

I am playing Mistweaver and RShaman simultaneously, that's why I'm here (and there). I did not want to complain (and I am not hating on Shamans, my RShaman was my first ever healer created during TBC in 2007, it's my favorite character after all), I just wanted to voice my feelings regarding a "RShaman buff" or something like that (when there is a dire need for a MW buff). Nowadays I am playing my RShaman more because it's just more useful than MW and in the end better. That's pretty sad because I think Shaman gameplay is pretty boring and MW gameplay pretty fun but... it is how it is right now. I agree that RShaman could need some kind of "toolkit overhaul" but that's it. Output is fine when we think about the amazing CDs we have.

Yes, Monks and especially Mistweaver Monks are very uncommon (MW is the least played spec in WoW) and a reason for that is their "uselessness". Their toolkit is strong but they are limited by their mana costs and their underwhelming raid CD. Monks are not just unpopular because they're Monks but because they're pretty underwhelming. You just need to check Mythic fights and see how many MW Monks are a) logged and b) existing. The number is tiny. I heard MW is strong in PvP but that's none of my business so I can't tell.

Mistweaver Monks get a trait in 7.2 just to "buff" our artifact skill. And our golden trait is another "buff" to our artifact skill. I mean Shamans get the 30% more healing for Healing Rain (I think that's awesome) and some kind of "okay" golden trait while MW get two traits improving the really bad artifact skill and one trait that decreases the CD of our pretty underwhelming raid cooldown by 40sec (yes, that is amazing).

To be honest I think both, MW and RShaman should get better traits with 7.2. I think both of them get pretty underwhelming new traits. I didn't want to hijack this thread and brag about MW, sorry.