Just when you thought it could not get worse. CBO report #2 out.

[Felya]

Lol playing the victim card early today already.

last time I checked you can can essentially go to a trade school or community college for free via Pell Grants / FSEOG Grants if you are that fricking poor.

YOU CHOOSE YOUR OWN DESTINY.

Victim card doesn't work, when you are talking about healthcare. You cannot win arguments, by pretending the outcome is someone being protected from harm... when you are arguing against universal healthcare...

Choose your own destiny? You are not the protagonist of this movie... you are not the special snowflake...

[Dizzeeyooo]

I am not sure how you berni-bots/bros are pumping your chest about how the ACA was great, when literally all it took was removing a mandate that forced (aka theft) people to either pay into or get taxed for , to make it crumble...

basically saying that if you remove the foundations/ground floor of a building, and then the rest of the building collapses, then it was a shit building to begin with because any proper building should be able to levitate from the first floor upwards

[Machismo]

Then your issue isn't single payer or universal coverage? You are being very confusing...

I have a problem with people being forced to pay for something they do not want to pay for. In the case of the ACA, it was people being forced to buy insurance they did not want.

[prwraith]

I GET HOW INSURANCE WORKS. I do not support forcing people to pay for insurance against their will. On that note, if they choose to not have insurance, they are also responsible for any consequences of that choice. I'm simply choosing to not throw more people into those pools against their will.

So then you don't understand that having the financial ability to purchase insurance, isn't always a choice?

Because it's pretty clear that you're not understanding some basic facts of life.

[Machismo]

.....I can't even. Do you not understand what the direct result of a government collapsing is? You can't honestly be serious in not being able to follow that thought through to completion.

If the federal government was half the size that it is, I'd be happy. If it were a quarter the size, I would be ecstatic.

[Adp]

nor should they be forced to pay for the insurance of others.

No. You don't understand. Insurance companies don't just collect your monthly payment and store it away just for you when you need it. Other people's payments are pooled in order to pay the bills of people who are sick now. By buying insurance you are paying for other people's insurance when it is in use.

From what I gathered by your previous posts. In order to truly be consistent in your worldview you would need to get off the grid, leave america and live in some remote land with no assistance.

[Machismo]

Ya the whole "Pick yourself up by ur boot straps" shit doesn't work champ.

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And yet you do daily...

How do I support such things?

[schwarzkopf]

I have a problem with people being forced to pay for something they do not want to pay for

Well, no - you only have a problem being forced to pay $4/day to save human lives... you seem to be quite happy to continue to use the internet, even after having said you'd be ok to stop using it.

[stabetha]

For your benefit : an act of causing death

if some dies of cancer it was the cancer that killed them not me because I didn't pay for their treatment.

[Tehshocka]

Insurance cost can be reduced by getting the ridiculous cost of doing business in hospitals to go down. However, that's an entire different discussion.

[Machismo]

So, you don't want it under government control - you don't want it under corporate control... who the hell is meant to be running this health care system of yours?

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Humanity values human life, not money... just saying.

If you don't feel that paying $4/day(*if you can afford it) to ensure everyone has primary health care, then that's a big issue.

Actually, I want it under consumer control. I want it to be a voluntary transaction between two entities. No government would be required.

[Jtbrig7390]

How do I support such things?

Enjoy the water you drink? The roads you drive on.

All government funded via tax's champ.

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Insurance cost can be reduced by getting the ridiculous cost of doing business in hospitals to go down. However, that's an entire different discussion.

And you can't do that without the Government stepping in because its a free market.

[schwarzkopf]

If the federal government was half the size that it is, I'd be happy. If it were a quarter the size, I would be ecstatic.

Cool - so step 1 - universal health care, saving $1.5 trillion a year ...
Cool - so step 2, reduce the military budget by half - saving OMG, only $0.3 billion a year.

[Felya]

I have a problem with people being forced to pay for something they do not want to pay for. In the case of the ACA, it was people being forced to buy insurance they did not want.

Then you don't mean to argue against universal coverage? You are being very confusing... neither this, nor ACA were universal coverage... and this would make the situation worse for America as a whole. Not you as an individual, because at 38 years old, nothing bad can ever happen to your health. This is federal policy, for all Americans... not you as an individual... not you as a protagonist of some move... not you as some special snowflake... but, Americans...

[Machismo]

So then you don't understand that having the financial ability to purchase insurance, isn't always a choice?

Because it's pretty clear that you're not understanding some basic facts of life.

I understand just fine. I've been poor, it fucking sucks. That doesn't mean I should be able to forcefully take money from others in order to be less poor, does it?

[schwarzkopf]

Actually, I want it under consumer control.

Oh dear ... so consumers will get together in little bands of a few hundred people and convert a basement to a hospital.

Sounds AWESOME.

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I understand just fine. I've been poor, it fucking sucks.

Do you feel you deserved to die whilst you were poor ?

[Machismo]

No. You don't understand. Insurance companies don't just collect your monthly payment and store it away just for you when you need it. Other people's payments are pooled in order to pay the bills of people who are sick now. By buying insurance you are paying for other people's insurance when it is in use.

From what I gathered by your previous posts. In order to truly be consistent in your worldview you would need to get off the grid, leave america and live in some remote land with no assistance.

But, in regards to normal insurance, everyone is in that pool willingly. The ACA forced people into those pools against their will.

[schwarzkopf]

That doesn't mean I should be able to forcefully take money from others in order to be less poor, does it?

You have already shown that you are only against having your money forcefully taken for saving lives... other things you are ok with.

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But, in regards to normal insurance, everyone is in that pool willingly.

In every other kind of insurance, you volunteer to have something to insure...

[Machismo]

Well, no - you only have a problem being forced to pay $4/day to save human lives... you seem to be quite happy to continue to use the internet, even after having said you'd be ok to stop using it.

Actually, I have a problem with everyone being forced to pay, not just me. The threat of force is the issue.

As for the internet, I pay for it. I pay a private company to provide such a service, and I do so willingly.

[Endus]

I have a problem with people being forced to pay for something they do not want to pay for. In the case of the ACA, it was people being forced to buy insurance they did not want.

Taking these two sentences separately, are you arguing that a tax-based universal healthcare system is "bad"? Because it's more cost-effective than the American system. See basically any other developed nation. And taking issue with this on the grounds that you're "forced to pay" is like arguing against the concept of police forces, or roadways. You're never going to convince anyone, because society is fundamentally based on such services.

While I can understand opposing the obligation to make people purchase a product (insurance) they don't want, the reason the ACA went that route was an attempt to compromise with the Republicans and create a bill that could enjoy bipartisan support. Pretty much everyone involved knew it was a crappy compromise. They didn't predict the blind partisanship of the Republicans, breaking with history; they should have just pushed through a single-payer system from the get-go.

But this is all reason to reform and expand the ACA into such a single-payer system, to eliminate those issues and streamline everything. Not to scrap the whole thing and leave 24 million people without coverage.