Will the UK be weaker or stronger once out of EU???

[Activi-T]

I'm not sure exactly why you think Germany* proper has any inclination to give you a good deal after all the bullshit your country has been pulling.

You matter insofar as the finance sector views London as a desirable location, that's all.

I fixed your posts because in the end Germany is the only country that matters in the EU. Would you like to give me some examples of our "bullshit" you'd like me to address?

[Slant]

2016 GDP in billions of USD;
Greece: 194.594
Switzerland: 651.770
UK: 2649.893

To even pretend that those countries are comparable is absurd. Not to mention the fact that the UK is also a major contributor in intelligence and military matters. Your examples are laughable to be honest. The UK will get a better deal because, and I mean no disrespect to the people of Greece and Switzerland, we matter more on the world stage.

Are you sure? The EU pretty much canned the TTIP negotiations at this stage. The EU unilaterally cancelled the data transfer agreement with the US. The EU is very much based on principles that they won't budge from. Be it the US, Greece or a country that still acts as if it owned half the globe.

GDP doesn't change that. Military importance and intelligence certainly doesn't affect it, at all. Countries are not members of the EU for military reasons, they're members for economic reasons, perhaps even political. But military? Way down in the list of priorities when we're part of NATO anyway. And as the UK will find out, the EU is quite capable of judging negotiations economically and not getting fucked over by smaller trade partners. Certainly nobody from outside the EU ever managed to convince them that giving up a core EU principle would be a splendid idea.

[Elegiac]

I fixed your posts because in the end Germany is the only country that matters in the EU. Would you like to give me some examples of our "bullshit" you'd like me to address?

What, you mean aside from threatening the integrity of the EU because idiots in Chomping Frenum don't like the kebab shop?

[Slant]

I fixed your posts because in the end Germany is the only country that matters in the EU. Would you like to give me some examples of our "bullshit" you'd like me to address?

Lucky for everyone else that in this particular matter, Germany will absolutely put the EU's interest first. Because to every chancellor we had, the EU is a fundamental part of our mission statement. And this is me ignoring the bullshit that Germany is the only country that matters. It's not. Fucking Finland matters just about as much as Germany does. Greece matters as much as Germany does. The EU does many things wrong, but ignoring smaller members is not one of them. And the EU really, really likes to do things so that everyone can agree with them. Germany does certainly not always get its wishes fulfilled.

[Activi-T]

Are you sure? The EU pretty much canned the TTIP negotiations at this stage. The EU unilaterally cancelled the data transfer agreement with the US. The EU is very much based on principles that they won't budge from. Be it the US, Greece or a country that still acts as if it owned half the globe.

GDP doesn't change that. Military importance and intelligence certainly doesn't affect it, at all. Countries are not members of the EU for military reasons, they're members for economic reasons, perhaps even political. But military? Way down in the list of priorities when we're part of NATO anyway. And as the UK will find out, the EU is quite capable of judging negotiations economically and not getting fucked over by smaller trade partners. Certainly nobody from outside the EU ever managed to convince them that giving up a core EU principle would be a splendid idea.

Yes those European principles of free movement sure held strong when the migrant crisis started. We didn't see member states throwing up barbed wire fences on their borders or setting up camps on islands to keep them from the mainland

as you rightly state members are part of the EU for economic reasons, the fact that the UK economy and individual economies in the EU are tied to each other (German car manufacturers for example, don't they have an election soon in Germany) is the reason why what I said will hold true. It's not in your interest or ours to walk out without doing a trade deal in place. How much shock do you think the Euro can take?

[Elegiac]

Yes those European principles of free movement sure held strong when the migrant crisis started. We didn't see member states throwing up barbed wire fences on their borders or setting up camps on islands to keep them from the mainland

Yeah, I wonder why the EU government which is incapable of setting up its own border controls on the periphery would have trouble controlling immigration.

as you rightly state members are part of the EU for economic reasons, the fact that the UK economy and individual economies in the EU are tied to each other (German car manufacturers for example, don't they have an election soon in Germany) is the reason why what I said will hold true. It's not in your interest or ours to walk out without doing a trade deal in place. How much shock do you think the Euro can take?

Once you are out, your bargaining position versus Germany's is dramatically decreased. So the deal you get will not be favorable to you.

Then again, at this rate the UK is going to end up as an economic appendage of the US or China.

[Heladys]

Weaker, obviously. I get wanting to renegotiate, but the idea that the deals would necessarily be better is delusional fiction.

[Mehrunes]

Yes those European principles of free movement sure held strong when the migrant crisis started. We didn't see member states throwing up barbed wire fences on their borders or setting up camps on islands to keep them from the mainland

The principle of free movement applies only to EU nationals and nothing happened to their freedom of movement during the migrant crisis.

[Noradin]

2016 GDP in billions of USD;
Greece: 194.594
Switzerland: 651.770
UK: 2649.893

To even pretend that those countries are comparable is absurd. Not to mention the fact that the UK is also a major contributor in intelligence and military matters. Your examples are laughable to be honest. The UK will get a better deal because, and I mean no disrespect to the people of Greece and Switzerland, we matter more on the world stage.

So comparing Switzerland and the Uk is absurd?
Be sure to tell everyone here who brings up Switzerland as an example for how the UK could approach this.
Also, how about the USA and China. Those comparisons are just as absurd, right (just in the other direction)?
Guess what the EU says when those try to make them break core principles...? No. That's what.

[Slant]

Yes those European principles of free movement sure held strong when the migrant crisis started. We didn't see member states throwing up barbed wire fences on their borders or setting up camps on islands to keep them from the mainland

as you rightly state members are part of the EU for economic reasons, the fact that the UK economy and individual economies in the EU are tied to each other (German car manufacturers for example, don't they have an election soon in Germany) is the reason why what I said will hold true. It's not in your interest or ours to walk out without doing a trade deal in place. How much shock do you think the Euro can take?

Part of freedom of movement is the caveat that countries can still throw up temporary border controls, as Austria did for the Euro football championship. So this is not unheard of and it's also quite accepted that this limitation exists. Do you see why England, having actual border controls still, is looking like a fool? They have actual border controls, permanently and they're opting out of the EU and try to implement border controls they already have.

But to get access to the single market, they would have to accept completely free movement and give up the permanent border control they now have. AND they pay more for that, too. Do you understand why we're thinking the Brexit to be utterly idiotic?

[FluFF]

Personally, I think Brexit was a stupid move. UK got many perks out of its special status with the EU which many other EU members don't enjoy

So much this lol, they had all the EU benefits while rejecting the Euro as currency, they never joined Schengen so you had passport checks between the UK and the mainland and meanwhile they had the free single market and their UK people could live and work where ever they wanted in the EU.

Meanwhile when you read some Brexit posts of normal people who voted you would think they miss a braincell or 500, some talk as if they never had any sort of benefit from being in EU and that they were held prisoner on all levels, meanwhile rejecting all the EU things mentioned above like the currency and the free Schengen zone.

Though to be fair it was clear already for years that they wouldn't be happy with anything less then living in their own world cut off from the EU, just a shame to see so many Brexit knobheads post blatent lies about how they never had any sort of benefit or special treatment, some do really have a world of their own in their mind about the UK and sadly followed that when voting, you would think it is almost as brain dead as a whole country following a dictator in the past, but then being played off in their minds.

[Kellhound]

It will be both, it depends on what you are talking about. Its influence in Europe will drop, but its independent international affairs will be stronger where they dont align with EU views (for example).

[Acidbaron]

They need to pass over 100 deals per day to meet the 2 year deadline since this is unprecedented. I think financially long term not that much will change since we need each other politically it will be a loss since the UK like fex Norway will need to adjust to Europe laws and regulations.

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To add the vote for an exit has more to do with national politics than Europe politics. The EU suffers from a problem of getting information of what they do to the common man I can speak of several benefits in the EU where plenty are clueless about. The question regarding trade also isn't so much of that between EU States but that between Juggernauts like China and the US can they really hold back certain things like flooding their market with cheaper products where the national companies can't compete with I have serious doubts about that

[Noradin]

But to get access to the single market, they would have to accept completely free movement and give up the permanent border control they now have. AND they pay more for that, too. Do you understand why we're thinking the Brexit to be utterly idiotic?

Yes, basically the things they were most vocal about getting back from the EU were things they had but will have to give up when they leave if they want to keep the benefits they cry for.
The whole leave campain had it obviously backwards and people still buyed their claims and repeat them even now.