Playtonic to ditch JonTron from Yooka-Laylee following anti-immigrant comments

[Kolvarg]

Meanwhile there's the likes of me going "who the fuck is JonTron?"

Instead of leaving off with such a bland, unoriginal reply, if I've learned anything observing game streamers/Youtubers, you simply leave anything political at the door. Generally speaking, any audience of such a person is not there for political soapbox commentary. It's an all encompassing street, too; doesn't matter what end of the political spectrum you're on...the general audience is there to see whatever game you're playing, whether it's for the purpose of review, a skill/achievement, or whatever, and they'd prefer their streamers to have more personality than a stick in mud.

I agree, although I would say the same for Playtonic and their game. There was nothing political, moral or ethical involved with letting his work stay in the game, especially considered this only happened after he already had recorded the lines. It only became political because they took a stance on it.

Did you actually read their statement? Ever think that maybe they just don't want any sort of racism and bigotry near their game because they care about it?

How exactly would there be any racism and bigotry in the game because of something JonTron said somewhere else? Even if he is indeed racist and a bigot, does that mean EVERYTHING he might do or say will always be racism and bigotry? And also it applies retroactively? Because now he is apparently a racist, everyhing he ever said is racist?

If there are racists in this forum, does that mean by continuing to visit it you are associating with racists and therefore you approve racism? Yea, wonderful logic isn't it?

People talk about "racists" like they're all insane people just one step away from starting ethnic cleasings.

Guess what, the majority of people are at least a bit racist by the definition so loosely applied today. We all have prejudices and misconceptions. We should judge people on what they do, not on what they think. And Jon isn't even racist to begin with. He's just a misinformed twat with his own misconceptions that went completly unprepared and with a "casual chat" attitude into a debate with someone that thrives on drama.

His claims are not even on race specifically, just that people should be able to speak their mind, even if it's bullshit, without being instantly shunned by society and judged and trialed by the social inquisition. His comments were more about the hipocrisy of people who push race stuff than actual opinions based on race.

[Edge-]

How exactly would there be any racism and bigotry in the game because of something JonTron said somewhere else? Even if he is indeed racist and a bigot, does that mean EVERYTHING he might do or say will always be racism and bigotry? And also it applies retroactively? Because now he is apparently a racist, everyhing he ever said is racist?

Sorta. Once you get that brand, deserved or not, you become toxic as a whole. It's damn hard to separate yourself from it once its there, and JonTron walked right into it by saying a whole lot of stupid shit.

So yes, even if all he did was make strange mumbling sounds in-game, his association with the game brings with it the baggage of his recent controversy. That how this shit works, yo.

If there are racists in this forum, does that mean by continuing to visit it you are associating with racists and therefore you approve racism? Yea, wonderful logic isn't it?

Not remotely the same, as we're not people paid to do work on this forums (mods or users), and that kind of behavior is explicitly against the rules. The comparison isn't remotely accurate.

People talk about "racists" like they're insane people just one step away from starting ethnic cleasings.

Or, like they're fucking assholes that normal folks want nothing to do with. That too.

Guess what, the majority of people are racist by the definition so loosely applied today. We all have prejudices and misconceptions. We should judge people on what they do, not on what they think. And Jon isn't even racist to begin with. He's just a misinformed twat with his own misconceptions that went completly unprepared into a debate with someone that thrives on drama thinking with a "casual chat" attitude.

His misinformation caused him to spew racist nonsense, that's his problem, not ours.

[draykorinee]

But he was unprepared guys!!!

[Kolvarg]

Sorta. Once you get that brand, deserved or not, you become toxic as a whole. It's damn hard to separate yourself from it once its there, and JonTron walked right into it by saying a whole lot of stupid shit.

And how is that ok? I'm pretty sure most advanced countries have policies to avoid discrimination and promote re-integration of ex-criminals. You know, people who actually did illegal and harmful acts, instead of just saying "offensive" things on the internet. And yet we want to promote a culture where people arbitrarily determine what is or not acceptable to say, and anyone who steps outside that line is branded and seen as toxic and shuned by society indefinitely? Sounds pretty backwards to me, in fact it reminds me a lot of the older conservative and religous people in smaller villages in my country.

I find this wohle buisiness absolutely immature (and yes, I also do find it immature that people are canceling pre-orders because of this, or that some people are blaming Andromeda's flaws on SJWs). While obviously it's ok to want to surround yourself with people who you believe are good, there's nothing wrong with working professionally with someone you don't think is good or even like, nor does it mean that you agree with everything they might say or do just because you don't dig a bloody moat between you and them.

One thing would be if this had happened before they invited him, and that decided not to work with him because they don't like him: That would be fine. But cancelling what they'd already done because meanwhile he said something "offensive" is absolute bullshit, in my opinion.

Not remotely the same, as we're not people paid to do work on this forums (mods or users), and that kind of behavior is explicitly against the rules. The comparison isn't remotely accurate.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't paid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they simply invited him to voice the character, not hired him.

Even if he was hired. Politics and professional life in most cases are and should be separate. His views on race and immigrants are (or perhaps, should be) irrelevant to voicing a character in a game).

Or, like they're fucking assholes that normal folks want nothing to do with. That too.

Or, like they're fucking assholes that normal folks want nothing to do with. That too.
His misinformation caused him to spew racist nonsense, that's his problem, not ours.

I sincerely doubt there's anyone in this planet that hasn't in the past year had a thought that I couldn't somehow deconstruct as "racist", considering how loosely the term is applied today.

If you disapprove so strongly of "racism" that you avoid buying a game because a "racist" voiced a minor character, you should probably go live in the wilds. Your house/apartment might have been built by a racist, and you want nothing do to with them - right? Why would you enjoy the results of the labour of a racist unless you're one yourself?

I'd like it if you could give me examples on how JonTron is racist, and how his comments resulted in any harm towards said "races" he was racist agaisnt.

I'm not saying his misnformation is our problem. I'm saying this social correctness "witch-hunt" trend is absolutely insane and much much more harmful than the "racism" it is supposedly fighting. Why should it be ok to judge an entire person indefenitely based on a few remakrs? Why should it be ok to just label said person as "bad" even if said person tries to explain and show that he had no ill intention? Why are words and thoughts being valued as more important than actions? It's like the internet turned into highscool.

Seriously, it's time to stop validating this nonsense. I bet almost every single one of the people calling him a racist haven't even watched the debate or read his opinions. They just read it on some online tabloid and since it is on the internet it must be true, same shit that happened with PewDiePie.

These people aren't doing this because they want to actually do anything agaisnt real racism or because they don't want to "associate" with bad people. They're doing it because the internet (and themselves) is hungry for drama. They're doing it because judging people they perceieve as "bad" makes them feel "good". It really is absolute nonsense.

[Kazgrel]

I agree, although I would say the same for Playtonic and their game. There was nothing political, moral or ethical involved with letting his work stay in the game, especially considered this only happened after he already had recorded the lines. It only became political because they took a stance on it.

Their game, so they can do what they want, which it appears they no longer want this guy associated with them in any way, shape, form. It does serve to fan the flames of the current fire a bit moreso, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Its why GradeAunderA who was a very popular guy for a while is kinda falling out of favor. He got all political

Never heard of that one, either.

[GennGreymane]

Their game, so they can do what they want, which it appears they no longer want this guy associated with them in any way, shape, form. It does serve to fan the flames of the current fire a bit moreso, though.

- - - Updated - - -



Never heard of that one, either.

Oh okay :P he was very funny... eventually he became preachy

[Kazgrel]

Oh okay :P he was very funny... eventually he became preachy

All good; for this thread, my screen name should be Out of the Loop.

[Kolvarg]

Their game, so they can do what they want, which it appears they no longer want this guy associated with them in any way, shape, form. It does serve to fan the flames of the current fire a bit moreso, though.

Not claiming otherwise =P Just saying they'll probably get a lot more backlash and controversy from taking a stance than from not doing anyhting about it and not comenting on it.

[Deleted]

Those gosh dang half Iranian half Hungarian white supremacists...

I also saw a summary on reddit on the stuff that caused the controversy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonTron/com...what_jon_said/

He revealed his power level (IE: Not being a true leftist)
He called Hillary Supporters cultists for the shenanigans they do like the HeWillNotDivideUs project, preaching "you are perpetuating systems of hatred", etc.
He said a lot of liberals aren't like the SJW's but there's enough where it's a problem. The few that exist are extremely dedicated and that they use fear tactics to force others to agree with them (IE: They will get you fired)
They made fun of Cultural Relativism, main example being the Etoro People
Jon said there is an anti-white narrative in our culture (In politics, in education, in media/entertainment)
Jon agrees with Dr. Layman that the modern left bear a striking resemblance with the communist vanguard.
Jon stated that he "grew up as a liberal" but "at the end of the day, I am probably right of center".
Jon admitted that he has watched Stefan Molyneux.
Jon says he believes the media no longer reports on the truth.
"Hopefully Le Pen wins"
"If germany goes, the whole world will be like fuck it, it's over, Germany's uncucked." - talking about the trend of social justice in culture.
He joked about how Obama has done nothing for race relations and how his farewell speech showed how high and mighty liberal politicians are when the talk about how awful the right are.
He called people that believe Trump is the source social division delusional. For example the 900K people who liked Bernie's tweet that stated: "President Trump, you made a big mistake. By trying to divide us up by race, religion, gender and nationality you actually brought us closer". Jon's response "I can't believe they pin this shit on Trump. These people are truly delusional. They're autistic, they don't make sense. I would respect them if they said 'look at what we're doing' but they don't do that."
"How can you allow people to come to your march saying 'fuck the white male' on a sign and pretend to be on the moral high-ground."
"to all you fucking crazy people, read a fucking book once in awhile instead of putting a vagina on your head and walking in the streets"
They bashed open border policy and its supporters, "Citizenship is not a human right" ... "Have you even read the constitution?"
They discussed how discussing facts about "Syrian" immigrants is now racist, such as the fact that ~80% of them are young single men, rather than the image of families being parroted around. General talk about the immigration crisis in Europe was discussed as well. Crime statistics was the main point since Dr. Layman is from the area affected.
They brought up Donald Trump's promise to improve inner cities, citing the statistic that black communities have a single-parent rate of 70% and that single-parenthood is linked to future economic standing and crime.
They made fun of Van Jone's "Whitelash" comment about Trump's election
They discussed how George Soros is sponsoring Pro-Refugee agendas in Europe, funds Black Lives Matter protests in the US, etc.

I don't see a controversy at all, nor do I see anything irrational. It seems common sense is triggering these day for many special snowflakes.

I dont think the playtonic devs personally disagree with jontron, but they simply want to reduce any potential fallout and shitstorms because they know what kind of irrational loons they are dealing with, and if they let it slide they'd be called all sort of things like racist or nazis in a while despite having nothing to do with it like.

Just look at the whining and bitching that playasia got for doa xtreme 3: https://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/20...live-xtreme-3/


Personally, I think playtonic should do the reverse, and actually stand by it. For every whiny snowflake that decries and gets offended by this, of whom many wouldnt have bought your product anyway, multiple more will support you for actually standing your ground ( as seen with playasia )

[Kazgrel]

Not claiming otherwise =P Just saying they'll probably get a lot more backlash and controversy from taking a stance than from not doing anyhting about it and not comenting on it.

It definitely gets more headlines, for sure...gotta get that free advertisement for their game.

[sarahtasher]

Ah, once again, the good old ''if this is something that I don't care about, it's whiny SJWs, but MY issues are of course important''

Like, it's ''a gud joke'' and ''freedom of speech'' if someone do something that is authorized by alt-right gurus. Like complex ''political opinions'' such as screaming with foam in the mouth that white male ultraconservatives should shot everyone else not obeying them. It's ''racism'' and ''white genocide'' if someone says for instance that it's a getting old to have twenty FPS per year with bald white space marines.

Likewise, if someone complains about a plot point (unless it's Breitbart giving the order to dislike a game because a plot point is against the alt-right gospel), that person is a whiny snowflake. However, complaining and crying over a change to Garrote on rogue is completely legit, since you find it's important.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, usual suspects, I'm sure that the producers of a game with cute 3D animals (while I completely admit that it's aimed also toward Rare nostalgic) are terribly concerned about being boycotted by gun-toting alt-righters. You were obviously the target demographic.

[barackopala]

Yeah if anything playtonic is displaying full on weakness on its reaction to the situation, heck even them claiming "diversity" whilst their team being only white people and 2 females, so much for real diversity as they claim to be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rol3x]

Yet another ridiculous and overblown situation that should have ended with the words "I disagree". the developers have every right to do what they did but it makes them morally repugnant, glad i didn't give them a cent.

[sarahtasher]

People do struggle mightily with the concept ''if my gig is screaming racist insults on YouTube and make my living with it, in 2017, most companies selling other stuff than CSA flags and Nazi cosplay gear will not want to endorse me''

I know it's nearly unfathomable for the usual suspects because they are persuaded that someone shouting with foam in the mouth that Jews are vermin is both an intricate political opinion and ''duh truthz'', but a company making a game about cutesy mammals try to steer away from controversy, presumably because they assume that 4-chan edgelords would only want their game to do slash parodies with it.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, how hard it's to understand ?

In the Deep South of the USA, a businessman could scream at the church that religion is a scam and that everyone that follow it are idiots, but he would lose customers mightily quick.

[Deleted]

i don't see a problem...

if you're in any kind of big business that talks with a big group of people or professional occupation like sports, e-sports, movies etc. you don't get away with endorsing racial slurs and racism, even if it's just a joke... it's bad for the company no matter what

[Fenixhart]

Some people just can't separate a celebrity's view from their work. There is no reason to link them. It's like linking state and church. Companies are way too sensitive to crybaby millenial SJWs.

John Tron's brand is inseparable from his persona because of how personalized it was. You can't really separate yourself from your product when You are the Product.

- - - Updated - - -

i don't see a problem...

if you're in any kind of big business that talks with a big group of people or professional occupation like sports, e-sports, movies etc. you don't get away with endorsing racial slurs and racism, even if it's just a joke... it's bad for the company no matter what

The problem is that people aren't quite grasping that the mythical SJWs aren't just a nebulous inept Cabal with their eyes set on destroying video games but may in fact just be everyday people who have something resembling general sense and empathy and may also happen to be Game Developers.

[unholytestament]

Or they just don't agree with Jon's bullshit.

But the argument I was responding to was people saying that they were doing this to avoid drama.

Do you have anything to say to the effect of the scenario you quoted would probably produce less drama than making a huge proclamation that can and has pissed off many of their paying customers? Because that was my actual argument.

[Niroshi]

And how is that ok? I'm pretty sure most advanced countries have policies to avoid discrimination and promote re-integration of ex-criminals. You know, people who actually did illegal and harmful acts, instead of just saying "offensive" things on the internet. And yet we want to promote a culture where people arbitrarily determine what is or not acceptable to say, and anyone who steps outside that line is branded and seen as toxic and shuned by society indefinitely? Sounds pretty backwards to me, in fact it reminds me a lot of the older conservative and religous people in smaller villages in my country.

It sounds pretty backwards because that's kind of how you framed it to sound. There's no oubliette into which we throw racists or any other ists. People just don't want to associate with those kinds of guys, and they're generally welcomed back into the fold once they quit that life. None of this is arbitrary, collectively the public has a pretty solid and obvious list of things you can't say or joke about without getting disapproval. None of it's random and it is grounded primarily in a desire for people to be seen as equals as well as in an understanding of what is offensive to different groups.

Companies will drop people who start going against this norm. They're highly risk averse, and so they have no interest in even the possibility of losing revenue due to bad PR from someone spouting ignorant shit. Especially some minor internet persona. They aren't there for the politics or anything like that, so there's no reason for them not to bail if they think the costs outweigh the benefits of their business relationships. This is even more important with Millennials than it has been in recent decades because Millennials seem to have long memories on this kind of stuff and will avoid your products based on shit like this.

[Arrashi]

I love how people say that it was great decision from their side and then you look at yooka layle steam page and you see following tags:
- Politics
- Political
- World war 2
- Memes

Not to mention the glorious cesspit that their forums became.

[zito]

I love how people say that it was great decision from their side and then you look at yooka layle steam page and you see following tags:
- Politics
- Political
- World war 2
- Memes

Not to mention the glorious cesspit that their forums became.

Because it's the internet

Jon has like 3 million subs. It only takes 1 of them to spam the crap out of platonic and cause a chain reaction.

Reality is the internet makes things look worse than it is