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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    One of the things that kept me playing GW2 was that there was a vista log that once you got your character in the location to view the vista, it would check it off the box sort of like an achievement.

    Wouldn't it be cool if Blizzard added some sort of achievement that had the player going to hundreds of cool vistas in their next expansion and when flying was obtainable after pathfinder 3.0 the achievement would turn into a feat of strength? (since the obvious ease of just flying to the vista location would kill the whole point of getting to the difficult to reach vista).
    Honestly go check out the Sightseeing Log in FF14 Jay. That's the best example imo. It doesn't tell you where the location is but hints at it. It makes you go out into the world to find it while also solving the hint out. Vistas were good but they were always marked on the map in GW2.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    How does pet battles affect your character or the story?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Is the paper that comes inside a gift bag content?
    Content isn't just things that progress the story. It does progress your character in a way as your pets get stronger and they are a part of your character whether you like it or not. Hell, our pets are even sometimes part of achievements. We killed my poor infinite whelp this week But time went back so he came back

    Imo content is anything that is added to the game with the intent that it can be accessed by the players to partake in any activity or interaction.

  3. #63
    Easily said, content is just stuff to do that is atleast a bit engaging (so I wouldn't count repeatable content or difficulty sliders as extra content, thats just not engaging after the first time). Stuff like quests, raids, dungeons, zones, features, achievements, pet battles, transmogr, battlegrounds/arenas etc are content. It doesn't have to mean that you like every piece of content, but thats not a reason to write it off as not being actual content. WoD heavily lacked in content simply because it lacked anything engaging to do other than raiding.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Hotfixes are not content. It's usually fixing content that already exists. If they added new Timewalking dungeons in during a hotfix then that would be content of course.
    They have added those types of things to patches in the past though lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    No one ever said correcting a tool tip was content. The tool tip for whatever the tool tip was tipping us on was already there, they just made a gramatical correction or mathematical correction.
    Were already on the verge of people saying it is just like they said it was back in Warlords. This guy thinks adding an empty landmass is content, this guy thinks going from a 5hue-255sat to a 5hue-254sat is content.

  5. #65
    Deleted
    Anything that I log into and did not have access to before is new content, this is clear cut to me.

    Clear Cut:
    New quests, new zones, new battlegrounds, new raids etc even reworking an old 5 man say Deadmines is "new content" for me.

    Middle Ground:
    New season of PvP, this is altered by class tuning and new gear, I am not sure this is "new content".

    Questionable:
    Retuning old content lets take Kharazan becoming heroic and M+, I don't think this is "new content" but it certainly is making content available to a diffrent audience.

    I guess in reality, anything that takes development time is "new content" though right?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    They have added those types of things to patches in the past though lol



    Were already on the verge of people saying it is just like they said it was back in Warlords. This guy thinks adding an empty landmass is content, this guy thinks going from a 5hue-255sat to a 5hue-254sat is content.
    Yeah. Hotfix patches can be content patches but most of the time it's not and it's just usually fixing current content.

  7. #67
    After observing the forums for many years, I've come to the conclusion that answering "What is content?" is like being Adam Sandler trying to answer "Who are you?" in Anger Management.

    No, that's not content, it's just a grind/pvp stuff no one cares about/crap for casuals/raiders, etc. No, that's not who you are, it's just your name/hobby/interests/etc.

  8. #68
    Anything you can spend your time doing is content. If you want to spend your time doing it, it becomes *relevant* content.

    So PVP and Pet battles are not relevant content for me, nor are microholidays, but they are content.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    Were already on the verge of people saying it is just like they said it was back in Warlords. This guy thinks adding an empty landmass is content, this guy thinks going from a 5hue-255sat to a 5hue-254sat is content.
    That's what I'm saying, any mounts outside of the race mounts, aren't content. Filler is not content, fluff isn't content.

    Filler;
    Old Raids
    Old Dungeons
    Mounts
    Pets/Pet Battles
    Achievements
    Old Zones

    Fluff;
    Toys
    Transmog


    Mind you. I'm not saying the filler and fluff, isn't neat, engaging or desired. All I'm saying it's not pertinent to the content, the purpose of the game.

    Anime gets a lot of shit for the same logic and reasoning that I am giving. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Filler

    Filler is pointless, but that doesn't mean it's not entertaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  10. #70
    Deleted
    Jayflock: If you kill a raid boss do you seriously do consider the stuff the boss drops as content? .....

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I main a pally, Ive had a class mount since Vanilla. So, that's wrong.
    In context, content generally emcompasses events or actions that provide progression. Figuratively speaking, progress is anything that develops or advances your character, such as story, character development (new gear, new mounts) or general status (reputations). This also broadly applies to collecting items and obtaining achievements. There is no hard definition for progress, since most people will view this term subjectively. Subjective use of Progress does not make it mutually exclusive to all players, so even if you don't PVP it doesn't mean PVP is no longer progression.

    New mounts can be considered content not because of the existence of the mount, but as a part of the act of obtaining/achieving them. If it's something that's just gifted to you for free, then this content is generally seen as trivial, simply as a reward. We tend to attribute this to things like the Anniversary events where everyone's rewarded a new pet straight up. It's technically content, but the content itself is trivial since it requires no action to obtain.

    When we talk about past content, then it's specific to events that involve progression that existed prior to now. When we talk about future content, we talk about future events that involve progression. Systems like battle pets and PVP can be considered content because they provide progression. Jumping and Flying are not considered content, because they do not.

    The definition is also proportionate to the amount of progression each action requires. Professions like picking herbs or making bandages is also content, but since it's seen as a minor contribution to overall progression, new profession content is seen as minor content. In most cases, the general context of "content" relates to anything of substantial progession worth; whether you choose to do them or not. Even if you don't do battle pets, don't PVP or don't raid, we consider it content because it keeps things moving forward.

    Trying to find loopholes in semantics or using technical definitions prove nothing except a clear lack of understanding context of the discussion. Filler is content, fluff is content. They're just not meaningful or lasting content. Obtaining a new mount is content, using a mount you already have is not.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-03-24 at 06:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    Anything you can spend your time doing is content. If you want to spend your time doing it, it becomes *relevant* content.

    So PVP and Pet battles are not relevant content for me, nor are microholidays, but they are content.
    How are pet battles content? They don't, in any meaningful way, contribute to the purpose of Warcraft. It's filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  13. #73
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Jayflock: If you kill a raid boss do you seriously do consider the stuff the boss drops as content? .....
    Was the stuff the boss dropped in the game before?

  14. #74
    Anything you can do in the game is content.

    Adding new rewards to old content however is not new content. It is retreaded content.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    It's not content, it doesn't affect you or the world in any meaningful way.

    Would you be OK, with a "content" patch of just tree, rocks, and water affects? Sorry, no.

    By your logic, the paper that comes inside gift bags is "content" because it's contained in the bag right? It's part of the present... right?
    Yes that is all content, words have meaning. Just because something does not meet arbitrary values prescribed by an individual does make them any more or less content. as for the half assed analogy of "paper in gift bag" it is a content of the bag, the bag is not the present the present is itself another content of the bag.

  16. #76
    I think the problem is that people see the word "content" and don't understand that they're putting too much meaning into it. Literally, content is anything that was added to the game, just like the contents of anything are what is inside it. But that isn't what people tend to mean with the word.

    Typically, people view content as what they can do.
    I think a better venue for this discussion is not about what is and isn't content, but in measuring how long that content takes to consume.

    - Someone who doesn't want to do any PvP would view the relative gain of a new PvP battleground as 0, though that same person should objectively be able to see that the addition of the battleground is not 0. There are people to whom that new addition is relevant. That new battleground could be worth hundreds of hours as content.
    - Similarly, people who don't want to do pet battling see the addition of this new dungeon as 0. In terms of the minutes of content they will enjoy, that's probably true. But the new dungeon is content added to the game: some people, somewhere, will enjoy it at a time investment substantially greater than 0.
    - By this method even a brand new, empty continent is content, though again its measure might be 0... or 5 or however minutes it literally takes to traverse.

    This also explains my own perceived anger toward the upcoming mount announcement. They are definitely adding new content (new quests, new missions, new mounts), but if those things are arbitrarily locked behind time sinks and waiting spells, then that tends to be frustrating to me. A new follower mission may be about a minute of content (how long it takes to logically think through the "who do I send on this now?" process), but if it's timed out as a day-long mission, it is not a day's worth of content. It's still just one minute of content. Even if repeated twenty times, that's still only twenty minutes of content, not twenty days... despite the latter being how long it would take to "complete." The vast disparity between time spent and time waiting is frustrating to a lot of people. If the new mounts took a grind (to exalted) and then 11 days of CONTENT, I think there would be different reactions to what we're seeing.

    Pressing a button once per day, and the decision of whether to push it or not, or in which order to push it, is content. Waiting after all those actions and decisions have been made is not content. And WoW has shifted toward adding artificial and forced waits to try to extend the perceived value of their content instead of adding more actual content. I say shifted because it has been that way for a long time. Daily quests way back when were the start, as is all repeatable content. But lately... it has just been piled on more and more. How do we value content "milking", where we're forced to repeat it? Is that any better than the arbitrary waiting periods?

    This is the kind of discussion I'd rather participate in. /shrug

  17. #77
    Content does include everything that a player can do. But then there is my content - which is stuff I choose to do. Stuff you choose to do will be different than my stuff.

    A while ago I decided to get the Beloved title, and running all those old raids etc. was 'relevant' content for me.

    If I go to a library, I'm going to get a book that I think sounds interesting. What I'm not going to do is ask the librarian to pick a book at random for me. What happens if they return with a book on statistics about 1799 Germany written in German when I can't read German?

  18. #78
    Tell u what I don't consider content. Homogenized gear and a reset AP grind. Pathetic really

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
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    I can tell you what i don't consider as content : Everything included in warlords 2nd major content patch 6.1
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE
    THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Yeah. Hotfix patches can be content patches but most of the time it's not and it's just usually fixing current content.
    An people in the past have defended it as content, just like the 39th Boar recolor and the twitter integration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    That's what I'm saying, any mounts outside of the race mounts, aren't content. Filler is not content, fluff isn't content.

    Filler;
    Old Raids
    Old Dungeons
    Mounts
    Pets/Pet Battles
    Achievements
    Old Zones

    Fluff;
    Toys
    Transmog


    Mind you. I'm not saying the filler and fluff, isn't neat, engaging or desired. All I'm saying it's not pertinent to the content, the purpose of the game.

    Anime gets a lot of shit for the same logic and reasoning that I am giving. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Filler

    Filler is pointless, but that doesn't mean it's not entertaining.
    I remember when TW came out and they argued for days that it was fresh and new content,

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