Comey: Trump Campaign officially under investigation by the FBI

[Elegiac]

Well, to keep it simple. Insurance, pharma, medical facilities, etc should not profit off my health.

As Skroe pointed out, 'universal healthcare' can refer to a lot of different systems - all of which would need to be looked at to see what best fits the country's needs.

Some, like Skroe himself, prefer models like that of Singapore or Japan; basically HSA based but with the caveat of extremely draconian price controls regarding medical equipment and drugs to make them easily affordable. Others, like myself, prefer models like that of Australia and Canada wherein tax levies are used to bankroll a pervasive public option combined with price controls for drugs, meaning a lot of things like routine care and preventative care are of little to no cost to the user. Still others prefer a model like the NHS wherein the entire health system is publicly administered.

But whatever model is selected, you're correct in that there needs to be a major crackdown on the profit gouging of drug and medical equipment manufacturers.

- - - Updated - - -

No it's happening in states like California that is supposedly the golden child for ACA. If you live in SoCal you get the better end of the bargain. If you live in NorCal you pay a lot more. You pretend like it's the same everywhere when it isn't even in the same state. Check some of the states websites and you'll see what I mean. They don't even lie about it. Some uninformed people spread lies but it's that is changed when you see with your own eyes their data. You keep bringing up the tea partiers and I'm anti federalist. If they believed in civil liberties then I'd support them but they like the democrats do not.

Gee, I wonder why people living in primarily rural areas wherein it's not profitable for a multitude of insurance companies to exist might have an issue in a system that depends on market competition to keep prices down.

Either way, it just shows the private sector cannot reasonably handle healthcare in this country by itself.

[Barnabas]

Well, to keep it simple. Insurance, pharma, medical facilities, etc should not profit off my health.

Welcome to america my friend. We profit from your poop that comes out of your butthole. Yes there is profit even in sewage.

[Paranoid Android]

Uh... no. Sorry. Iran Contra was popularity. Bork represented the end of Reagan's ability to press policy. That's why I separated them. Losing 42-58 was a rejection of Reagan who had put his entire political weight behind Bork.

Keep reaching.

- - - Updated - - -



Pharma should. For profit scientific research is wholly legitimate. Government intervention, patent laws and poor regulation retard the effect of cost controls though. Drugs should be cheap. But you should have to pay for them.

Every statistic shows that Pharma spend more on advertising than R&D. So they are basically a marketing company. Yes, I want to the best people as my doctors and researchers so salary is probably going to drive talented people to that field, thus driving up costs in some areas.

I cannot fully cheer lead for the government but again you must admit that Pharma, Insurance and Medical have their influence so much, that is it regulation killing them or them controlling the market, aka crony capitalism. I mean they are some of the most profitable industries out there, so regulation cannot being killing them that much.

- - - Updated - - -

Welcome to america my friend. We profit from your poop that comes out of your butthole. Yes there is profit even in sewage.

Yeah but that is the Republicans mantra to everything. Open up our government to the free market. I mean having some For-profit company run my water and sewage. What could go wrong?

[Barnabas]

As Skroe pointed out, 'universal healthcare' can refer to a lot of different systems - all of which would need to be looked at to see what best fits the country's needs.

Some, like Skroe himself, prefer models like that of Singapore or Japan; basically HSA based but with the caveat of extremely draconian price controls regarding medical equipment and drugs to make them easily affordable. Others, like myself, prefer models like that of Australia and Canada wherein tax levies are used to bankroll a pervasive public option combined with price controls for drugs, meaning a lot of things like routine care and preventative care are of little to no cost to the user. Still others prefer a model like the NHS wherein the entire health system is publicly administered.

But whatever model is selected, you're correct in that there needs to be a major crackdown on the profit gouging of drug and medical equipment manufacturers.

- - - Updated - - -



Gee, I wonder why people living in primarily rural areas wherein it's not profitable for a multitude of insurance companies to exist might have an issue in a system that depends on market competition to keep prices down.

Either way, it just shows the private sector cannot reasonably handle healthcare in this country by itself.

Neither can the federal government when they make insurance a requirement and actually do nothing about the costs. Even in San Francisco it's more. It's not even population either. Pelosi could've instead targeted health providers by putting pressure on them to lower costs but they paid for her re election again. All she gives a fuck about is her seat and promoting the lie called ACA she sponsored.

- - - Updated - - -

Every statistic shows that Pharma spend more on advertising than R&D. So they are basically a marketing company. Yes, I want to the best people as my doctors and researchers so salary is probably going to drive talented people to that field.

I cannot fully cheer lead for the government but again you must admit that Pharma, Insurance and Medical have their influence so much, that is it regulation killing them or them controlling the market, aka crony capitalism. I mean they are some of the most profitable industries out there, so regulation cannot being killing them that much.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah but that is the Republicans mantra to everything. Open up our government to the free market. I mean having some For-profit company run my water and sewage. What could go wrong?

I never said I was against real reforms but ACA isn't real reform with how it's set up. It's a healthcare lobbyists dream with a screaming partisan public to back up the tax they have transformed health insurance into. A lot of people got fooled.

[Skroe]

So in 8 in 10 republicans isn't a majority? That's how many want a repeal. The replace part is secondary and always has been secondary. Again one bad bill doesn't mean the party is over.

Yeah you're just making up shit at this point.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2443

#37 As president, do you think Donald Trump should - support efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, or not?
82% of Republicans favor Trump supporting Repeal
15% appose.

BUT

#38 Do you think President Trump and the Republicans in Congress should repeal all of the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, should repeal parts of the healthcare law but keep other parts, or should not repeal any of the Affordable Care Act?
42% of Republicans say repeal ALL of Obamacare
55% of Republicans say just parts

AND
#39 There is a Republican health care plan to replace Obamacare, known as the American Health Care Act. Do you approve or disapprove of this Republican health care plan?
41% of Republicans approve
24% Dossaprove
35% Dont Know / Not Applicable

AND

#45. If your U.S. Senator or Congressperson votes to replace Obamacare with the Republican health care plan, will that make you more likely to vote for their reelection, less likely to vote for their reelection, or won't it matter much either way?

43% of Republicans say More Likely
10% say less Likely
41% say won't matter.


So yeah. Repeal is certainly desired... though Republicans significantly favored parts over all of it. And Replace, Republicans were split between favoring and not caring.

So clearly your "Just repeal, fuck replace" is Barnabas speaking for Barnabas and a minority of Republicans. And this is EXACTLY what got the party into this mess. Because your position is not THE position. It never has been.

[Elegiac]

Neither can the federal government when they make insurance a requirement and actually do nothing about the costs. Even in San Francisco it's more. It's not even population either. Pelosi could've instead targeted health providers by putting pressure on them to lower costs but they paid for her re election again. All she gives a fuck about is her seat and promoting the lie called ACA she sponsored.

As much as I dislike the corporate cronyism in the Democratic party, I'm going to call bullshit.

For all her faults, Pelosi does genuinely seem to care about healthcare reform - she wouldn't have made as concerted an effort over the course of a year if she didn't. But a lot of the things that have shown themselves to be necessary, namely a public option and pharmaceutical pricing controls, were scuttled by the fact that the ACA had to be made palatable to the Blue Dogs.

But I mean, don't let me get in the way of your bitching about how the Democrats made no cross-ideology compromises and 'forced' the ACA through.

[Paranoid Android]

I never said I was against real reforms but ACA isn't real reform with how it's set up. It's a healthcare lobbyists dream with a screaming partisan public to back up the tax they have transformed health insurance into. A lot of people got fooled.

Here is somewhere when conservatives rail against government and the ACA I can get aboard on. Sadly we let the Insurance and whoever else write or have their say in the ACA. So no surprise they are going to tilt the advantage to them.

When the mandate was first talked about I hated it. I understand the concept, but I knew insurance companies loved that people, young in particular, had to sign up for insurance. I'm sure they hated the pre-existing conditions, but there was enough in there for them to give their stamp of approval.

- - - Updated - - -

So in 8 in 10 republicans isn't a majority? That's how many want a repeal. The replace part is secondary and always has been secondary. Again one bad bill doesn't mean the party is over.

Yeah you're just making up shit at this point.

I'm for chaos. I wanted it repealed. First I think the bill does not go far enough and has many other problems. To be honest, I want all the Trumpkins and Republicans who were on to realize they just lost their insurance. Yes, I want these people to learn the hard way, since it seems that is what it takes.

Edit: Not to be so partisan. I hope all the people who decided not to vote or now signing up for ACA, since it might get repealed get crushed also. Maybe next time involve yourself in the political process.

- - - Updated - - -

As much as I dislike the corporate cronyism in the Democratic party, I'm going to call bullshit.

For all her faults, Pelosi does genuinely seem to care about healthcare reform - she wouldn't have made as concerted an effort over the course of a year if she didn't. But a lot of the things that have shown themselves to be necessary, namely a public option and pharmaceutical pricing controls, were scuttled by the fact that the ACA had to be made palatable to the Blue Dogs.

But I mean, don't let me get in the way of your bitching about how the Democrats made no cross-ideology compromises and 'forced' the ACA through.

Remember it was the Democrats fault back in 2010 when NO Republicans voted for the bill. Now its the Democrats fault in 2017 for none of them voting for this current bill.

[Skroe]

Here is somewhere when conservatives rail against government and the ACA I can get aboard on. Sadly we let the Insurance and whoever else write or have their say in the ACA. So no surprise they are going to tilt the advantage to them.

When the mandate was first talked about I hated it. I understand the concept, but I knew insurance companies loved that people, young in particular, had to sign up for insurance. I'm sure they hated the pre-existing conditions, but there was enough in there for them to give their stamp of approval.

- - - Updated - - -





I'm for chaos. I wanted it repealed. First I think the bill does not go far enough and has many other problems. To be honest, I want all the Trumpkins and Republicans who were on to realize they just lost their insurance. Yes, I want these people to learn the hard way, since it seems that is what it takes.

Chaos isn't responsible. But this is all a modest deal at most. The three headed monster of government finances are Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

I'll say it again, between 2014 and 2016, Medicare grew by around $80 billion. That's adding four whole NASAs ($19 billion per year) to government expenditures in three budget years. Our country could do so much more... not just in space, but infrastructure, education, research, public welfare, if not for that singular all consuming beast.

Healthcare is a right. Healthcare is important But collectively, as it's structured today, it's also the worst thing that's happened to the United States since the Civil War. Obamacare eats up people's spending. Drugs keep people destitute and government assistance drains coffers.

It's truly an abomination. But hey, we got our fucking principles.

[Elegiac]

Chaos isn't responsible. But this is all a modest deal at most. The three headed monster of government finances are Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

I'll say it again, between 2014 and 2016, Medicare grew by around $80 billion. That's adding four whole NASAs ($19 billion per year) to government expenditures in three budget years. Our country could do so much more... not just in space, but infrastructure, education, research, public welfare, if not for that singular all consuming beast.

Healthcare is a right. Healthcare is important But collectively, as it's structured today, it's also the worst thing that's happened to the United States since the Civil War. Obamacare eats up people's spending. Drugs keep people destitute and government assistance drains coffers.

It's truly an abomination. But hey, we got our fucking principles.

We could make it significantly more cost effective by telling for-profit healthcare entities to fuck off and impose price controls.

But hey, Citizens United.

[Paranoid Android]

Yeah I think I derailed this thread too much about healthcare.

@Skroe. Please tell me your thoughts on Devin Nunes?

[Skroe]

Yeah I think I derailed this thread too much about healthcare.

@Skroe. Please tell me your thoughts on Devin Nunes?

His balls are kept in the bottom drawer of the Resolute desk and he spent got his "secret intel" during his weekly polishing of Trump's dome.

That's how I feel about that miserable toad.

+10 points to the first MMO-OT Artist who draws a good picture of Nunes giving President Watersports head. Your country needs you.

[Barnabas]

Yeah you're just making up shit at this point.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2443

#37 As president, do you think Donald Trump should - support efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, or not?
82% of Republicans favor Trump supporting Repeal
15% appose.

BUT

#38 Do you think President Trump and the Republicans in Congress should repeal all of the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, should repeal parts of the healthcare law but keep other parts, or should not repeal any of the Affordable Care Act?
42% of Republicans say repeal ALL of Obamacare
55% of Republicans say just parts

AND
#39 There is a Republican health care plan to replace Obamacare, known as the American Health Care Act. Do you approve or disapprove of this Republican health care plan?
41% of Republicans approve
24% Dossaprove
35% Dont Know / Not Applicable

AND

#45. If your U.S. Senator or Congressperson votes to replace Obamacare with the Republican health care plan, will that make you more likely to vote for their reelection, less likely to vote for their reelection, or won't it matter much either way?

43% of Republicans say More Likely
10% say less Likely
41% say won't matter.


So yeah. Repeal is certainly desired... though Republicans significantly favored parts over all of it. And Replace, Republicans were split between favoring and not caring.

So clearly your "Just repeal, fuck replace" is Barnabas speaking for Barnabas and a minority of Republicans. And this is EXACTLY what got the party into this mess. Because your position is not THE position. It never has been.

Even if you replace you still have to repeal it Skroe. I'll take my 82%.

[Skroe]

Even if you replace you still have to repeal it Skroe. I'll take my 82%.

Now go read #38.

Math isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?

[Barnabas]

Chaos isn't responsible. But this is all a modest deal at most. The three headed monster of government finances are Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

I'll say it again, between 2014 and 2016, Medicare grew by around $80 billion. That's adding four whole NASAs ($19 billion per year) to government expenditures in three budget years. Our country could do so much more... not just in space, but infrastructure, education, research, public welfare, if not for that singular all consuming beast.

Healthcare is a right. Healthcare is important But collectively, as it's structured today, it's also the worst thing that's happened to the United States since the Civil War. Obamacare eats up people's spending. Drugs keep people destitute and government assistance drains coffers.

It's truly an abomination. But hey, we got our fucking principles.

Yet let's all support a free loading bill that balloons health costs even more. Yay?

- - - Updated - - -

Now go read #38.

Math isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?

I read it. Just technically you can't do one without the other. Just sayin.

[Elegiac]

Yet let's all support a free loading bill that balloons health costs even more. Yay?

By all demonstrated metrics, a gestalt single payer reform would reduce health care costs significantly.

- - - Updated - - -

I read it. Just technically you can't do one with the other. Just sayin.

"Partial" repeal is not a full repeal.

And by parts, they almost always mean the individual mandate.

[Skroe]

Yet let's all support a free loading bill that balloons health costs even more. Yay?

- - - Updated - - -



I read it. Just technically you can't do one with the other. Just sayin.

Nah I'm saying that once again, faux-conservatives and Trumpkins like yourself go after the low hanging fruit because you don't have the stones to fight the three headed dragon.

Going after Obamacare? That's beginner mode. Tax Reform will be an order of magnitude worse. And one day, beyond that, is the great and all consuming hydra that is Medicare reform that is the political equivalent of building New York City on Pluto. Not even Mars. Pluto.

Children like yourself who only look at and care for numbers they like and not ones they don't, simply aren't cut out for that fight.

[Barnabas]

By all demonstrated metrics, a gestalt single payer reform would reduce health care costs significantly.

- - - Updated - - -



"Partial" repeal is not a full repeal.

And by parts, they almost always mean the individual mandate.

Hard to believe that without actually putting pressure on providers. That won't happen when your vote means less than the healthcare lobbies money. So good luck with that.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah I'm saying that once again, faux-conservatives and Trumpkins like yourself go after the low hanging fruit because you don't have the stones to fight the three headed dragon.

Going after Obamacare? That's beginner mode. Tax Reform will be an order of magnitude worse. And one day, beyond that, is the great and all consuming hydra that is Medicare reform that is the political equivalent of building New York City on Pluto. Not even Mars. Pluto.

Children like yourself who only look at and care for numbers they like and not ones they don't, simply aren't cut out for that fight.

Oh please you try too hard dude.

[Elegiac]

Hard to believe that without actually putting pressure on providers. That won't happen when your vote means less than the healthcare lobbies money. So good luck with that.

Hey, it's your crowd that argues that money is speech and corporations are people. Have fun with that.

[Skroe]

Oh please you try too hard dude.

Nah. Again, it's that I can do math. Obamacare was a unifying issue for Republicans... or so we thought.

Tax Reform? You think all the Republican factions have a common vision on taxation at this point? Or that any subset they can pass a bill with Democratic support? Not happening. They are even more divided on Tax reform than healthcare.

And then there is Medicare reform... Democrats will protect it to their dying breath. Republicans are more cognescent of the numbers, but are dependent upon voters who rely upon it. But medicare is the budgetary monster.

So maybe you should try harder. You know, being in the majority means actual governing. Reforming. That kind of thing.





But let's ignore that and keep trying to repeal Obamacare. Because that would be a victory amrite? You know... not dramatically curbing the costs of the great hydra up there before it eats up everything. It's not like we're on the clock for that or anything.

[Daelak]

I make shit up without evidence, slowly backtrack when it's proven I'm wrong, twisting and re-interpreting my statement until something like the truth matches, claim I was mostly vindicated, then go silent when that something like the truth recants.

Shit, wait, that's Trump. Here's where I got my info this time:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...se-intel-panel

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...th-intel-panel

This is going to be great, they will use their 5th amendment protections.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, and here's the rub: the only people who want a blanket repeal are hardline teabaggers. Most people do not want a return to how things were before Obamacare, and it's becoming increasingly apparent that even a flawed piece of legislation like the ACA is better than nothing.

The Republicans cannot deliver on their promise of repeal without serious political consequences, nor can they afford to leave it in place. The fact that they have demonstrated no workable alternative to the ACA is going to hurt them in the long run with both moderates and teabaggers.

Barnabas doesn't realize how much his premiums would rise and family members being thrown off their health insurance plans if they repealed the ACA. This is the same genius line of reasoning of building a 25 billion dollar wall will be beneficial for Barnabas as well.

- - - Updated - - -

No it's happening in states like California that is supposedly the golden child for ACA. If you live in SoCal you get the better end of the bargain. If you live in NorCal you pay a lot more. You pretend like it's the same everywhere when it isn't even in the same state. Check some of the states websites and you'll see what I mean. They don't even lie about it. Some uninformed people spread lies but it's that is changed when you see with your own eyes their data. You keep bringing up the tea partiers and I'm anti federalist. If they believed in civil liberties then I'd support them but they like the democrats do not.

ACA isn't failing, it's just showing a glaring flaw in how private insurance is ran, and why insurance in healthcare is a fool's errand in the first place.