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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    If Blizzard forces us to limit how fast we do stuff - OMFG GATING
    If Blizzard lets us do it as fast as we want - OMFG GRINDING

    Seriously - the sooner that Blizzard stops listening to its customers completely, the better this game will be.
    I assume that you are comparing gating like in 7.2 or the Suramar questline to the AP grind in Legion.

    People hate the AP grind because you have to do the same thing over and over again. The same dungeon, the same world quests. Whatever awards the best AP. Removing gating from things like the Suramar questline or the 7.2 questline wouldn't force us to do the same thing over and over again, it would just allow us to advance in the story. Nobody would complain about having to "grind" out the whole 7.2 questline in a couple of hours/days, because it wouldn't really be a grind to begin with.

    Blizzard chose to have no cap on AP, but to gate questlines. Maybe they should've gone with the complete opposite, and put a cap on AP and don't gate questlines.

  2. #102
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    If Blizzard forces us to limit how fast we do stuff - OMFG GATING
    If Blizzard lets us do it as fast as we want - OMFG GRINDING

    Seriously - the sooner that Blizzard stops listening to its customers completely, the better this game will be.
    I assume that you are comparing gating like in 7.2 or the Suramar questline to the AP grind in Legion?

    People hate the AP grind because you have to do the same thing over and over again, and it takes a loooong time. The same dungeon, the same world quests. Whatever awards the best AP. Removing gating from things like the Suramar questline or the 7.2 questline wouldn't force us to do the same thing over and over again, it would just allow us to advance in the story. Nobody would complain about having to "grind" out the whole 7.2 questline in a couple of hours/days, because it wouldn't really be a grind to begin with. It's a very short questline. Being able to do all that in one go takes a couple of hours. Being able to max out your artifact weapon in one go will still take weeks.

    Gating is not done to save people from a grind, it's done cause there is so very little content to begin with. The Suramar questline could be done in a couple of hours. It's just a handful of quests.

    Blizzard chose to have no cap on AP, but to gate questlines. Maybe they should've gone with the complete opposite, and put a cap on AP and don't gate questlines.

  3. #103
    Deleted
    They say it will take weeks to unlock Flying. Really? Even when you got Pathfinder part 1 already? If so, really screw them. I am currently unsubbed and do not want to resub just to grind up the damn flying for the next weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
    Nobody would complain about having to "grind" out the whole 7.2 questline in a couple of hours/days
    "Need moar content!!!" tears incoming.

  4. #104
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio9 View Post
    "Need moar content!!!" tears incoming.
    But we're not getting more content when it's gated. They just trickle it down for 11 weeks, which makes people lose interest in the content to begin with.

  5. #105
    Remember when raid patches had actual content in them? Other than virtually nothing but regurgitated versions of quests you've already done with NPCs who are now in the new subzone? And what little there is gated behind shit, again? I suppose you don't remember if you played only WoD and Legion, but they used to do these things once upon a time where they'd release a major raid in the same patch as the patch which is named after it, rather than 3+ months afterward. And in these raid patches, a majority of the time they add in a gigantic amount of content to do as well.

    But we can't do that anymore. Despite us being a billion dollar company, we'd rather focus on milking cash out of you in our new trilogy of games filled to the brim with cash shops. Somehow having FF14 shame us on how to actual do content patches, despite us having existed for 14 years already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    And the whole Broken Shore Zone. Depending on what you count as content, you also get:

    - 5 new Heroic dungeons
    - 3 new Mythic+ dungeons
    - Several new Mythic+ Affixes
    Yes, you! You sir!

    Have I got a deal for you.

    What if I told you...we're adding in a bunch of new content in 7.2.

    What if I told you that we're calling "lower difficulties of dungeons you've been farming for months" as new content!? What if I told you that we're adding in new affixes for those same dungeons you've been farming in m+ for months? What if I told you that other than that, you have a single new dungeon that takes 45 minutes tops, and other than that, literally nothing new but a 20 minute quest chain once per week?

    What if I told you, besides all of that recycled bullshit nobody wants, you can also do a raid that won't be out for months!?

    HOW CAN YOU NOT CALL THIS A GREAT RAID PATCH!?!?!? It amazes me that Blizzard still has so many useful sycophants willing to defend this piece of trash expansion.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2017-03-25 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
    But we're not getting more content when it's gated. They just trickle it down for 11 weeks, which makes people lose interest in the content to begin with.
    Not that i support gating, not at all, but when they give the players freedom to go their own pace like for AP power it also doesnt end well obviously. Schwarzkopf has made a point. Players burn through things if they get the possibly, so the content is over pretty soon for them OR it has to be a real bad grind / gated to make it last longer.

  7. #107
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio9 View Post
    Not that i support gating, not at all, but when they give the players freedom to go their own pace like for AP power it also doesnt end well obviously. Schwarzkopf has made a point. Players burn through things if they get the possibly, so the content is over pretty soon for them OR it has to be a real bad grind to make it last longer.
    And that is fine. If they release new content, outdoor content, people should be able to burn through it in one go. Progression is for raids. Imagine they gated Azsuna, Val'sharah, Highmountain and Stormheim. Would that have made the questing experience there better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marston
    And the whole Broken Shore Zone. Depending on what you count as content, you also get:

    - 5 new Heroic dungeons
    - 3 new Mythic+ dungeons
    - Several new Mythic+ Affixes
    What? Where? I count one new dungeon in 7.2

  8. #108
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
    And that is fine. If they release new content, outdoor content, people should be able to burn through it in one go. Progression is for raids. Imagine they gated Azsuna, Val'sharah, Highmountain and Stormheim. Would that have made the questing experience there better?
    There's no need to gate Levelling because there is enough stuff to do afterwards. Obviously they do what they think keeps up players attachment to the game as high as possible. When they let them rush through the new outdoor content within a few days there is again nothing else to do than farming (apexis, nethershards...) and old content (M+, Nighthold, WQs) people burnt out from already. They probably figured this would cost more subs than gating things.

    (I also believe they for example change specs back and forth all the time just keep players emotionally attached, even when its negative emotions).

  9. #109
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio9 View Post
    There's no need to gate Levelling because there is enough stuff to do afterwards. Obviously they do what they think keeps up players attachment to the game as high as possible. When they let them rush through the new outdoor content within a few days there is again nothing else to do than farming (apexis, nethershards...) and old content (M+, Nighthold, WQs) people burnt out from already. They probably figured this would be may more annoying and sub lossing than gating things.

    (I also believe they for example change specs back and forth all the time just keep players emotionally attached, even when its negative emotions).
    There is no need to gate quests in Suramar or in 7.2 on the Broken Shore either. There is enough other stuff to do. We have world quests now and 7.2 will have a new raid and a new dungeon, and new class quests. This isn't like WoD.

    Besides, if you want people to have stuff to do, it's better to not gate it, because that way, they'll have something to do for 30 minutes every week and that's it. People have multiple characters. If you allow them to complete the questlines from the get go, on every character, they will be occupied for weeks. If you only open up 3-5 quests every week, like in Suramar, you'll be done in half an hour.

    That was one of the problems with WoD. You have an apexis daily once a day, 2-3 quests for your garrison campaign every week, and that was it. Terrible gating.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
    And that is fine. If they release new content, outdoor content, people should be able to burn through it in one go. Progression is for raids. Imagine they gated Azsuna, Val'sharah, Highmountain and Stormheim. Would that have made the questing experience there better?

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    What? Where? I count one new dungeon in 7.2
    As said, "Depending on what you count as content". If you never did any Mythic Dungeon, you get 5 "new" dungeons (Arcway, Court of Stars, Upper/Lower Karazhan, the new 5 man). And well, 3 "new" dungeons for Mythic+ (Upper/Lower Karazhan and the new 5 man). Maybe only 1 is really "new", but it's still additional content, imo.

  11. #111
    Deleted
    Personally, I will just rejoin the game after 3 months or so.

    I want to do the content at my own pace, not at the pace the developers demand me to.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    As said, "Depending on what you count as content".
    Why is it a matter of what we count as content? We were talking about dungeons specifically. There is one new dungeon in 7.2. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    If you never did any Mythic Dungeon, you get 5 "new" dungeons (Arcway, Court of Stars, Upper/Lower Karazhan, the new 5 man). And well, 3 "new" dungeons for Mythic+ (Upper/Lower Karazhan and the new 5 man). Maybe only 1 is really "new", but it's still additional content, imo.
    Yeah, not even Blizzard could be as dishonest as you are here. No, they are not new dungeons, just because they are now available on other difficulties. That's not even something that can be debated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Personally, I will just rejoin the game after 3 months or so.

    I want to do the content at my own pace, not at the pace the developers demand me to.
    And that is exactly the reason why all this gating is stupid and a failure.

  13. #113
    "No new content"

    Ignore class mounts, introduction of flying (which even the devs said could be done in 2-3 weeks), a pet battle dungeon, new pvp brawls (I cant wait for ram EotS), new dungeon, introduction/evolution of the rep cap, the new challenge scenarios(?) for each spec to complete, assaults, building stuff across server like in BC (because BC WAS THE BEST EXPANSION EVER AMIRITEGUIES?), and yes a raid that will be released in ~3 months but considering we got NH a bit over 2 months ago are people really wanting a new raid that soon?

    I swear some of you want a new expansion worth of content every 3-4 weeks that is tailored for you personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    Complaining and whining at its best in Legion.
    And what I find even more hilarious, is if Blizz did release 7.2 and ToS at the same time people would be rioting in the streets complaining that the raid was released too soon..

    But at the moment people are complaining that they have to wait 11 weeks for ToS to open, I remember Isle of Quel'Danas and how much you had to do to open up the island.. And with Sunwell Plateau was to have people gradually unlock it each of the gates with Essence of The Immortals, but in the end they just put the 3 or so gates of the raid to open at certain times..

    And going back to the MoP raid release dates you had Mog Vaults, Heart of Fear, Terrace of Endless Springs raids released over the months of October/November 2012, then in march 2013 you had Throne of Thunder so about 6 months then September 2013 was Siege of Orgrimmar another 6 months..

    Nighthold was opened in January it has been 3 months since then and another 3 months to go so about 6 months in total and people are complaining about having to wait so long for ToS.. I wonder how much complaining their would be to have it open next week and be done within a month and then complaining of having nothing left to do..

    Really no matter what Blizz do people will find fault somewhere..

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I swear some of you want a new expansion worth of content every 3-4 weeks that is tailored for you personally.
    No, i just want to play at my own pace and not how developers want to keep me subbed for months to do a 20 mins quest per week.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    "No new content"

    Ignore class mounts, introduction of flying (which even the devs said could be done in 2-3 weeks), a pet battle dungeon, new pvp brawls (I cant wait for ram EotS), new dungeon, introduction/evolution of the rep cap, the new challenge scenarios(?) for each spec to complete, assaults, building stuff across server like in BC (because BC WAS THE BEST EXPANSION EVER AMIRITEGUIES?), and yes a raid that will be released in ~3 months but considering we got NH a bit over 2 months ago are people really wanting a new raid that soon?

    I swear some of you want a new expansion worth of content every 3-4 weeks that is tailored for you personally.
    The problem with having what I have bolded is that people will complain of having too much to do, I often wonder if the players themselves actually know what they want.. Because with the amount of complaining I am seeing I doubt that they do, or that with instant gratification generation they want everything handed to them yesterday so long as they don't have to put in any effort..

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And what I find even more hilarious, is if Blizz did release 7.2 and ToS at the same time people would be rioting in the streets complaining that the raid was released too soon..

    But at the moment people are complaining that they have to wait 11 weeks for ToS to open, I remember Isle of Quel'Danas and how much you had to do to open up the island.. And with Sunwell Plateau was to have people gradually unlock it each of the gates with Essence of The Immortals, but in the end they just put the 3 or so gates of the raid to open at certain times..

    And going back to the MoP raid release dates you had Mog Vaults, Heart of Fear, Terrace of Endless Springs raids released over the months of October/November 2012, then in march 2013 you had Throne of Thunder so about 6 months then September 2013 was Siege of Orgrimmar another 6 months..

    Nighthold was opened in January it has been 3 months since then and another 3 months to go so about 6 months in total and people are complaining about having to wait so long for ToS.. I wonder how much complaining their would be to have it open next week and be done within a month and then complaining of having nothing left to do..

    Really no matter what Blizz do people will find fault somewhere..
    I agree with everything you're saying but 1 thing, NH released Jan 17/18, it currently Mar 25th so it's only been out about 2 months and a week, if they open ToS on June 20th like we predict it will be almost exactly 5 months which is EXACTLY what they were shooting for at Blizzcon, so if anyone complains they really haven't payed much attention to, well, anything.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    No, i just want to play at my own pace and not how developers want to keep me subbed for months to do a 20 mins quest per week.
    Then this game is not for you, maybe a F2P MMO where you can play at your own pace and you don't have to pay for a subscription..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I agree with everything you're saying but 1 thing, NH released Jan 17/18, it currently Mar 25th so it's only been out about 2 months and a week, if they open ToS on June 20th like we predict it will be almost exactly 5 months which is EXACTLY what they were shooting for at Blizzcon, so if anyone complains they really haven't payed much attention to, well, anything.
    Exactly the proposed period between Nighthold and Tomb is about right it gives people time to get NH out of the way and ready for ToS, but seems people are never happy the way they carry on you would think they want a new raid every week..

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And what I find even more hilarious, is if Blizz did release 7.2 and ToS at the same time people would be rioting in the streets complaining that the raid was released too soon..

    But at the moment people are complaining that they have to wait 11 weeks for ToS to open, I remember Isle of Quel'Danas and how much you had to do to open up the island.. And with Sunwell Plateau was to have people gradually unlock it each of the gates with Essence of The Immortals, but in the end they just put the 3 or so gates of the raid to open at certain times..

    And going back to the MoP raid release dates you had Mog Vaults, Heart of Fear, Terrace of Endless Springs raids released over the months of October/November 2012, then in march 2013 you had Throne of Thunder so about 6 months then September 2013 was Siege of Orgrimmar another 6 months..

    Nighthold was opened in January it has been 3 months since then and another 3 months to go so about 6 months in total and people are complaining about having to wait so long for ToS.. I wonder how much complaining their would be to have it open next week and be done within a month and then complaining of having nothing left to do..

    Really no matter what Blizz do people will find fault somewhere..
    No one is complaining about ToS not being there with launch. It is about not being able to do the content at our own pace that is demoralizing. We get fed bits each week instead.

    It would be better to just quit for 11 weeks then return.

    But no, Blizzard realized some people would do this and so for fear of staying behind on AK people will conform accordingly.
    They have become incredibly manipulative with Legion in terms of grabbing each possible dollar bill possible from people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Then this game is not for you, maybe a F2P MMO where you can play at your own pace and you don't have to pay for a subscription..
    Wait a minute. Subscription-based game + incredible gating.
    I would understand if gating were present in F2P games (because of micro-transactions and what not) but gating in P2P games basically means you pay more than you originally would.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    No one is complaining about ToS not being there with launch. It is about not being able to do the content at our own pace that is demoralizing. We get fed bits each week instead.

    It would be better to just quit for 11 weeks then return.

    But no, Blizzard realized some people would do this and so for fear of staying behind on AK people will conform accordingly.
    They have become incredibly manipulative with Legion in terms of grabbing each possible dollar bill possible from people.
    So they are not allowed to make money they are a company after all and they have to make money to survive, and if you think that they are the only company that manipulates it customers you would be wrong..

    And to quit for 11 weeks and then return would probably not work out the way folks want, if doing the Suramar quest line on alts has shown me it is still gated..

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