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  1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Apparently ram can be a big deal with ryzen down the road due to the interconnects. Think im gonna return my 3200 ram for some 4000 just in case
    Care to do benchmarks with the difference?

  2. #1342
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Apparently ram can be a big deal with ryzen down the road due to the interconnects. Think im gonna return my 3200 ram for some 4000 just in case
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZS2XHcQdqA

    I think Ram vendors now love AMD for this, thats a huge boost, granted he achieved that through BLK overclocks but still, this is quite a strong showing, GTA 5 performance deficit is crushed.

    Hopefully we see the platform stabilise more, this year is a good year for tech.

  3. #1343
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Interesting post at Anandtech:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iooncraz (AnandTech Forum)
    Having now spent a couple days running my main rig with Ryzen 1700X @ 3.9Ghz I have noticed a few interesting improvements over an i7-2600k @ 4.5Ghz.

    For example, I used to always have a stutter when moving a Firefox tab with a video playing to the second screen. That is completely gone. Same profile, same Firefox, same drivers, same Windows installation... just completely gone.

    In fact, I've noticed this in probably a dozen of little places - the system just seems absurdly smooth. It's amazing how much I became accustomed to those little stumbles and hiccups to the point I didn't even notice them.

    On a more interesting note - I have examined my CCX benchmark code and behavior quite thoroughly - the peak low CCX latency is, indeed, just 20ns, but the average is quite a bit higher (100ns). I have much more work to do on the benchmark before the results will be clean..

    At the moment, I start 16 threads, 8 writers, 8 readers, and I set each to an affinity on a specific physical core and each with the highest priority I can manage on Linux... then the readers begin spinning on an atomic_int to have the value "2" which indicates that a writer has written a 64-bit TSC value into its data structure as well as modifying an integer to denote which core did the writing, the reader then calculates the time delta (in TSC cycles) and inserts the result in the list of results for the specific writer.

    This has the problem that each core is running both reading and writing threads, so some of the results are dramatically high as the two heavy threads are switched back and forth, naturally, so I will be focusing on addressing that minor issue now that the basic test is working.

  4. #1344
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorianrage View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZS2XHcQdqA

    I think Ram vendors now love AMD for this, thats a huge boost, granted he achieved that through BLK overclocks but still, this is quite a strong showing, GTA 5 performance deficit is crushed.

    Hopefully we see the platform stabilise more, this year is a good year for tech.
    Yep its looking decent for ram. I just ordered this stuff:
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232443

    With 10% promo code it was 188 bucks, really not that bad considering its 4000 speed. I looked at pricing history on pcpartpicker, and 4000+ stuff has always been this expensive so im pretty happy

  5. #1345
    Stood in the Fire mojo6912's Avatar
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    Fascinate do you think that ram you just purchased will perform better than the ram you recommended to me earlier? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232410

    edit: The reason I ask is because I keep hearing people saying ryzen loves the 14 timing ram.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo6912 View Post
    Fascinate do you think that ram you just purchased will perform better than the ram you recommended to me earlier? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232410

    edit: The reason I ask is because I keep hearing people saying ryzen loves the 14 timing ram.
    That ram is great, the only reason i went to 4000 is that it wasnt much more expensive and the off chance ryzen ever supports 4000 in the future.

    When i get my ram i am going to be copying those timings for mine, 14 14 14 34 3200 and hoping it works lol. Speeds over 3200 arent supported at all right now, and only down the road will we know if amd will ever support it. I just spent a bit more in case type of thing.

    Edit: That ram you linked has the best chance of hitting rated speeds from what ive read, just be aware its still way early so you might have to settle at 2933 or 2666 til new bios come out. Hit and miss kind of thing.
    Last edited by Fascinate; 2017-03-25 at 06:23 PM.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    Copying timings because you downclock doesn't always work out - in some situations, the RAM might even try to draw less voltage if you downclock it (though it depends upon the RAM, board and CPU combo) which might require setting voltage manually. You're better setting it to the lower speed to begin with (assuming the native speed doesn't work), ensure that works, and then start working on timings from there.

    Truth be told, I'm not sure if there's been any benchmarks done with regards to RAM timings on Ryzen. It used to be the case that Intel benefitted more from RAM speed while AMD benefitted more from tighter timings, but that's going back a very long time.
    Well the ram i ordered is 4000mhz, i wont be able to try xmp im gonna have to manually enter everything. I just figured 3200 14 14 14 34 was a good starting off point as its all the same samsung ram, assuming mine a little better since its being sold as 4000.

    Im pretty new when it comes to memory, any advice is welcome

  8. #1348

  9. #1349
    So the deal with RAM is that what you want is Samsung B-die. Most RAM manufactures buys memory modules from whatever is cheapest. Most high speed Corsair memory sticks is Hynix or Samsung ICs

    You can check any corsair memory if it's correct by the sticker In bottom left it says Ver 4.23. What you need is Ver 4.31 that is the fastest memory.

    To run 3200mhz you need 2x8GB sticks. if you need more ram your out of luck and need to run slower clocks.

    I was looking at this https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820233859

    However read that they mix ICs between B-die and Hynix. So if you order one be prepared to send it back if the wrong version or go to a store and check for yourself(In my store all they had was 5.39 which is Hynix). If you want to be sure you are getting good memory and ready to pay a premium for it you want G.skill Trident Z memory https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232483 is what I ordered (You don't need RBG but in my country RBG is all the sold).

    It's 100% Samsung B-die so guaranteed to run 3200mhz in any of the top motherboards and is listed in most RAM compatibly lists. But is quite a bit pricier but if you want good RAM this is what you need. You can pretty much pick whatever speed over 3200mhz you want, the listed speed is just what they managed to overclock it too. A 3600mhz kit may be overclock-able to 4000mhz if you are lucky.

  10. #1350
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    What he said /\. Samsung B dies are the best in the market and can take those weird conditions better if what you're trying to do is OC the RAM using the 2666 profile (it has tight timings). As far as I know the "Designed for Ryzen" FlareX is also B die only.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorius View Post
    What he said /\. Samsung B dies are the best in the market and can take those weird conditions better if what you're trying to do is OC the RAM using the 2666 profile (it has tight timings). As far as I know the "Designed for Ryzen" FlareX is also B die only.
    Timings at this point dont matter, you want the frequency as high as possible because of the way infinity fabric works at half memory speed. This is why i ordered 4000 ram, even tho its cas 19 the speed is much more important it seems.

  12. #1352
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Timings at this point dont matter, you want the frequency as high as possible because of the way infinity fabric works at half memory speed. This is why i ordered 4000 ram, even tho its cas 19 the speed is much more important it seems.
    It does matter. "19" in this case means it waits 19 positive clock cycles before doing whatever is rated as "19" again, at 2000MHz that would be 19*(1/f) = ~9.5ns.
    For comparison a CAS 14 2666 RAM would need to wait ~10.05ns which is still more time even if the timings are tighter.

    That has absolutely nothing to do with the problem though, the timings that are problematic at the moment are internal timings. Those are fixed in AM4 currently and the controller is simply using the same values for everything you can throw at it. It is fine for most cases, they probably did this because the x16 multiplier wasn't that stable yet which is understandable.

    The trick is using the 2666 profile (a lower multiplier), with tighter internal timings and then increasing the bclk to overclock the final frequency.

    And the infinity fabric doesn't run at "half the memory speed", it runs at the same clock as the RAM. "4000 ram" runs at a clock of 2000MHz, it's named "double data rate" for this reason.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorius View Post
    It does matter. "19" in this case means it waits 19 positive clock cycles before doing whatever is rated as "19" again, at 2000MHz that would be 19*(1/f) = ~9.5ns.
    For comparison a CAS 14 2666 RAM would need to wait ~10.05ns which is still more time even if the timings are tighter.

    That has absolutely nothing to do with the problem though, the timings that are problematic at the moment are internal timings. Those are fixed in AM4 currently and the controller is simply using the same values for everything you can throw at it. It is fine for most cases, they probably did this because the x16 multiplier wasn't that stable yet which is understandable.

    The trick is using the 2666 profile (a lower multiplier), with tighter internal timings and then increasing the bclk to overclock the final frequency.

    And the infinity fabric doesn't run at "half the memory speed", it runs at the same clock as the RAM. "4000 ram" runs at a clock of 2000MHz, it's named "double data rate" for this reason.
    With all that rambling you missed the point that memory speed is more important than latency with ryzen. When i said it runs at half the speed of memory you knew what i meant...

    Also timings is not why some boards are having problems with some ram, it has to do entirely with manufacturer. I have tried literally every combination of cas at every speed from 2666 to 3200 and nothing boots, this is because i bought hynix ram. CAS 15 2400 is max my ram will do currently, i can set 24 cas at 2666 and it still wont boot. This will be fixed when i get my 4000 kit, as its samsung b die stuff.

    Also you do realize you shouldnt be using bclk to get ram up right? That is super janky stuff and messes with nearly everything in your system like PCI-E bus and could cause errors and instability. Not to mention the fact only like 3 AM4 boards even support that.

  14. #1354
    Stood in the Fire mojo6912's Avatar
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    This is all very helpful. I have a couple questions about RAM if anyone cares to answer.

    I was thinking of getting this 32GB kit. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232376
    I know that using 4 sticks of RAM, I would have to run them at a lower speed than if I had 2 sticks. Is it also true that I could run this kit with 2x8GB sticks faster than I can run it with 2x16GB sticks?

    Out of these 3 kits mentioned recently in this tread, which would be the best?
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232483
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232443
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232407

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo6912 View Post
    This is all very helpful. I have a couple questions about RAM if anyone cares to answer.

    I was thinking of getting this 32GB kit. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232376
    I know that using 4 sticks of RAM, I would have to run them at a lower speed than if I had 2 sticks. Is it also true that I could run this kit with 2x8GB sticks faster than I can run it with 2x16GB sticks?

    Out of these 3 kits mentioned recently in this tread, which would be the best?
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232483
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232443
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820232407
    I would steer clear of 4 dimm kits entirely, you want single rank samsung b-die kits like the one i linked you other day :P

    Those you linked are all samsung b-die, should all work at 3200. I only went with 4000 in case it gets supported down the road, which isnt a guarantee at all. After promo code it was around 30 dollars more than a 3200 cas 14 kit so i said screw it lol.

  16. #1356
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    With all that rambling you missed the point
    Read the post again, the math is there for a reason. Or even better, watch this and this. The x16 multiplier performs better than anything else that is supported even if it isn't as mature, that is obvious. But using the 2666 profile and increasing the clock will make it perform better than the x16 multiplier, which is the point. In that example with random values it would bring down the waiting time to 7ns which is only ~73% as long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Also you do realize you shouldnt be using bclk to get ram up right?
    Nobody said anyone should. It is, however, still the way to get the most performance out of it. But you'll indeed fuck PCI-E lanes, VGAs will work at 2.0 and NVMe drive corruption is to be expected. That's for world record breaking on LN2.
    Last edited by Artorius; 2017-03-27 at 09:56 PM.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewOU2015 View Post
    As expected my fps in wow dropped after "upgrading" from a 6700k to a 1700. The game is still playable but the loss of frames hurt.
    Someone on reddit mentioned seeing up to a 20% boost in WOW FPS when moving to 3200 memory.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...idate/dfgrxcm/
    Last edited by Gray_Matter; 2017-03-28 at 08:06 AM.

  18. #1358
    Stood in the Fire mojo6912's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    I only went with 4000 in case it gets supported down the road, which isnt a guarantee at all.
    So the 4000 kit is the best? =P

    edit: really sucks to be limited to 16GB if you want the fastest speeds.

  19. #1359
    I want to make clear to people that WoW performance on ryzen is.....less than desirable.

    I am logging in right now starting the broken shores quests, and it is almost always under 60 FPS. I dont think i would have been under 60 on my old pc with a 2500k.

    I still have my old rig, will do testing later.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Welp got some bad news. My 6 year old PC is getting consistently higher FPS than my new one.

    Standing in the exact same spot (deliverance point in broken isles) my old PC is getting 62-67 FPS and my new one is at 50-54. Its mind boggling to me as well. My new ram comes tomorrow and i will test again, if it does not get to at least the performance of my old pc the motherboard is going back to newegg and ill be heading to microcenter to grab a 7700k and a z270 board.

  20. #1360
    No Iam a gammer mostly so I prefer horsepower over quantity of cores, but I see the value in them, probably in a few years I will be singing another tune, but in the next 1-2 years I dont think so, still there are so games that are pushing the envelope like Doom and Battlefield I

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