Poll: Should the Pledge of Allegiance be removed from schools?

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  1. #101
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    I was surprised to learn some time ago that it still was present in the US schools. Pretty Orwellian element... Out with it!
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
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  2. #102
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    I was surprised to learn some time ago that it still was present in the US schools. Pretty Orwellian element... Out with it!
    It actually fits quite well with the true purpose of US schools (not the stated purpose). The true purpose of schools being to break people that have any trace of individual thought, and mold them to be "obedient workers" who are subservient to the government and large corporations.

  3. #103
    Removed? Nah, but it should only be voluntary...and de-stigmatized for not wanting to say it.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    We should definitely remove the references to "God" from the Pledge and our currency, especially as these aren't historical elements, but more recent additions to help fight those godless heathen communists.

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    Attempts to instill a theocracy in any way are a rejection of the US and American values on their face.
    The really amusing irony there being that the USSR was historically MORE religious than the US, by quite a bit. They don't call it the Russian Orthodox Church for nothing.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Icee View Post
    Throw out the under god part. And fuck whatever that guy was saying about bringing back school prayers.
    The funny thing about the "Bring back pray in school" or the "Put pray back in school" crowd is that you can pray in school now. No one is (generally) going to stop you from lowering your head and saying a quiet prayer to bless your lunch or to do good on a test.

    What they want is to make everyone else do it.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    That's the opposite of what should happen. The god part is the most harmless part, it's the flag of country part that is highly nazistic and offensive. Any country doing this should be condemned.
    Pledging oaths to your country and the people in it predates nazi ideology.

    I don't see the harm in ensuring the coming generations have undying loyalty to the people of your country, at all.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    The funny thing about the "Bring back pray in school" or the "Put pray back in school" crowd is that you can pray in school now. No one is (generally) going to stop you from lowering your head and saying a quiet prayer to bless your lunch or to do good on a test.

    What they want is to make everyone else do it.
    I would just do what I did when my parents sent me to a religious private school for that one year. Just refuse to take part.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    This! That's the definition of nazism, what a pitiful country where people are being indoctrinated like that.

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    Man I've never seen anyone fail at Godwining a thread before... this one keeps on rolling.

    I guess we should stop playing the national anthem too the Nazi's did it. The Nazi's had a flag! OMG get rid of all flags!!! The Nazi's drink milk, ate bacon, and ate eggs!! OMG kill all the cows, pigs, and chickens too!! They symbolize Nazi's!

    Geesh get your head out of the sand and think....

  9. #109
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    I don't care one way or the other if its removed, but I do think "under god" should be removed.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with instilling national pride in elementary school kids, though.

  10. #110
    I don't see any value in destroying our traditions. I think it's important to remember where we come from and how far we've come. I also don't think there's anything wrong with trying to instill patriotism in the youth. Is it indoctrination? Yes. I'd also argue that not all indoctrination is harmful though. We also indoctrinate our kids to not murder people. I think that is definitely a good thing, so calling it propaganda or indoctrination is really nothing more than a deflection and that doesn't hold much weight with me.

    I would be okay with removing the "Under God" line, as it's not part of the original. I absolutely don't want the pledge removed from schools though.

    In fact, seeing how a lot of college age kids think these days, how they can't think critically and either end up thinking America is the worst country ever or the best, I think our public education could do with some reform. We should really do better with trying to teach kids the absolute best and worst parts of American history, to try and give a balanced and realistic perspective.

    Imo, kids should come out of public education with a positive view of American, but with the understanding that the country is not perfect and has never been perfect.

  11. #111
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    It actually fits quite well with the true purpose of US schools (not the stated purpose). The true purpose of schools being to break people that have any trace of individual thought, and mold them to be "obedient workers" who are subservient to the government and large corporations.
    I disagree, I think the US schools do a good job raising self-aware critical individuals. They just have some traditionalist elements, such as this one, that haven't been gotten rid of because of the conservative lobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  12. #112
    Pledge of Butthurt should be added as this planet's logo. Everything has to cater to everyone now.
    Chicken fried rice is delicious!

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    As in, you think they should just say it and not make a big deal about it? I don't like making a habit of doing or saying shit I don't believe in.
    Our country was formed as a christian country "under god". It is a part of our history. Sorry you don't like it.

  14. #114
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safol View Post
    I don't see the harm in ensuring the coming generations have undying loyalty to the people of your country, at all.
    Blind faith can lead you over a cliff.

    Teaching people to take pride in their country isn't bad but it shouldn't be forced. A country and it's people should earn a person's loyalty. When a people think they are right by default then they tend to take any dissent as wrong. You can see a lot of it in today's politics. Polarization, "us vs them", that kind of nonsense. Take a look at Trump's rhetoric with his "the people" nonsense and you'll get an idea of how things can start to go wrong.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Blind faith can lead you over a cliff.

    Teaching people to take pride in their country isn't bad but it shouldn't be forced. A country and it's people should earn a person's loyalty. When a people think they are right by default then they tend to take any dissent as wrong. You can see a lot of it in today's politics. Polarization, "us vs them", that kind of nonsense. Take a look at Trump's rhetoric with his "the people" nonsense and you'll get an idea of how things can start to go wrong.
    I see you missunderstood me, I never wrote blind faith, I wrote loyalty. They are very different things.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariovsgoku View Post
    Our country was formed as a christian country "under god". It is a part of our history. Sorry you don't like it.
    http://constitutionus.com/

    Find ONE reference in here to God or Christianity, i dare you. Because CTRL + F finds nothing. Sorry you dont like it.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howner View Post
    http://constitutionus.com/

    Find ONE reference in here to God or Christianity, i dare you. Because CTRL + F finds nothing. Sorry you dont like it.
    Most of the founding fathers weren't christians at all. They were in fact deists, who were fleeing persecution by christians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Souls View Post
    For those who aren't familiar with it, the Pledge of Allegiance reads as follows:




    Students in U.S. schools stand up and recite this together at the beginning of each school day. It is usually followed by a moment of silence.

    Here are my arguments for why it should be removed:

    1. Although students cannot be officially punished by the school (as far as I know) for refusing to stand and say it, the social pressures to say it are enormous. A student who refuses to say it risks being seen as unpatriotic or even hating their country. They may be ostracized or bullied by their peers, or even receive a lower grade than they deserve by a teacher who doesn't like their stance.

    2. The fact that the pledge includes the phrase "under God" is discriminatory against atheist and agnostic students, as well as students who are of a polytheistic religion.

    3. Every other pledge I've heard of, you say it once and that's it. What the hell kind of pledge do you have to say every day? Having to say the same thing over and over again causes it to lose meaning. Also, "with liberty and justice for all"? Does anyone really buy that bullshit?

    4. It smacks of something the Hitler Youth would have done.

    5. It is a waste of instructional time. The Pledge and moment of silence take about 30 seconds each day. Multiply that by 180 school days, and that's one and a half hours every year that could be spent learning.
    Officially? Maybe not. I was suspended in HS for not saying the "under god" part one time when the teacher noticed I wasn't saying it. When asked I said I didn't believe in God. I was suspended for the reason of disrupting class. I find it a waste of time entirely and after being suspended I stopped saying the whole thing all together. Liberty and Justice when I got in trouble for not saying 2 words? Freedom of speech wasn't strong in that one.

  19. #119
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariovsgoku View Post
    Our country was formed as a christian country "under god". It is a part of our history. Sorry you don't like it.
    No where in our Constitution does it state that. Yes there were colonies that were founded as christian, but that ended with the founding of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safol View Post
    I see you missunderstood me, I never wrote blind faith, I wrote loyalty. They are very different things.
    Loyalty depends on faith, whether it's warranted or not. I wasn't meaning faith as in religion.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    Cuz blind nationalism is bad.

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    Who is saying you can't be proud of your country? I think pride in the country you're born in is stupid though. Being proud of anything you didn't earn or achieve is just stupid. Immigrants have more of a right to be proud to be in America than someone who just happen to be born here. You should be proud of actual achievements, not probability.

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    The difference being that only one of those groups has a history of being oppressed. Is that hard to grasp?

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    Do you think everyone in here advocating for the removal of the pledge isn't an American? It's even more weird you assume they're European. How ignorant are you? You know there's more than Europeans and Americans on this forum, right?
    Patriotism isn't necessarily "bad". And that is what Americans have. Simply because you can't understand it doesn't make it "bad".

    You are certainly welcomed to your opinion. As is everyone else.

    Yes, I know there are more Europeans in this forum than Americans. The odds are in my favor being correct wouldn't you agree?

    BTW, the pledge is still winning despite those odds. Only 55 to "remove" and 89 to not remove it. A 1.62:1 ratio. One might even call it a landslide victory.
    Last edited by Allybeboba; 2017-03-25 at 10:04 PM.

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