CNN Political Analyst Say's Per Sources Flynn May Have Flipped On Trump.

[Flatspriest]

And yet, even CNN has not posted anything about this on their website to support the person who tweeted it.

[NYC17]

Yeah of course it is somewhat iffy in that regard. I was just talking about the legality of it though. If he briefed Trump first and the latter gave him the okay to press it out, then it was no longer classified. Details like this are important to treat correctly, in order to not give the other side holes to poke at.

He held the press conference first then briefed Trump. So by your logic the only two options are that Trump have the okay to do it without knowing what the information was, or that he somehow knew what it was before being briefed.

Mmm hmmm.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course, since the corruption runs so deep it isn't a surprise.

And the rats are beginning to flee(no offense to rodents)...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...use/index.html

[Nadiru]

Anyone remember when Snowden happened? Remember how the right insisted that intelligence community leaks were necessary for the good of the country? And the further right they were, the more adamant they were about this.

What happened to all of that transparency loving guys? Leaking Trump's real ties with Russia seems like something desired by anyone who seeks transparency in government. Or was that just blowing smoke out of your collective asses, and the farts sounded like you saying "We need transparencthbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt"

I'm perfectly happy to watch you morons trawl through trunk data for months to find something on what's possibly the Mount Stupid of "dumb hills to die on." I think it's embarrassing and the equivalent of the Birther movement, but they had a right to be asylum inmates too.

[Machismo]

Well considering we've heard that Bush is at fault for 8 years. And now Trump is at fault for all the stuff that's being going on for years now. And all the crying over Conspiracy theories being the reason people hate Hillary (Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, etc) - why won't people stop believing all those STUPID conspiracy theories about Madam President to be?

Now... we get the same conspiracy theories out of the left... ZOMG RUSSIA! PUTIN AND TRUMP ARE SECRETLY MARRIED!

and you complain about OTHERS pulling bullshit lines?

Classic

Bush was at fault for pushing us into two protracted wars, that's not really something that should be in question.

The right was pushing Benghazi for years, now they want to whine when the exact same shit is done to their guy?

That's a lot of hypocrisy.

[Skroe]

I'm still waiting on that smoking gun evidence that ties Trump to Russia in such a grievous way that a republican held house will actually vote to impeach. Snowden was an issue that blew up in Obama's face. Republicans are now realizing these leaks are dangerous to them too. This is one of those situations where they laughed at the misfortune of others and karma is now knocking on their door.

You're going to be waiting for a while. Watergate took two years. Investigations take time.

I've been saying early 2019. It's going to be a slow drip for years to come. Which is to say, the world option for Trump.

Trump will not be felled by a silver bullet. Removing him is a multi-year process. You Trumpkins saying "I'm still waiting for the smoking gun" are demanding something that only the most impulsive anti-Trump people are asking for at this point.

Taking down Trump is going to be in the setup. You realize how bad last week was for Trump? I don't think you quite do. Getting that impeachment vote you mention will require alienating Republicans from Trump. That too, will take a process. But that process got kickstarted hardcore this week, first with Trump's threat and Bannon's thuggish strongarming, followed by the blame game and failure of Trumpcare. Is this is enough? Not yet. But consider what's next: Tax Reform. Infrastructure. Entitlement reform. All much more difficult than Obamacare repeal and replace.

That's how this is going to go down. Two years of increasing alienation between Trump and Congress. Then, if Democrats do their job, a 2018 election that is worse than expected for Republicans, particularly in the House which Democrats have a statistically good chance at retaking. Coupled with two years of drip-drip-drip of Trump controversy... followed by the straw that breaks the camels' back in early 2019.

So what's the exit plan? One of three options.

-> Trump sees impeachment on the horizon and resigns Nixon style.
-> Trump is removed via impeachment and conviction.
-> Republicans strong arm a would be 74 year old Trump into stepping aside in favor of Pence in 2020.

The entire stratagem must be based around getting Repulicans to conclude in Early 2019 that if they want to salvage 2020 and their careers, they are better off without Trump, one way or another.

This week... forget TrumpRussia (though Comey's testimony was a big deal)... the most important thing that happened to THAT end was the failure of Trumpcare and the fallout.

So get comfy. Get ready for two eyars of weeks like this, threads like this. This is just the beginning. If the fall of Donald Trump is a 9 inning game, we're in the bottom of the first inning, and Anti-Trump has already 5 runs, as Team Trump committed five distinct unforced errors with men on base.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm still waiting on that smoking gun evidence that ties Trump to Russia in such a grievous way that a republican held house will actually vote to impeach. Snowden was an issue that blew up in Obama's face. Republicans are now realizing these leaks are dangerous to them too. This is one of those situations where they laughed at the misfortune of others and karma is now knocking on their door.

There will almost never be any such thing as smoking gun style evidence, that would in this case be Trump admitting to collusion with the Russians or being caught on recording in communication with them. And even then, great lawyers can just argue circumstantial.

What will happen is all of the evidence being brought forward in front of Trump's closest co-conspirators, and if they think it's convincing enough, they cut a deal for testifying against him - which would be all that's needed. If even one of them is convinced that there's a very solid case, they cut deals, as anyone who refuses to, goes down with the sinking ship.

The funny part is, for as much as the Trumpkins are screaming "Conspiracy theory!" in this thread, it appears as if Flynn has been flipped, and is telling the IC what he does know, which itself is not a conspiracy in any way. The question is what DOES he know.

[NYC17]

So get comfy. Get ready for two eyars of weeks like this, threads like this. This is just the beginning. If the fall of Donald Trump is a 9 inning game, we're in the bottom of the first inning, and Anti-Trump has already 5 runs, as Team Trump committed five distinct unforced errors with men on base.

And Boris Epshteyn leaving reinforces this narrative. The special assistants are fleeing before the manager is fired.

[Skroe]

And Boris Epshteyn leaving reinforces this narrative. The special assistants are fleeing before the manager is fired.

Yep.

I keep reminding friends and family of this (because they know I moonlight for an anti-Trump group). They're all waiting for the movie-style moment of Truth. They want it ASAP.

I keep telling them, don't obsess over Trump. Don't read every editorial. Don't let your life get consumed by it. Beating Trump and the Trumpkins is a chess game, not rockem-sockem-robots. The Trumpkins are serial morons, but Bannon and his group are not. It's going to take eyars and that moment of truth will come only after Comey's testimony this week is relegated to the status to "hey remember that time Comey basically nuked the President's credibility in the first 100 days"? It won't even be in the top 10 biggest moments.

For anyone who hates Trump, let this simple thought be your guide that I've said a few times here: you don't want Trump's approval rating to dive to 25% next week, as good as that would feel. You want it to dive to 25% at precisely the right moment, when all the other pieces are in place to isolate and humilate Trump, setting the stage for his removal. What you want instead is a slow decline. If we're at 37% now, you want 33% by October. You want 28% a year from now. You want 25% 18 months from now, when the 2018 midterms are.

That's how we'll beat Trump, so to speak. Not by "smoking guns" as whatshisface (I forget/don't care) up there asked for. But by melding salami tactics with death a thousand cuts.

And it's worth noting, while the Trumpkin imbeciles are not equipped to understand, much less counter an approach like that, Bannon is, which is why the entire approach needs to be able to take blows and regenerate in unexpected directions.

[Deleted]

TIL 2013 articles based on 2012 data are relevant for 2016 and 2017 when talking about a completely different group of people.

TBH in 2017 everything on that graph would be shifted to the right.

(See what I did there? )
(damn I hate when I start chucking for my own jokes)

[NYC17]

Yep.

I keep reminding friends and family of this (because they know I moonlight for an anti-Trump group). They're all waiting for the movie-style moment of Truth. They want it ASAP.

I keep telling them, don't obsess over Trump. Don't read every editorial. Don't let your life get consumed by it. Beating Trump and the Trumpkins is a chess game, not rockem-sockem-robots. The Trumpkins are serial morons, but Bannon and his group are not. It's going to take eyars and that moment of truth will come only after Comey's testimony this week is relegated to the status to "hey remember that time Comey basically nuked the President's credibility in the first 100 days"? It won't even be in the top 10 biggest moments.

For anyone who hates Trump, let this simple thought be your guide that I've said a few times here: you don't want Trump's approval rating to dive to 25% next week, as good as that would feel. You want it to dive to 25% at precisely the right moment, when all the other pieces are in place to isolate and humilate Trump, setting the stage for his removal. What you want instead is a slow decline. If we're at 37% now, you want 33% by October. You want 28% a year from now. You want 25% 18 months from now, when the 2018 midterms are.

That's how we'll beat Trump, so to speak. Not by "smoking guns" as whatshisface (I forget/don't care) up there asked for. But by melding salami tactics with death a thousand cuts.

And it's worth noting, while the Trumpkin imbeciles are not equipped to understand, much less counter an approach like that, Bannon is, which is why the entire approach needs to be able to take blows and regenerate in unexpected directions.

Right and agreed, but in addition if this whole situation is as pervasive as it seems, Pence moving into the role isn't going to be an acceptable outcome for many. Whether he was involved to degree others were or not. I think people have this expectation that if Trump is removed everything is okie dokie, Pence assumes the presidency, and we move on. This is going to be a brutal, brutal correction.

[Skroe]

Right and agreed, but in addition if this whole situation is as pervasive as it seems, Pence moving into the role isn't going to be an acceptable outcome for many. Whether he was involved to degree others were or not. I think people have this expectation that if Trump is removed everything is okie dokie, Pence assumes the presidency, and we move on. This is going to be a brutal, brutal correction.

With the timeline were talking, if it goes exactly as I said it goes (it won't exactly of course), Pence will be President for about a year and a half. He may have an agenda, but like Gerald Ford, it'll be an effective a caretaker Presidency. Democrats and Republicans already pretty much do only Omnibus deals and Continuing Resolutions (per other threads as to why), and under Pence they would be only able to do that, especially if Democrats retake the House (better than 50/50 odds) but fail to retake the Senate (likely Republicans will hold the Senate).

Without money and with next to no political Capital, Pence would just be basically a chief administrator treading water. That's reasonable to live under until the 2020 election.

Here's another reason why i think Trump's downfall is inevitable. The 2020 election is the last election done under 2010 redistricting. Much of the most hard right Tea Party elements of the Republican Party is due to 2010 redistricting. The 2022 election, and all elections through 2030 will be done under the 2020 census/redistricting until the 2032 election is based on 2030 census/redistricting. That means that 2020 is vitally important for Republicans because state houses and governorship in that year will draw the lines for 2022 based on 2020 data. Republicans 2010 stranglehold on districts will be deeply imperiled.

Removing Trump will involve getting Republicans to turn on him. I can think of no better way than to make 2020 look like an impending epochal disaster. Republicans must be put in a position to make a choice: hope Trump can carry them through 2020 after 4 years of failure, misadventures and scandals, or one way or another replace Trump at the top of the ticket and improve their 2020 odds. That has to be the focus: get them to conclude the 2020 Ticket minus Trump is better than the 2020 ticket with Trump.

TrumpRussia (Russiagate) coming to a head in early 2019 would be a key part in doing that.

[Nadiru]

Yep.

I keep reminding friends and family of this (because they know I moonlight for an anti-Trump group). They're all waiting for the movie-style moment of Truth. They want it ASAP.

I keep telling them, don't obsess over Trump. Don't read every editorial. Don't let your life get consumed by it. Beating Trump and the Trumpkins is a chess game, not rockem-sockem-robots. The Trumpkins are serial morons, but Bannon and his group are not. It's going to take eyars and that moment of truth will come only after Comey's testimony this week is relegated to the status to "hey remember that time Comey basically nuked the President's credibility in the first 100 days"? It won't even be in the top 10 biggest moments.

For anyone who hates Trump, let this simple thought be your guide that I've said a few times here: you don't want Trump's approval rating to dive to 25% next week, as good as that would feel. You want it to dive to 25% at precisely the right moment, when all the other pieces are in place to isolate and humilate Trump, setting the stage for his removal. What you want instead is a slow decline. If we're at 37% now, you want 33% by October. You want 28% a year from now. You want 25% 18 months from now, when the 2018 midterms are.

That's how we'll beat Trump, so to speak. Not by "smoking guns" as whatshisface (I forget/don't care) up there asked for. But by melding salami tactics with death a thousand cuts.

And it's worth noting, while the Trumpkin imbeciles are not equipped to understand, much less counter an approach like that, Bannon is, which is why the entire approach needs to be able to take blows and regenerate in unexpected directions.

You're going to run into outrage fatigue with the people whom you need to reach long before your chip campaign produces the desired outcome. The NeverTrumpers have already lost a large chunk of that momentum, and it's only going to slow down further as Congress sets up for the midterms. I think your outlook is entirely too rosy on the near-term for your goals. We'll see, naturally, and I'm confident enough in my worldview to play the long game.

[Skroe]

You're going to run into outrage fatigue with the people whom you need to reach long before your chip campaign produces the desired outcome. The NeverTrumpers have already lost a large chunk of that momentum, and it's only going to slow down further as Congress sets up for the midterms. I think your outlook is entirely too rosy on the near-term for your goals. We'll see, naturally, and I'm confident enough in my worldview to play the long game.

The metrics reflect none of this. 5 months later, and concern about TrumpRussia grows, not recedes.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...mission-236470

And I don't know how you can square Trump's freefalling ratings and the growing resistance with "lost a large chunk of that momentum". That's just wishful thinking on your part.

If my post hasn't made it entirely clear, we're all about spaced out goals. Not near term goals. As I said, I don't want some silver bullet to knock Trump to 25% approval rating next week. I want a slow, painful decline. I want Trump at 25% at the worst time, not soonest time.

The only "near term" goal is to capitalize on one new TrumpRussiaGate controversy every 10 days. So far we're averaging one every six.

Drip.

Drip.

Drip.

But hey, as I wrote a bunch of pages back now, keep hoping your 2 meter by 2 meter island doesn't get washed away by one modestly large wave.

[NYC17]

With the timeline were talking, if it goes exactly as I said it goes (it won't exactly of course), Pence will be President for about a year and a half. He may have an agenda, but like Gerald Ford, it'll be an effective a caretaker Presidency. Democrats and Republicans already pretty much do only Omnibus deals and Continuing Resolutions (per other threads as to why), and under Pence they would be only able to do that, especially if Democrats retake the House (better than 50/50 odds) but fail to retake the Senate (likely Republicans will hold the Senate).

Without money and with next to no political Capital, Pence would just be basically a chief administrator treading water. That's reasonable to live under until the 2020 election.

Here's another reason why i think Trump's downfall is inevitable. The 2020 election is the last election done under 2010 redistricting. Much of the most hard right Tea Party elements of the Republican Party is due to 2010 redistricting. The 2022 election, and all elections through 2030 will be done under the 2020 census/redistricting until the 2032 election is based on 2030 census/redistricting. That means that 2020 is vitally important for Republicans because state houses and governorship in that year will draw the lines for 2022 based on 2020 data. Republicans 2010 stranglehold on districts will be deeply imperiled.

Removing Trump will involve getting Republicans to turn on him. I can think of no better way than to make 2020 look like an impending epochal disaster. Republicans must be put in a position to make a choice: hope Trump can carry them through 2020 after 4 years of failure, misadventures and scandals, or one way or another replace Trump at the top of the ticket and improve their 2020 odds. That has to be the focus: get them to conclude the 2020 Ticket minus Trump is better than the 2020 ticket with Trump.

TrumpRussia (Russiagate) coming to a head in early 2019 would be a key part in doing that.

I have a hard time believing that Americans would willfully and generally be accepting of a new president who was one of two things; complicit or mindnumbingly oblivious.

- - - Updated - - -

You're going to run into outrage fatigue with the people whom you need to reach long before your chip campaign produces the desired outcome. The NeverTrumpers have already lost a large chunk of that momentum, and it's only going to slow down further as Congress sets up for the midterms. I think your outlook is entirely too rosy on the near-term for your goals. We'll see, naturally, and I'm confident enough in my worldview to play the long game.

I dunno, contrarians seem to have this caricature-like interpretation of "outrage". Like the mere discussion and focus on it is in and of itself outrage. You're overselling the outrage fatigue.

[Skroe]

I have a hard time believing that Americans would willfully and generally be accepting of a new president who was one of two things; complicit or mindnumbingly oblivious.

Americans have delt with President's that they were rushing to the door to get rid of before. Most recently, post-Katrina and post-2006 election, George W Bush was toast. Starting with Katrina, and reaching it's crescendo the day he fired Donald Rumsfeld, the Bush transformed pretty much into a caretaker Presidency that was a spent force and everyone wanted gone, to the point that during the 2008 Financial Crisis, it was him and Democrats versus the House Republicans.

Another time was Clinton post-Lewinsky. Clinton survived Lewinsky, but it ended his Presidency in all but name, and Gore intentionally sidelined him in 2000.

It will probably be more like the former than the latter.

[Eviscero]

You all are really starting to sound like the birthers with this keep showing your true colors.

You mean.... TRUMP?!?

Keep following your supreme man-baby's example, because this



apparently gets you elected president.

[NYC17]

Americans have delt with President's that they were rushing to the door to get rid of before. Most recently, post-Katrina and post-2006 election, George W Bush was toast. Starting with Katrina, and reaching it's crescendo the day he fired Donald Rumsfeld, the Bush transformed pretty much into a caretaker Presidency that was a spent force and everyone wanted gone, to the point that during the 2008 Financial Crisis, it was him and Democrats versus the House Republicans.

Another time was Clinton post-Lewinsky. Clinton survived Lewinsky, but it ended his Presidency in all but name, and Gore intentionally sidelined him in 2000.

It will probably be more like the former than the latter.

If this ends up being what it looks like, it's not comparable. It's a foreign power colluding with a new government, and the number two person in that government would be either complicit or completely fucking oblivious.

That's not palatable for people, and that's not a partisan thing.

[Nadiru]

The metrics reflect none of this. 5 months later, and concern about TrumpRussia grows, not recedes.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...mission-236470

And I don't know how you can square Trump's freefalling ratings and the growing resistance with "lost a large chunk of that momentum". That's just wishful thinking on your part.

If my post hasn't made it entirely clear, we're all about spaced out goals. Not near term goals. As I said, I don't want some silver bullet to knock Trump to 25% approval rating next week. I want a slow, painful decline. I want Trump at 25% at the worst time, not soonest time.

The only "near term" goal is to capitalize on one new TrumpRussiaGate controversy every 10 days. So far we're averaging one every six.

Drip.

Drip.

Drip.

But hey, as I wrote a bunch of pages back now, keep hoping your 2 meter by 2 meter island doesn't get washed away by one modestly large wave.

The problem here is that the leads are starting to run dry. The only path to continuing the controversy is through this Flynn flip story. Boris Epshteyn, for example, is essentially paparazzi-tier speculation. You could conjure something up to keep the hate running but that only works for so long. Put it another way: Your plan hinges on you being able to generate at least 72 different events about Trussia (Russmp?) without people getting bored of it or without the leads drying up.

I dunno, contrarians seem to have this caricature-like interpretation of "outrage". Like the mere discussion and focus on it is in and of itself outrage. You're overselling the outrage fatigue.

Perhaps, but it's telling that in my hyper-liberal neck of the woods, moving onto a topic about Trump is increasingly met with "ugh, yes, he's an asshole, can we move on?"

[NYC17]

The problem here is that the leads are starting to run dry. The only path to continuing the controversy is through this Flynn flip story. Boris Epshteyn, for example, is essentially paparazzi-tier speculation. You could conjure something up to keep the hate running but that only works for so long. Put it another way: Your plan hinges on you being able to generate at least 72 different events about Trussia (Russmp?) without people getting bored of it or without the leads drying up.



Perhaps, but it's telling that in my hyper-liberal neck of the woods, moving onto a topic about Trump is increasingly met with "ugh, yes, he's an asshole, can we move on?"

Sure, there may be general fatigue of all things Trump. Not sure that translates to the discussion about being investigated by the FBI.

[stabetha]

You mean.... TRUMP?!?

Keep following your supreme man-baby's example, because this



apparently gets you elected president.

yeah I mean Trump, so congrats on being no better then a piece of orange shit man child.