Belarus to Tax people who dont work

[supermage]

I say round all the unemployed up and shoot them. You should not feed a parasite, you should kill it.

The real problem is, there are people even on these very boards that agree with the above.

Would be karmic justice if they lost their job and became one of those rounded up for execution. Bahahaha

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't know what's more retarded. The idea in itself, or the fact that someone asks if this "could work for Western countries"... Wtf?

Although I wouldn't hold a certain country of FREEDUMZ! above instating something like this. Not only are people poor because they're lazy, but they should have to PAY for being poor in cold hard cash!!

[Deleted]

Batka isn't exactly friend of millionaires, he detained quite a few for various misdeeds, even those coming from abroad.

"Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin warned Belarus that the arrest of the chief executive of Uralkali could strain diplomatic relations between the two neighbors."

It look like he was a Putin man and not a Batka man....

[Gaaz]

As usual, people disregard details and the actual purpose and reasoning behind this tax. Lukashenko is more intelligent than most people believe (although he indeed is hard set in the soviet ways). He would not stay in power for the last several decades otherwise.
1. This tax affects people who have not paid taxes for the past 183 days (half a year) only. This would help tax people who are not employed officially, but get their salaries "out of an envelope", i.e. unregistered, unofficial gray workforce.
2. A person that has not paid taxes either because he is working unoficially, or living from dividends from property or capital, next year are obligated to pay something like $230 in tax. That is it, an annual pay of $230. It is not crazy amount even for Belarus. Close to a monthly salary in a government employ. We have a similar structure in business organization called "single" or "unified" tax, where you do not pay income, value added or other taxes, but pay a single sum based on your total turnover. This is very simplified of course, but it works for small businesses.
3. This law does indeed hurt the lowest income category of citizens (i.e. homeless without a job). But it is not aimed at them. I am sure that in this case amendments are going to be made if they already were not included (I am too lazy to try and translate actual law complete text, google does a shitty job at it). The primary purpose of this law is to combat gray and illegal employment. Basically illegal workers. I am sure that at least people in the US can relate, especially those who support Trump's ideas as to illegal immigrants.

I don't know what's more retarded. The idea in itself, or the fact that someone asks if this "could work for Western countries"... Wtf?

Although I wouldn't hold a certain country of FREEDUMZ! above instating something like this. Not only are people poor because they're lazy, but they should have to PAY for being poor in cold hard cash!!

The funny thing is, it does work in western countries quite nicely. You are obliged to pay taxes out of your unemployment benefits in the US last time I checked. Please explain me how is it different? I mean of course, in the US you can choose not to pay this tax by not receiving benefits at all. But that just basically means that instead of a partial amount, the government gets it all.
This law in Belarus is the same! It serves a similar purpose, while at the same time targeting gray employees. Believe it or not, but unemployment pay in Belarus was tax free until recently.

[Shalcker]

"Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin warned Belarus that the arrest of the chief executive of Uralkali could strain diplomatic relations between the two neighbors."

It look like he was a Putin man and not a Batka man....

That is "coming from abroad" :P

If you want "local" there is plenty too; like actual "owner" rather then "manager" of his property he has little patience for his managers stealing from him.

[Aggrophobic]

Force people without official work to pay money actually. It has nothing to do with not having money. It's about people dodging job while still getting handouts from government.
It's old law from soviet union, implementation of this is used almost everywhere.

Sounds... great.

[Rudkobing]

This is madness!!!

Madness???

This...

is....

Sparta!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elegiac]

This law does indeed hurt the lowest income category of citizens (i.e. homeless without a job). But it is not aimed at them. I am sure that in this case amendments are going to be made if they already were not included (I am too lazy to try and translate actual law complete text, google does a shitty job at it). The primary purpose of this law is to combat gray and illegal employment. Basically illegal workers. I am sure that at least people in the US can relate, especially those who support Trump's ideas as to illegal immigrants.

Which remains a fucking stupid way of going about it.

If you want to combat illegal labor, you kill the demand for it - i.e. draconian punishments for businesses that employ them.

[JohnBrown1917]

No one asked to be born with access to running water, electricity, and other such conveniences. I am currently posting on MMOC from an internet café, using a service which I willingly paid for by spending money that I earned from providing gambling games to the homeless. I stay on the move, drink water from the river, pay no taxes, and thank god every day that I live in America; a country where I can say NO to the government taking my hard-earned dough!

Pretty sure the US has laws against that, but sure.

[Hiricine]

I wonder whats stopping you from claiming you work 90 hours a week for 1 cent with that policy.

[Morae]

Sigh...

These days it is less about who wants to work and who doesn't. Amount of jobs is decreasing. It will keep decreasing. This is due to technology and automation. Many jobs are simply unneccessary. Even, if you put people to do certain jobs, it would be far less efficient than putting machine do it. Therefore you can't even artificially "create jobs" since they will cost more than is gained from it.


Therefore this tax is idiotic. Its not like unemployed got money to pay this tax. More will turn to crime. I'm betting this causes more damage than it "fixes".

[Spectral]

Nonsense. You absolutely owe the state assuming you enjoy the protections it affords you. You have to be an incredible spoiled westerner to be able to argue you dont owe the state shit but also suck at its fucking teet for all the advantages and protections it affords you. You think people starving in zimbabwe would sit and argue about how awful the state was IF THEY COULD LIVE AS LUXURIOUSLY AS YOU DO because the state affords them advantages and protections that dont exist in 3rd world countries whos governments are not liberal democracies. I suspect they would pay their fucking taxes and be thankful malaria or bandits didnt kill them in their fucking sleep.

This tax is obviously painful stupid and deeply immoral but its not because we dont owe the state rather its because its a punitive measure against the weakest and most vulnerable elements of society at the fucking boot heel of some member of the elite. Fuck that guy.

I think you've badly missed the point of the post I linked - it's not some libertarian screed against paying taxes.

[Themius]

So people who have no money... are going to be charged money for having no money? Where's that Jackie Chan meme...?

It really makes no sense.

[Shalcker]

These days it is less about who wants to work and who doesn't. Amount of jobs is decreasing. It will keep decreasing. This is due to technology and automation. Many jobs are simply unneccessary. Even, if you put people to do certain jobs, it would be far less efficient than putting machine do it. Therefore you can't even artificially "create jobs" since they will cost more than is gained from it.

Perhaps in US it might be true in some places, but that wouldn't be true for Belarus - they certainly created lots of jobs there, they are just having trouble filling some of them - as well as trouble with extracting enough added value from them to pay for all their social programs without Russian "subsidies" .

Therefore this tax is idiotic. Its not like unemployed got money to pay this tax. More will turn to crime. I'm betting this causes more damage than it "fixes".

In Belarus "turning to crime" in any large quantities isn't really an option, their interior ministry is quite well-funded.

[Spectral]

Which remains a fucking stupid way of going about it.

If you want to combat illegal labor, you kill the demand for it - i.e. draconian punishments for businesses that employ them.

And/or just implement consumption taxes. While granting that there's still some economic activity that skips surveillance, the percentage of people in first-world countries that manage to skip both standard W-2 style taxation and buy everything they get outside of businesses that would follow sales tax laws is going to be pretty low. I wouldn't really worry about it, for the most part.

[Elegiac]

Perhaps in US it might be true in some places, but that wouldn't be true for Belarus - they certainly created lots of jobs there, they are just having trouble filling some of them - as well as trouble with extracting enough added value from them to pay for all their social programs without Russian "subsidies" .

Yeah, which is exactly why they had to reintroduce serfdom.

[Deleted]

In Australia - it doesn't matter if your income is from the dole, or from a job - you get taxed according to the same rules.

The issue here isn't that non working people are getting taxed, rather there is a specific tax on those not working.

You can't tax non-working people. If they get welfare, then you are basically just giving them less money. We have something similar in Germany. They'll try to get you to sign an agreement with which they can penalize you if you don't do what they want. That way they can take x% of the money you get each month, keep that for themselves and continue to intimidate and blackmail you. We even had people here commit suicide, because they were so desperate cause they were getting fucked by this corrupt system.

[Deleted]

Belarus is basically North Korea (a bumper state between Russia/China and the evil capitalist civilized West, ruled by a standard dictator with a minuscule penis). Knowing that, you shouldn't be shocked any any of this.

[Gaaz]

Which remains a fucking stupid way of going about it.

If you want to combat illegal labor, you kill the demand for it - i.e. draconian punishments for businesses that employ them.

That does not work in CIS countries. For example, I worked with a person from Russia who in effect was self employed underwater welder (gas pipelines). He was not registered as an employee in any company, and simply provides a service to pipeline owners. Since he is not a company or an employee of a company, pipeline owners can attribute his pay to their expenses, but do not have to deduce tax from it. Basically, his salary was tax free.
This is not a unique scenario. This situation is extremely widespread in that region. Anyone who is self employed basically does not pay taxes at all. And there is really very little you can do from the employer side in terms of "draconian measures". They are their own employees.
However, if you tax them directly, as a citizen, it becomes much more difficult to avoid taxation. Unless you do not deal with government structures at all (schools, hospitals etc.).
I know that it is not ideal. I know that it is based on a somewhat flawed system. But it does solve the problem at least partially. The only alternative would be scrapping entire tax codex and starting from scratch, as well as somehow making all self employed people, starting from a turnip growing grandma all the way to computer specialists (who are frequently self employed there), register their incomes (under a pinishment of what - jail time or draconian fines? Back to square one.).

[Lady Dragonheart]

So, they want to tax people for not having money...