European Union states reaffirm committment to united Europe

[Deleted]

The UK needed a restriction on free movement of labour, partly because border control is inbuilt into the psyches of island nations, partly due to us not having the infrastructure in place to cope with a million Poles coming to the UK in a short space of time, partly due to people not wanting their culture eroded, plus some other reasons, however for some inexplicable reason many in the EU has decided free movement is sacrosanct.

There is no legitimate reason for it to be untouchable, the views of some in the EU is bordering on religious dogmatism.

It's not dogmatic: the single market is a free market. If we impose restrictions on the movement of labor, it's not a free market. The EU has been flexible in every step of the way: rules get bent, asterisks drafted all over the place. Cameron even got a substantial agreement on a brake prior to Brexit, so the idea of it being dogma is misplaced.
Perhaps if the UK proposed to pull out of the single market altogether, something else could be arranged to have the UK remain. Alas, the UK negotiated on the basis of cake-having and cake-eating; much like every other member state. The UK then decided that her privileges were not enough.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately the EU is dealing with a rise of populist leaders, some drawing things out of context, some saying true facts. But generally the problem is that currently they are hurting not only the EU, but their countries as well.
Now, the UK, I believe, and this is only my opinion, that the UK, if unhappy about what was happening in the EU, should have used its influence to steer it to a different direction. In the end, France and Germany have done it and the UK had the power to do it as well. You decided to leave instead. And that's unfortunate. I hope it's for the best for you but... I still think that you staying and being the cynical member pointing out problems that may arise would have been more beneficial both for the EU and for you.

The problem is largely that the UK has consistently steered the EU in ways its population does not like, and then blamed the shit they were or are in favor of, on the EU.
The eastern expansion, Tony Blair's work.
the Turkish expansion, an objective of the UK for decades.
The absence of Anti dumping tariffs on Chinese steel? - The UK vetoed those.

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That is bollocks. You do not need to have an unlimited importation of workers to trade in goods or services without tariffs.

yes you do, because otherwise some countries does better, (like Germany) some countries does worse (like Greece) leading to the fact that many Greeks are unemployed, and Germany needs workers - Which is why many Greeks are moving away from Greece to be employed.
Without free movement of labor, those people would be doing what now?

[Mormolyce]

I don't believe Elon Musk would be a good political leader. He strikes me as someone that ignores everything that is beneath his big projects ( going to the mars, ubi, etc).

Honestly I can't imagine him doing worse than most world leaders.

Even if you ignore Trump.

[Kalis]

yes you do, because otherwise some countries does better, (like Germany) some countries does worse (like Greece) leading to the fact that many Greeks are unemployed, and Germany needs workers - Which is why many Greeks are moving away from Greece to be employed.
Without free movement of labor, those people would be doing what now?

How does it help Greece that their workforce is going elsewhere? And why would it need to be unlimited, rather than limited to the workers Germany needs?

[Elegiac]

How does it help Greece that their workforce is going elsewhere? And why would it need to be unlimited, rather than limited to the workers Germany needs?

Why is 'Greece' as an entity worth caring about versus its workers.

[Acidbaron]

The problem is largely that the UK has consistently steered the UK in ways its population does not like, and then blamed the shit they were or are in favor of, on the EU.
The eastern expansion, Tony Blair's work.
the Turkish expansion, an objective of the UK for decades.
The absence of Anti dumping tariffs on Chinese steel? - The UK vetoed those.

And for those reasons we have to thank the brexiters that they cut themselves out of the EU, perhaps this also finally means the UK can reform and mature politically. I do think 2 years from now they are still going to blame the EU for deals they made for at least another 2 years.

It's Europe's fault also to cater so long to the UK with special added benefits.

[Kalis]

Why is 'Greece' as an entity worth caring about versus its workers.

You are not caring for workers if they end up unemployed in another state, or if you are fucking over the existing workers in that other state by lowering their bargaining power on wages.

Congratulations on supporting a system that is designed to provide cheap labour, very left wing of you.

[Elegiac]

You are not caring for workers if they end up unemployed in another state, or if you are fucking over the existing workers in that other state by lowering their bargaining power on wages.

Congratulations on supporting a system that is designed to provide cheap labour, very left wing of you.

As opposed to a system where if they are unemployed in one state they have no option but to sit tight and suffer under their incompetent government.

At the very least in the US people in Kansas can nick off elsewhere without restriction.

[Acidbaron]

I like how the irony is completely lost on those in favor of a brexit when speaking about how the EU does not care for Greece or its workers, while it was the Brexit camp that made a big thing out of not helping Greece financially and how it that debt would once again be another burden that the poor brits would have to deal with like the rest of the EU.

But i guess at least they were showing some solidarity in their blind rage towards the EU, sadly that solidarity does nothing for the Greece population. The high ground some want to take here is as moronic as it is ironic.

[Deleted]

How does it help Greece that their workforce is going elsewhere? And why would it need to be unlimited, rather than limited to the workers Germany needs?

Greece can either be a part of the single market, which means being exposed to the full force of the 'capitalism' or it can choose to construct it's own fenced in subdivision - feel free to look at north Korea for inspiration.
It does not need to be unlimited no, however, again, the single market is designed to function as if it were one country.
its facile to suggest that 'goods' and labor are fundamentally distinct, they aren't - they are essentially the same thing.

[Kalis]

As opposed to a system where if they are unemployed in one state they have no option but to sit tight and suffer under their incompetent government.

At the very least in the US people in Kansas can nick off elsewhere without restriction.

So depress wages for all the working classes then, even for those whose government is not incompetent?

An alternative is to not have a currency that favours certain countries and allow all the countries to sort themselves out as needed, rather than screw everyone over with some retarded one size fits all approach.

You really hate the working classes for some reason, out of curiosity when did you stop being a leftie and start supporting the policies that benefit a wealthy elite? Or did you think the EU was left wing?

[Deleted]

So depress wages for all the working classes then, even for those whose government is not incompetent?

An alternative is to not have a currency that favours certain countries and allow all the countries to sort themselves out as needed, rather than screw everyone over with some retarded one size fits all approach.

You really hate the working classes for some reason, out of curiosity when did you stop being a leftie and start supporting the policies that benefit a wealthy elite? Or did you think the EU was left wing?

if Greece still had their own currency, said currency would be worthless with high inflation.
it wouldn't solve any of their problems.

[Elegiac]

So depress wages for all the working classes then, even for those whose government is not incompetent?

This is why minimum wage exists.

An alternative is to not have a currency that favours certain countries and allow all the countries to sort themselves out as needed, rather than screw everyone over with some retarded one size fits all approach.

Or, novel thought, you actually give the EU sufficient power to regulate currency and wages to ensure those sorts of gaps are not as frequent.

You really hate the working classes for some reason, out of curiosity when did you stop being a leftie and start supporting the policies that benefit a wealthy elite? Or did you think the EU was left wing?

I'm rather tired of their foolishness over the past few years. I'll still advocate for policies that benefit them, as is the ethical thing, but that does not mean I have to afford them any sort of respect.

[Kalis]

Greece can either be a part of the single market, which means being exposed to the full force of the 'capitalism' or it can choose to construct it's own fenced in subdivision - feel free to look at north Korea for inspiration.

The alternative for Greece is not to turn into North Korea.

It does not need to be unlimited no...

Well done.

...however, again, the single market is designed to function as if it were one country.
its facile to suggest that 'goods' and labor are fundamentally distinct, they aren't - they are essentially the same thing.

They are not the same thing. If I sell you an fridge, you do not need to provide it with housing, healthcare, etc. That fridge is not competing with you for employment, no employer is going to say well we would pay you €50,000 but this fridge will do it for €30,000. The fridge will not disrupt the culture of local communities.

#FridgeLivesMatter

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This is why minimum wage exists.

Everyone on minimum wage...yay!

Or, novel thought, you actually give the EU sufficient power to regulate currency and wages to ensure those sorts of gaps are not as frequent.

So more EU? That will surely work out well, what with them having demonstrated their competence over...umm...err...bugger.

I'm rather tired of their foolishness over the past few years. I'll still advocate for policies that benefit them, as is the ethical thing, but that does not mean I have to afford them any sort of respect.

Considering you are an anti-democratic authoritarian, I prefer to go with the working classes over the likes of you, regardless of whether or not I think they make silly decisions from time-to-time.

There is a very good reason that very few want your hideous brand of extremist politics.

[Zoranon]

I'm rather tired of their foolishness over the past few years. I'll still advocate for policies that benefit them, as is the ethical thing, but that does not mean I have to afford them any sort of respect.

Ah another bien-pensant goes to the people, the people tell him to stop trying to rule over them. Bien-pensant now starts to hate the people. And so the circle is completed. This crap has been happening with you far leftists for ages. And yet you keep repeating the same actions over and over again.

[Kalis]

Ah another bien-pensant goes to the people, the people tell him to stop trying to rule over them. Bien-pensant now starts to hate the people. And so the circle is completed. This crap has been happening with you far leftists for ages. And yet you keep repeating the same actions over and over again.

Their Che Guevara t-shirt will be used to mop up their tears.

[Kallisto]

There is little to no desire within the EU to reform itself. Looks at their accounts, the auditors would now be giving evidence in court if they were a company, there are too many people on the make.



The UK needed a restriction on free movement of labour, partly because border control is inbuilt into the psyches of island nations, partly due to us not having the infrastructure in place to cope with a million Poles coming to the UK in a short space of time, partly due to people not wanting their culture eroded, plus some other reasons, however for some inexplicable reason many in the EU has decided free movement is sacrosanct.

There is no legitimate reason for it to be untouchable, the views of some in the EU is bordering on religious dogmatism.

No we didn't need a removal of free movement. Culture is irrelevant, people had the same ability to up and move as poles did. Nation states and nationality is stupid and logically flawed.

There is no legitimate reason to stop me being able to move freely and work wherever I want in Europe where extended family live and work just because of petty emotional nationalism of people who can not adapt to the 21st century and deserve to be left behind if their using their emotions for reasons to not keep up.

[Kalis]

No we didn't need a removal of free movement.

Not getting that meant Brexit, so are you sure we did not need it?

Culture is irrelevant...

To you maybe.

...people had the same ability to up and move as poles did.

Who the fuck wants to move to Poland? Even the Poles do not want to live there.

Nation states and nationality is stupid and logically flawed.

The nation states allow us to have things like the NHS, defence from others who do not share your utopian view, etc., so nope.

There is no legitimate reason to stop me being able to move freely and work wherever I want in Europe where extended family live and work just because of petty emotional nationalism of people who can not adapt to the 21st century and deserve to be left behind if their using their emotions for reasons to not keep up.

You cannot have a welfare state and unlimited immigration...pick one.

[Zoranon]

Their Che Guevara t-shirt will be used to mop up their tears.

Heh probably, but it is still depressing how far in the past the far left is. Kinda funny given that they claim how progressive they are.

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No we didn't need a removal of free movement. Culture is irrelevant, people had the same ability to up and move as poles did. Nation states and nationality is stupid and logically flawed.

There is no legitimate reason to stop me being able to move freely and work wherever I want in Europe where extended family live and work just because of petty emotional nationalism of people who can not adapt to the 21st century and deserve to be left behind if their using their emotions for reasons to not keep up.

Yeah culture is so irrelevant and states with multiple cultures in them have absolutely no problems right? RIGHT?!?

Nation states are stable, multinational states are not for the most part. And you are not giving any reasons, you are just using your own feelings for what you think is right - aka emotions you so decry.

[Nitro Fun]

No we didn't need a removal of free movement. Culture is irrelevant, people had the same ability to up and move as poles did. Nation states and nationality is stupid and logically flawed.

There is no legitimate reason to stop me being able to move freely and work wherever I want in Europe where extended family live and work just because of petty emotional nationalism of people who can not adapt to the 21st century and deserve to be left behind if their using their emotions for reasons to not keep up.

Fringe views shouldn't dictate how societies are run.