New Artifact traits and the order

[Koochulu]

So has anyone found a recommended order to the new traits? With some old ones having rank 4 and then the new ones, I'd assume that the old recommended path would be altered.

[Blownload]

Path is still roughly the same. The ones with 4 ranks don't show a 4th rank until you put in your 35th point.

[Deleted]

So has anyone found a recommended order to the new traits? With some old ones having rank 4 and then the new ones, I'd assume that the old recommended path would be altered.

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-d...-traits-relics

[Deleted]

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-d...-traits-relics

Icy-Veins is completely out of date (Satyr as Neck Enchant, lol) and the artifact progression for 7.2 is false.

[Deleted]

Icy-Veins is completely out of date (Satyr as Neck Enchant, lol) and the artifact progression for 7.2 is false.

Updated for 7.2 but completely out of date, okay :-)

What's your source?

[Nemesquish]

Icy-Veins is completely out of date (Satyr as Neck Enchant, lol) and the artifact progression for 7.2 is false.

As much as I dislike Icyveins for being overall terrible, It seems to be correct on the new artifact pathing.

[Deleted]

As much as I dislike Icyveins for being overall terrible, It seems to be correct on the new artifact pathing.

The priority on Overpowered and Dead of Winter is false, they are higher priority with a BoS-Playstyle.
Progression-Order after Point 5 (Blast Radius) of the 7.2 Weapon-Tree is incorrect.

The whole guide still seems to be centered around Machine Gun which is a inferior spec, the provided Artefact-Progression is not optimal for BoS.

Updated for 7.2 but completely out of date, okay :-)

What's your source?

Yes, out of date when it comes to Enchants and Stat Prio.
Its even outdated when it comes to Relic-Choice. Blast-Radius is worth like 20 iLvL on the Relic.
The topic change from "7.1.5" to "7.2" doesn't change the fact that most portions of this "guide" are outdated.
Whats my source? The guide...

My conclusion is that the writer either does not really play DK (or the game) or continues to play Machine-Gun.

[Deleted]

The priority on Overpowered and Dead of Winter is false, they are higher priority with a BoS-Playstyle.
The whole guide still seems to be centered around Machine Gun which is a inferior spec, the provided Artefact-Progression is not optimal for BoS.



Yes, out of date when it comes to enchants and stat prio.
Its even outdated when it comes to Relic-Choice. Blast-Radius is worth like 20 iLvL on the Relic.
The topic change from "7.1.5" to "7.2" doesn't change the fact that most portions of this "guide" are outdated.
Whats my source? The guide...

Link to your source / guide that is superior to IV's?

[Deleted]

Link to your source / guide that is superior to IV's?

What do you mean with "superior"? A guide is either false or correct, this one is false.
My guide is simcraft, warcraftlogs and game-knowledge.

[gixxpunk]

As much as I dislike Icyveins for being overall terrible, It seems to be correct on the new artifact pathing.

Both, artifact path and relic choices are correct. If you are still playing OBRA then artifact path would look slightly different, but the difference is marginal.

[hasslehoof]

guide isn't wrong, but you can take a point in blast radius instead of the shitty new ones if you want immediate power and better aoe burst at the cost of delaying your gold trait, which I personally would not suggest doing seeing as how good the new gold one is.

[Deleted]

What do you mean with "superior"? A guide is either false or correct, this one is false.
My guide is simcraft, warcraftlogs and game-knowledge.

Ok so it's your personal opinion vs IV, and you're unable to link to a guide that is in your opinion more reliable than IV's one, because you have none.

I'll take IV over your personal simcraft/warcraftlogs/"game-knowledge" anyday.

Good talk!

[gixxpunk]

The priority on Overpowered and Dead of Winter is false, they are higher priority with a BoS-Playstyle.

Wrong.

BoS (ilv 900):
BlastRadius - 9,628
Ambidexterity - 8,099
ColdAsIce - 6,933
NothingButTheBoots - 6,857
OverPowered - 5,052
BadToTheBone - 4,005
DeadOfWinter - 3,166

[Deleted]

Wrong.

BoS (ilv 900):
BlastRadius - 9,628
Ambidexterity - 8,099
ColdAsIce - 6,933
NothingButTheBoots - 6,857
OverPowered - 5,052
BadToTheBone - 4,005
DeadOfWinter - 3,166
DefensiveTrait - 3,511

Nice numbers, "900 ilvL" does not say anything about the stat's used by that simulation and the simulation's parameters.
Remorseless Winter does more DPS on AoE fights and outweighs the DPS of Obliterate (especially when stacked up at 10).
Instead of using fix numbers, people should refer if their simulations represent a ST or MT scenario and if MT how many targets.
Razorice does like 1% of my DMG in Mythic NH and even less in M+, its dubious when its above Dead of Winter.

Here you can see that Dead of Winter is better in MT scenarios: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#
Not only that, but Overpowered is the third best Relic-Ability, better than all Obliterate Relics.
This is important for M+ (especially!) and most Boss fights. ST-Patchwerk fights are basically non existent in this expansion.

Now of course, we hardly get 3 Target's 100% uptime for 5 minutes, instead we typically get like 1 Target for 5+ minutes and ~3-10 Targets for about 20-30 seconds in short periods. In the end, 3 Target-Sims should yield better results than 1 Target-Sims for Mythic Raids, even Krosus has an important AoE Phase on Mythic. At the very least, people should optimize their gear for both scenarios while MT-scenarios are more frequent, hence I say that the guide is incorrect because it does not provide enough information and the information it provides is partly false (Neck-Enchants, Relic Priority).

The google.doc source in this reponse clearly proves that Blast Radius is worth about ~20 iLvL, while the guide says that iLvL should always (always!) be picked above Relic-Ability, which is completely false and can potentially have a high impact on overall DPS if the Ability is poor (ex Razorice).

[gixxpunk]

Then go on and back up your claims with numbers including differentiation between ST and AoE. My numbers are for ST and that usually is what you need at progress.

[Nemesquish]

The priority on Overpowered and Dead of Winter is false, they are higher priority with a BoS-Playstyle.
Progression-Order after Point 5 (Blast Radius) of the 7.2 Weapon-Tree is incorrect.

The whole guide still seems to be centered around Machine Gun which is a inferior spec, the provided Artefact-Progression is not optimal for BoS.



Yes, out of date when it comes to Enchants and Stat Prio.
Its even outdated when it comes to Relic-Choice. Blast-Radius is worth like 20 iLvL on the Relic.
The topic change from "7.1.5" to "7.2" doesn't change the fact that most portions of this "guide" are outdated.
Whats my source? The guide...

My conclusion is that the writer either does not really play DK (or the game) or continues to play Machine-Gun.

I agree about the neck enchant and stats, you can prob find posts of mine from months ago talking about how bad Satyr was, and from when IV had crit at 20%.

The Relics/Path seem fine, You can debate if you want to get the Blast radius before the new ones, but any other trait isnt worth, And I'll definitely be pushing for the new SF reduction traits, as will most people

[gixxpunk]

The Relics/Path seem fine, You can debate if you want to get the Blast radius before the new ones, but any other trait isnt worth, And I'll definitely be pushing for the new SF reduction traits, as will most people

Getting Blast Radius and Ambi before new ones would only make sense if there would be a progress boss you did not yet kill at the introduction of 7.2. But as the new instance is months away, delaying Thronebreaker would just be plain stupid.

[Nemesquish]

Getting Blast Radius and Ambi before new ones would only make sense if there would be a progress boss you did not yet kill at the introduction of 7.2. But as the new instance is months away, delaying Thronebreaker would just be plain stupid.

Right, especially with helm, aeven after the nerf, getting blast radius isn't really a "dumb" idea, but I wont be doing it.

I think people are undervaluing the new RE triats that you will get right away (if you have 54).

It will be pretty nice.

[hasslehoof]

Getting Blast Radius and Ambi before new ones would only make sense if there would be a progress boss you did not yet kill at the introduction of 7.2. But as the new instance is months away, delaying Thronebreaker would just be plain stupid.

You'd only ever go for Blast Radius over the new ones because of how valueable it is on a fight like say, Gul'dan. The Cleave damage for the Eyes/Parasites is very powerful, but at this point unless you're running a gimped comp I just wouldn't bother. Taking Ambi is just flat out dumb imo.

[Deleted]

Progression from 1 to 5 (new Tree) is correct, afterwards I would go:

6. Cold as Ice
7. NothingButTheBoots (if 33%+ crit)
8. Ambidexterity
9. Overpowered
10. NothingButTheBoots (if 25%+ crit)
11. DeadOfWinter
12. BadToTheBone

These are marginal differences, but will overall yield better results for M+ and most Mythic NH bosses.
NothingButTheBoots is above Ambidexterity, depending on stats. Ambidexterity's value has decreased due to the fact that Frostrike is a lot less frequent and FS has turned into a Filler-Ability literally reducing its benefits to higher offhand DMG for Obliterate. Ambidexterity loses value with every second that BoS is active (absence of Frostrikes). In short fights, its probably even behind NothingButTheBoots at ~25% crit.