How do you feel about Disc

[Popokolara]

I did the same and enjoy it, but one of the purposes of this forum as I understand it is to pool our knowledge and help each other. Part of the reason why non-Mythic Discs have to do so much personal experimentation is that much of the analysis of the spec is done by people who have no interest outside of Mythic.



What you're saying isn't true. Plenty of guilds roll through Mythic while some groups can't even handle Normal. The difficulty level of the raid is only one factor - the skill and gear level of the group are at least as important, with gear being the dominant factor as people soloing WoD bosses can tell you. In a bad enough group it's just as important to optimise for that group to succeed as it is for Sups to optimise to succeed in the progression race.

The progression race is the one thing that makes Mythic special. Without it there would be no mystification of Mythic raiding. But to the extent that people take the progression race seriously they feel that, well, like the Burst Healing Camp, the only analysis that matters is of Mythic.



That's not what happened with the logs. I was making a point using Normal, Heroic, and Mythic logs, and they said that only Mythic logs matter, so the point was invalid. That certainly seems to qualify as arrogant.

I understand that the difficulty is relative, because not alll people have the same capabilities, but if you are trying to make discipline somehow make up for people who are really bad performance wise, you will probably have a problem. And trying to use such situation and logs to make points is probably going to give you scewed results.

The mechanics do not change, the amount of mistakes does, and the ratio of spot healing - unavoidable dmg healing. If you start optimising for a case with mistakes etc, dont you need different optimisation for each circumstance? Each raid group will get its own analysis and conclusion? Also would you say that the popular burst gameplay simply will not work in any case?

You can try to do that 110% to help your friend who is doing only 30% for some reason, but that would be a combined product of your personal familiarity with their weaknesses and your proper knowledge of the spec, and certainly not a good basis for conclusions. You want a starting point. Then you shift the context to a more chaotic one and adapt. You begin with a basic but refined plan. If you start on the premise of mistake, you do not plan to deal with the original problem, but a circumstance. and your solution will almost NEVER be right for others, because no two raids are the same. Noone can really do this adaptation properly but you. Whats even the point of asking theorycrafters how to deal with a raid that falls on its sword and dies?

Now people who struggle on heroic or even normal, on fear of sounding arrogant myself, at this point of the franchise, probably fail at the base boss mechanics miserably, and are a different type of help is needed. You can play however you want and still beat the boss, no optimisation needed, apart from pain suppping that fool, and knowing when to spam smend to keep them alive.

Could you give me an exaple of disci optimisation in your opinion for a group with difficulties, apart from shadow mend emergency life saving since we all agree on that? I would like to see a solid example of said case.

In my opinion, its not that there was no proper answer given for those facing problems in the lower difficulties, but rather that the same strategy will apply, only the REAL problem is the people themselves, and the REAL solution is them improving. Shifting the need for a solution to the disc priest is an exceptionally bad move. Anyone wanting to trully help his raid will help his co raiders deal with basic issues first. The so called "Git Gud", is the hardest step of the learning process no matter how much it hurts ones ego.

[Rife]

Discipline is playing chess, while the other healers play checkers.

I guess we are still pretending disc is hard to play. okay lol.

[Popokolara]

I guess we are still pretending disc is hard to play. okay lol.

It is for me
Back for season 2?

[Atharaxie]

In my opinion, its not that there was no proper answer given for those facing problems in the lower difficulties, but rather that the same strategy will apply, only the REAL problem is the people themselves, and the REAL solution is them improving. Shifting the need for a solution to the disc priest is an exceptionally bad move. Anyone wanting to trully help his raid will help his co raiders deal with basic issues first. The so called "Git Gud", is the hardest step of the learning process no matter how much it hurts ones ego.

Do you mean for the Disc priest of Nm/Hm raid to ask his partners to stop being scrubs so he can heal with "the same strategy" (IE, burst healing) ? A world exists oustide of mythic raid and it's 98% of wow population. This world got a pretty big inertia and 4 options are open for the ordinary disc priest :

• join a mythic raid that will gracefully accept a healer from nowhere
  change his whole raid from NM scrubs to elite mythic raid
  play holy
  adapt his gameplay to this reality

Yunzi have be trying to find ways to to so. On occasions, Sups, Mend and Total have given hints of solutions but mostly have stated that the problem was difficult, irrelevant and not worthy of their time. And trolls (from both sides of the bridge) have nuked discussion to the ground.

Nm/Hm disc priest lives matter

[Popokolara]

Do you mean for the Disc priest of Nm/Hm raid to ask his partners to stop being scrubs so he can heal with "the same strategy" (IE, burst healing) ? A world exists oustide of mythic raid and it's 98% of wow population. This world got a pretty big inertia and 4 options are open for the ordinary disc priest :

• join a mythic raid that will gracefully accept a healer from nowhere
  change his whole raid from NM scrubs to elite mythic raid
  play holy
  adapt his gameplay to this reality

Yunzi have be trying to find ways to to so. On occasions, Sups, Mend and Total have given hints of solutions but mostly have stated that the problem was difficult, irrelevant and not worthy of their time. And trolls (from both sides of the bridge) have nuked discussion to the ground.

Nm/Hm disc priest lives matter

This is the type of witchhunt that has been plaguing the discussion since the start. Noone ever talked about burst healign strategy being or creating a problem. You are READY to jump on the meme etc etc.

I had NO healing coordination, NO externals and i did the burst on my OWN. And i am by no way a excellent player, not my guild. Stop the ignorant hate already

No we are talking about standing in fire, avoiding corruption and so on.

Its not a Nm/Hc lives matter, it never was. Nor M lives matter. Its irrelevant.

Hc and Nm simply dont need any kind of optimization to be beaten. They dont.So lets stop attacking people for not serving us as our living flesh AMR bot.

[Goshko]

so now that we are 3 patches into Legion, with the 4th (and most likely last) one on the horizon, how do you feel about Disc, did you stick with it, did the changes turn you off? And how do you feel about how the spec preforms? and finally what changes would you like to see either in 7.2 or beyond

I find that disc requires too much effort for too little effect compared to other healers, but I'm the only priest in the guild who bothered to even try and it's nice for some bosses so I stuck with it. It's not particularly hard or that much fun, just kind of meh once you get the feel of it. I feel more like a dps executing a rotation than a healer, and I don't particularly like dpsing (might just be me I don't know) but I knew that from the beta so...

Honestly I'm not sure what I'd like to see, I'm just kind of resigned that we'll be stuck like that for a while and hopefully changes will be made when Blizzard realizes disc is severely underplayed.

[MendUS]

Do you mean for the Disc priest of Nm/Hm raid to ask his partners to stop being scrubs so he can heal with "the same strategy" (IE, burst healing) ? A world exists oustide of mythic raid and it's 98% of wow population. This world got a pretty big inertia and 4 options are open for the ordinary disc priest :

• join a mythic raid that will gracefully accept a healer from nowhere
  change his whole raid from NM scrubs to elite mythic raid
  play holy
  adapt his gameplay to this reality

Yunzi have be trying to find ways to to so. On occasions, Sups, Mend and Total have given hints of solutions but mostly have stated that the problem was difficult, irrelevant and not worthy of their time. And trolls (from both sides of the bridge) have nuked discussion to the ground.

Nm/Hm disc priest lives matter

If you're raiding normal / heroic, it depends on your raid size tbh.

20+ man
Heal it the same way you would in 15-20 (below). Atonements will drop off if you try to Atone more than 20 people and it

15-20 man
You'll want to focus more on "burst healing" (tbh, it's not "bursts", it's healing through Atonement). Referring to it as burst healing is only partially accurate. Disc can handle healing constant raid-wide AoE damage, and should be seen as a raid healer and not a spot healer. This is because our spot healing is substantially less effective than other specs (RSham and Hpal). This doesn't mean you can't spot heal, it just means it's less effective.

10-15 man
You can spare more Shadow Mend casts (or PWR, depends on encounter) because you're needing to cast 1-2 less PWR's to Atone the entire raid. This extra mana can be expended as needed. This plays into the smaller raid size well since you are likely healing with less healers, and extra spot healing is more likely needed.

At the end of the day, you should always adjust your playstyle to what is needed. Some encounters require more spot healing, some encounters require more raid healing. If you're trying to "burst heal" (again, this isn't an accurate description of our playstyle) on a "spot heal" encounter, you're not adjusting properly. Disc has a very versatile toolkit and isn't a terrible choice in smaller raids, it's actually "easier" to play in a smaller setting since you have extra mana to expend to achieve the same results.

I pug heroic and normal weekly: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...st/#metric=hps

If you want to pick apart what I did per encounter feel free, also feel free to ask me questions about how I approached an encounter, I'm usually an open book (even if I'm rather busy >.<).

EDIT: Mythic logs are a bit shitty because I transferred and older logs aren't part of that page, so don't judge

- - - Updated - - -

I find that disc requires too much effort for too little effect compared to other healers, but I'm the only priest in the guild who bothered to even try and it's nice for some bosses so I stuck with it. It's not particularly hard or that much fun, just kind of meh once you get the feel of it. I feel more like a dps executing a rotation than a healer, and I don't particularly like dpsing (might just be me I don't know) but I knew that from the beta so...

Honestly I'm not sure what I'd like to see, I'm just kind of resigned that we'll be stuck like that for a while and hopefully changes will be made when Blizzard realizes disc is severely underplayed.

Why are you insistent on playing a spec you don't enjoy? Quit looking at Discs DPS abilities as DPS abilities and more as healing abilities. Me casting Penance on CD is no different than a Holy Priest casting PoM on CD. However, if the playstyle is an issue, Holy is a much easier spec to pick up and learn and it's a powerful healer.

Saying Disc doesn't provide any added benefit for more work is inaccurate. Disc can provide equivalent healing (if played properly and considering external mana, it's the highest throughput healer in the game) and added DPS that other healers don't bring, which can make the difference during progression content.

[Goshko]

Why are you insistent on playing a spec you don't enjoy? Quit looking at Discs DPS abilities as DPS abilities and more as healing abilities. Me casting Penance on CD is no different than a Holy Priest casting PoM on CD. However, if the playstyle is an issue, Holy is a much easier spec to pick up and learn and it's a powerful healer.

Saying Disc doesn't provide any added benefit for more work is inaccurate. Disc can provide equivalent healing (if played properly and considering external mana, it's the highest throughput healer in the game) and added DPS that other healers don't bring, which can make the difference during progression content.

Like I said - I'm already resigned it'll suck so I made my peace with it. And I can look at a shit sandwich and think it's peanut butter, but I'm still eating a shit sandwich in the end.

I can play holy just fine, thanks. The thing is since holy is fairly simple to play well so can the other priests and unlike me they are not 6 legendaries into another spec. Also they can't disc their way out of a paper bag.

Currently we have 0 owls and one ret in raid. Please elaborate on that highest throughput part under those conditions. And please stop with the disc dps thing. It was funny in EN, now it's just sad.

[MendUS]

Like I said - I'm already resigned it'll suck so I made my peace with it. And I can look at a shit sandwich and think it's peanut butter, but I'm still eating a shit sandwich in the end.

I can play holy just fine, thanks. The thing is since holy is fairly simple to play well so can the other priests and unlike me they are not 6 legendaries into another spec. Also they can't disc their way out of a paper bag.

Currently we have 0 owls and one ret in raid. Please elaborate on that highest throughput part under those conditions. And please stop with the disc dps thing. It was funny in EN, now it's just sad.

I'm sorry you feel this way. 2% of a bosses HP on M Krosus is the difference between a 2% wipe and a kill, sorry to break it to you. Our DPS goes up 14-15% with the new traits in 7.2 by the way... so you can think it's funny or sad all you want, it does make a difference.

If you think Wisdom or Innervate are required, you're dead wrong.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing

Note: PUG, Heroic, 2 Druids competing for my healing, only one mana trinket, Gul'dan (arguably the worst fight for Disc in NH), no wisdom, no innervate. Result? 90th percentile parse and beat the other healers in healing + 87M boss damage. External mana like BoW and Innervate allow you to make more mistakes and potentially cover more healing. If you don't have them, you can't make as many mistakes and get away with it.

Regardless, good luck with your endeavors as holy.

[Goshko]

I'm sorry you feel this way. 2% of a bosses HP on M Krosus is the difference between a 2% wipe and a kill, sorry to break it to you. Our DPS goes up 14-15% with the new traits in 7.2 by the way... so you can think it's funny or sad all you want, it does make a difference.

If you think Wisdom or Innervate are required, you're dead wrong.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing

Note: PUG, Heroic, 2 Druids competing for my healing, only one mana trinket, Gul'dan (arguably the worst fight for Disc in NH), no wisdom, no innervate. Result? 90th percentile parse and beat the other healers in healing + 87M boss damage. External mana like BoW and Innervate allow you to make more mistakes and potentially cover more healing. If you don't have them, you can't make as many mistakes and get away with it.

Regardless, good luck with your endeavors as holy.

I thought it was funny, now it's sad. I though I was clear on that.

External mana not required for ilvl 900+ pugs for hc Guldan, got it. Props to you for actually making an effort in an overgeared PuG btw, most don't bother.

Naah I'll stay disc, but thanks anyway.

[MendUS]

I thought it was funny, now it's sad. I though I was clear on that.

External mana not required for ilvl 900+ pugs for hc Guldan, got it. Props to you for actually making an effort in an overgeared PuG btw, most don't bother.

Naah I'll stay disc, but thanks anyway.

Nice, at least I found out you're trolling. You refuse to address anything I said (or anyone has said) and continue to meme about how bad Disc is in the face of actual evidence. I wish you luck in your memery, you are the source of entertainment for the rest of us.

Thanks for the laughs.

[Goshko]

Nice, at least I found out you're trolling. You refuse to address anything I said (or anyone has said) and continue to meme about how bad Disc is in the face of actual evidence. I wish you luck in your memery, you are the source of entertainment for the rest of us.

Thanks for the laughs.

What do you want me to tell you exactly. I gave my opinion on disc as the op asked. Your opinion was neither wanted nor needed.

Did you seriously expect to change my mind with childish condescension and tired old arguments I've red here again and again and again? I have enough experience with the spec can form my own opinions, thanks. Your opinion might have been slightly more relevant to me because of our very similar level of gear and progression (and going by logs, skill level) but ultimately you're telling me absolutely nothing I don't already know and expect me to what, have an epiphany? And if I don't immediately switch to your point of view I'm apparently trolling. Whatever makes you feel better for yourself, I'm out.

[MendUS]

I'm out.

K bye.

------

[Rife]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing

Note: PUG, Heroic, 2 Druids competing for my healing, only one mana trinket, Gul'dan (arguably the worst fight for Disc in NH), no wisdom, no innervate. Result? 90th percentile parse and beat the other healers in healing + 87M boss damage.

The problem is that if any of the other healers in your pug also ranked 90th percentile they would have stomped you.

If you played a Hpal to 90% instead of Disc you could of dropped the worst druid, gained a DPS and in effect gain more than 87m boss damage.

This argument always ends up in the same place; it's always more efficient to just run fewer optimal healers than more sub-par ones with less DPS. Showing how well a 90% disc performs compared to green/blue ranked shitters doesn't change that.

[MendUS]

The problem is that if any of the other healers in your pug also ranked 90th percentile they would have stomped you.

If you played a Hpal to 90% instead of Disc you could of dropped the worst druid, gained a DPS and in effect gain more than 87m boss damage.

This argument always ends up in the same place; it's always more efficient to just run fewer optimal healers than more sub-par ones with less DPS. Showing how well a 90% disc performs compared to green/blue ranked shitters doesn't change that.

Oh hai Rife. Glad you could make it! <3

[Jstreet]

I find that disc requires too much effort for too little effect compared to other healers

[MendUS]

I find that disc requires too much effort for too little effect compared to other healers

Have you found that Disc also provides DPS? I'm not sure why this train of thought continues to confuse people: disc brings comparable (even if sometimes lower depending on encounter) healing as other healers, as well as a not-so-insignificant amount of DPS.

If you don't want to put the extra effort in, don't. Holy is a completely viable alternative and a lot easier to pick up.

[Yunzi]

Could you give me an exaple of disci optimisation in your opinion for a group with difficulties, apart from shadow mend emergency life saving since we all agree on that? I would like to see a solid example of said case.

I believe it's usually correct to maintain 5+ atonements at all times in any sized raid, but this means that Plea is not available except at 4 or less atonements. (PWS is used to move from 5 to 6 atonements). So the only tool to deal with avoidable damage outside of Shadow Mend when PWS is on cd is Power Word: Radiance.

Here is where Shadow Covenant could have a place, if it was buffed. Power Word: Radiance however is fine to use as a reactive healing spell. Even though the two other players receiving atonement often aren't damaged, it's rare that they go the next 18 seconds without receiving some benefit from atonement.

In my opinion, its not that there was no proper answer given for those facing problems in the lower difficulties, but rather that the same strategy will apply, only the REAL problem is the people themselves, and the REAL solution is them improving. Shifting the need for a solution to the disc priest is an exceptionally bad move. Anyone wanting to trully help his raid will help his co raiders deal with basic issues first. The so called "Git Gud", is the hardest step of the learning process no matter how much it hurts ones ego.

I'm not arguing for the disc priest to take on the sole burden of improvement or suggesting that the rest of the raid should slack off. This is a Priest forum though so the focus here is on Priest performance.

[Ripert]

The problem is that if any of the other healers in your pug also ranked 90th percentile they would have stomped you.

If you played a Hpal to 90% instead of Disc you could of dropped the worst druid, gained a DPS and in effect gain more than 87m boss damage.

This argument always ends up in the same place; it's always more efficient to just run fewer optimal healers than more sub-par ones with less DPS. Showing how well a 90% disc performs compared to green/blue ranked shitters doesn't change that.

Or you removed the absorbs from the Cake and the Legendary neckless and only counted heals from the Disc toolkit, they did stomp him. Hard.

I like disc healing and think it has it's place, but it only shines in very niche situations. I begged to go shadow in most fights as we were progressing through normal because there just isn't enough predictable raid damage to justify going Disc when a druid can just throw down a green circle and heal everyone up.

Now that I'm in heroics, I'm starting to pull my weight. I imagine it would be godly in Mythics... if I did them.

Personally I think we need more in our toolkit for low damage situations. Also I feel our DPS hasn't scaled well. I used to be about 50% of a DPS, now I'm barely doing tank damage.

[Ripert]

Edit: random double post