Ted Kopple tells Hannity that Hannity is bad for America

[Mormolyce]

Koppel: “You have attracted people who are determined that ideology is more important than facts.”

[Deletedaccount1]

There's vague allegations of favoritism. Then there's the ALL RED MEAT HANNITY BLOOD LUST HOUR.

They are more than vague allegations. Koppel and others like him effectively walled off the mainstream media from everything except complete government partisanship by subtly allowing only certain types of guests, discussing certain topics and using government provided sources. This trend wasn't noticed until Chomsky and Herman did their extensive research on it.

This doesn't exist in the internet age. There are more than 3-4 TV channels now as well. Everyone who watches Hannity knows his views and so does everyone who doesn't watch him. His show also isn't a complete echo chamber as can be seen by the very existence of this thread. Hannity's show might cause people to be partisan but it is a lot less harmful than what Koppel did because it isn't subtly manipulative, it is outright as you yourself pointed out.

[Wells]

They are more than vague allegations. Koppel and others like him effectively walled off the mainstream media from everything except complete government partisanship by subtly allowing only certain types of guests, discussing certain topics and using government provided sources. This trend wasn't noticed until Chomsky and Herman did their extensive research on it.

This doesn't exist in the internet age. There are more than 3-4 TV channels now as well. Everyone who watches Hannity knows his views and so does everyone who doesn't watch him. His show also isn't a complete echo chamber as can be seen by the very existence of this thread. Hannity's show might cause people to be partisan but it is a lot less harmful than what Koppel did because it isn't subtly manipulative, it is outright as you yourself pointed out.

Who's president again?

[Macaquerie]

Maintaining a manufactured beltway consensus is much harder than you might think, because it requires both sides to resist the temptation to abuse their power when in office to turn the media into outright propaganda. The Republicans threw that out the window during the Bush era, turning outlets like Fox News into cheerleaders of the administration, shouting down and berating anyone who disagreed. As a result, they paid the price during the Obama administration, and for eight long years American conservatism was a punchline, relentlessly mocked and dismissed across the media spectrum while conservatives seethed in their little corner of the internet.

[Deletedaccount1]

Who's president again?

Are you saving Hannity is the reason Trump got elected? He has had a show on Fox for over 20 years now in which time there's been 2 Republican and 2 Democratic president​s. So unless it's Hannity that got Trump elected and not a thousand other alleged things, I don't know why you would bring that up.

[Wells]

Are you saving Hannity is the reason Trump got elected? He has had a show on Fox for over 20 years now in which time there's been 2 Republican and 2 Democratic president​s. So unless it's Hannity that got Trump elected and not a thousand other alleged things, I don't know why you would bring that up.

I'm saying Hannity's movement is demonstrably more dangerous.

[Arcanimus]

Doubt it, I tried it with friends while I was drunk.

Long story short, its fucking torture and was the first time I almost cried as an adult.

been there, didn't see what the big deal was.

[Glorious Leader]

I'm saying Hannity's movement is demonstrably more dangerous.

And i suspect chomsky and herman would agree.

[Glorious Leader]

Hannity's show might cause people to be partisan but it is a lot less harmful than what Koppel did because it isn't subtly manipulative, it is outright as you yourself pointed out.

For the people.watching hannitys show.subtelty is not necessary. To suggest koppel does more harm because hes subtle is fucking stupid to be frank. Hannity repeats manifest untruths as if they were truths and has convinced a non trivial amount of people. Ted koppel may work within the very narrow band of media availabke (as chsomky and herman point out) but hannity and fox are hyper partisan and they shift the overton window even further right.

[Deletedaccount1]

I'm saying Hannity's movement is demonstrably more dangerous.

You haven't demonstrated anything. You made a claim that Trump's victory was a result of Hannity which makes no sense because Hannity isn't watched by the moderate working class in swing states which caused Trump to win by close single digit margins.

Koppel and the media as a whole throughout the 20th century, supported and maintained Washington bureaucracy by failing to account for heterodox points of view or the larger context of issues outside of Washington and how they might be fixed. Koppel and the media's influence in this period is directly connected to large public support for the War on Terror by creating the illusion that the academy, the bureaucracy and everything in between followed the same narrative.

[Wells]

You haven't demonstrated anything. You made a claim that Trump's victory was a result of Hannity which makes no sense because Hannity isn't watched by the moderate working class in swing states which caused Trump to win by close single digit margins.

Koppel and the media as a whole throughout the 20th century, supported and maintained Washington bureaucracy by failing to account for heterodox points of view or the larger context of issues outside of Washington and how they might be fixed. Koppel and the media's influence in this period is directly connected to large public support for the War on Terror by creating the illusion that the academy, the bureaucracy and everything in between followed the same narrative.

Citing America in the 20th century as an example of Koppel being more dangerous than a movement that installed Trump in office isn't going to convince anyone.

[Deletedaccount1]

For the people.watching hannitys show.subtelty is not necessary. To suggest koppel does more harm because hes subtle is fucking stupid to be frank. Hannity repeats manifest untruths as if they were truths and has convinced a non trivial amount of people. Ted koppel may work within the very narrow band of media availabke (as chsomky and herman point out) but hannity and fox are hyper partisan and they shift the overton window even further right.

It is more harmful because one causes a population to be brainwashed and the other doesn't. When Koppel was on ABC, there were 3 and eventually 4 channels on TV that along with newspapers, were the sole sources of how people acquire information.

This obviously isn't the case anymore. A news show which appeals to partisans doesn't shift the Overton window because these people are already firmly ensconced in their bubble of information. If Hannity was a show that was watched by largely independent voters then maybe you would have a point but that isn't the case. You are letting your dislike for Hannity and your lack of knowledge of Koppel cloud the real influence they each have.

[Wells]

It is more harmful because one causes a population to be brainwashed and the other doesn't. When Koppel was on ABC, there were 3 and eventually 4 channels on TV that along with newspapers, were the sole sources of how people acquire information.

This obviously isn't the case anymore. A news show which appeals to partisans doesn't shift the Overton window because these people are already firmly ensconced in their bubble of information. If Hannity was a show that was watched by largely independent voters then maybe you would have a point but that isn't the case. You are letting your dislike for Hannity and your lack of knowledge of Koppel cloud the real influence they each have.

You wouldn't describe Hannity's faithful as "brainwashed"?

[Deletedaccount1]

Citing America in the 20th century as an example of Koppel being more dangerous than a movement that installed Trump in office isn't going to convince anyone.

I'm not talking about the movement, that is something you inserted 2 posts ago and are now using me against me. I am talking solely about Hannity's influence which you still haven't given any proof of how he installed Trump into office. I doubt you will as well because it seems too difficult for you to write a post that is longer than 2 sentences.

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You wouldn't describe Hannity's faithful as "brainwashed"?

I said:

because one causes a population to be brainwashed and the other doesn't

A news show which appeals to partisans doesn't shift the Overton window because these people are already firmly ensconced in their bubble of information

There is a difference between an entire population and a group that firmly believes something against whatever evidence is presented against them. People like you for instance.

[Wells]

I'm not talking about the movement, that is something you inserted 2 posts ago and are now using me against me. I am talking solely about Hannity's influence which you still haven't given any proof of how he installed Trump into office. I doubt you will as well because it seems too difficult for you to write a post that is longer than 2 sentences.

I don't see any value in separating Hannity from the movement he's a massive factor in. Nor do I see any sense in divorcing a president from his support base in terms of cause and effect. Every president gets into power on the basis of his supporters. That base just isn't always as malignant a cancer as Hannity and his particular brand of propaganda.

[Xargoth6634]

Whether it's Rachel Maddow or Sean Hannity, having someone argue what you believe with such eloquence and knowledge of background information

When did Sean Hannity become eloquent and knowledgeable?

[Wells]

I said:

There is a difference between an entire population and a group that firmly believes something against whatever evidence is presented against them. People like you for instance.

Except to Overton Window has been shifted. How could you look at the world around you today and think its not?

[Deletedaccount1]

I don't see any value in separating Hannity from the movement he's a massive factor in. Nor do I see any sense in divorcing a president from his support base in terms of cause and effect. Every president gets into power on the basis of his supporters. That base just isn't always as malignant a cancer as Hannity and his particular brand of propaganda.

You should see the value because this thread is about Koppel telling Hannity he is bad for America which I think is hypocritical. You are still brushing over that detail of how Hannity got Trump elected, calling him a malignant cancer doesn't accomplish that unfortunately.

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Except to Overton Window has been shifted. How could you look at the world around you today and think its not?

I didn't say it didn't shift. I said Hannity didn't shift it. You are just changing my words now.

[Wells]

You should see the value because this thread is about Koppel telling Hannity he is bad for America which I think is hypocritical. You are still brushing over that detail of how Hannity got Trump elected, calling him a malignant cancer doesn't accomplish that unfortunately.

And like I just said, wondering how a president's supporters got him elected is a weird fucking sticking point.

I mean you're completely ignoring what Koppel and Hannity's influence on their viewers engenders in the way of belief. Koppel is a somewhat right of center individual with reasonably solid journalistic ethics. People who get news from Koppel will be reasonably well informed. Hannity routinely leaves his viewers believing in the most absurd lies imaginable.

Your complaint seems to boil down to Koppel is a hypocrite because he doesn't meet some impossible definition of impartiality.

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I didn't say it didn't shift. I said Hannity didn't shift it. You are just changing my words now.

Again, this seems to require having spent the last 8 years in a coma to believe.

[melodramocracy]

Hannity is a sniveling cunt that makes a living by interrupting his guests and pretending that he "gets to the bottom of things", just like most other folks in that particular line of work. Complete waste of broadcast time.