1. #3961
    Fluffy Kitten Pendulous's Avatar
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    So this happened tonight:

    Tank is playing Zarya. I'm healing. I don't see any shields going around. It's weird. We're at Lijiang.

    We're getting stomped. Badly. The tank eventually switches off and I ask for a tank. Of course nobody does shit. We do have one guy who is just in awe at the other team's skill.

    We finally grab the second point at the last moment. Immediately, as I'm dancing around the point, everyone runs off and gets killed, one by one, away from the point, while I'm telling them not to overextend. Of course they take the point back and we lose.

    The guy "in awe" says "it didn't matter man, those guys were too good, they were masters". No they fucking weren't, nobody bothered to actually try to win, and apparently they're all illiterate.

  2. #3962
    Won the last 8 games I've played, up to 2222. Decided to take a few days off to prepare for my losing streak. Just know it's coming. First 2 games were uphill battles where we barely won, next 5 were roflstomps (enemy barely left spawn on payloads), last one we barely won KotH with 2/2 and the 5th round we won at 99/99 because Tracer followed me off the point while we still controlled and her team was running in still after our team were wiped by her (she got PotG obviously).
    Just after that, I know the losses are coming, so getting prepared.

  3. #3963
    I've decided, no more competitive for me unless I have a dedicated group doing it. the placement matches this season for me were. so. fucking. PAINFUL. 3 matches we have some jackass leave, two of those times it's from my team. and even though I managed to get golds and win half my matches I still got placed almost in Bronze, fuck the people playing this game.

  4. #3964
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    I've decided, no more competitive for me unless I have a dedicated group doing it. the placement matches this season for me were. so. fucking. PAINFUL. 3 matches we have some jackass leave, two of those times it's from my team. and even though I managed to get golds and win half my matches I still got placed almost in Bronze, fuck the people playing this game.
    Getting placed in Bronze means you didn't play nearly aswell as you probably believed you did.
    Last edited by Woobels; 2017-03-27 at 08:01 AM.

  5. #3965
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Getting places in Bronze means you didn't play nearly aswell as you probably believed you did.
    Yeah I got put in gold while losing 7 or 8 of my 10 matches, with a few being leavers.
    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Never claimed I was a genuis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    I don't give a fuck if cops act shitty towards people, never have.

  6. #3966
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    I've come to absolutely, irrevocably DESPISE Pharah, and firmly believe the game would be that much
    better off if she was never implemented into it.

  7. #3967
    Pharahs not absolutely terrible, even though she might need some kind of nerf. Just not sure what they could do to make her not absolutely useless. The hardest part of Pharah is that so few people play to counter her. Not saying people don't try at times, but the amount of people that pick 76, McCree, or even Bastion spend most of, if not all of their time, facing the ground instead of working to keep Pharah out of the sky. When I do see people try, they usually aren't that good with a hitscan (lord knows I'm not the best so I don't ridicule or judge others for it) and then they get yelled at for not locking her down. This isn't something that's that easy to do when she's pocketed. People reply with, then shoot Mercy, which doesn't always work because you've got Pharah picking off the hitscan while they try.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2017-03-27 at 07:44 PM.

  8. #3968
    Just kind of coasting along until the next event, games kind of become "Play for the event and stop playing after cause there's nothing else to do!" at least until they fix SR gain/loss, won 5 games the other day, lost 3, ended lower than I started

  9. #3969
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    The problem with Pharah is that her main counters are heroes that aren't considered 'meta'. That includes Bastion now. So basically people rely on 76, on his own to deal with her and are somehow surprised that he can't consistently win the 1v1s or 1v2s every single time. You have to adapt your team for sure, but you do that and suddenly she's entirely useless and I don't think that's entirely unreasonable particularly against Pharmercy when it's a third of their team to deal with.

    There's plenty of heroes or hero combinations you need to adapt for, like Widow, Winston, Bastion; I mean, you're even taking Reinhardt to counter Reinhardt so his isn't new or special.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-03-27 at 07:49 PM.

  10. #3970
    I like going double hitscan if no one on the team can Widow into Pharmercy, McCree/76 together make it pretty difficult for her to fly around, and McCree deals with Mercy better than 76.

    If you do have a Widow player in your squad you should put some trust into her because there's a good chance that he'll be so oppressive for the Pharah that everyone else can deal with her better.

  11. #3971
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The problem with Pharah is that her main counters are heroes that aren't considered 'meta'. That includes Bastion now. So basically people rely on 76, on his own to deal with her and are somehow surprised that he can't consistently win the 1v1s or 1v2s every single time. You have to adapt your team for sure, but you do that and suddenly she's entirely useless and I don't think that's entirely unreasonable particularly against Pharmercy when it's a third of their team to deal with.

    There's plenty of heroes or hero combinations you need to adapt for, like Widow, Winston, Bastion; I mean, you're even taking Reinhardt to counter Reinhardt so his isn't new or special.
    It's more that her counters aren't true counters. The idea of a "counter" is a rock-paper-scissors deal, where if they play the Pharah-rock, you would want to play the Paper that they can't deal with. With Soldier 76 and McCree, they're just other rocks, not paper. An equally-skilled Pharah has a good chance at killing either of them and avoiding getting shot out of the sky. So telling people "go Soldier and counter Pharah" doesn't work, because he's not a true counter. He CAN shoot back, but it's a tossup. If the Pharah's better at Pharah than whoever swapped to Soldier is at Soldier, Pharah's probably not countered.

    This gets exacerbated when Mercy pairs herself with Pharah, because Soldier 76 can't readily shoot either of them down before Pharah kills him.

    I haven't mentioned Bastion, because Bastion is a counter to Pharah. He has way more health than Soldier, and his self-heal is better and more available (recharging total, no CD). Bastion can better keep fire on Pharah, in Recon mode, than Soldier can, and Soldier's advantages (sprint, AoE heal, Helix Rockets) aren't hugely useful against a Pharah to begin with.

    We just need more counters to Pharah. That'll be enough. If I wanted to fix anything, really, it would be the Pharah-Mercy combo. Maybe don't let Mercy use her Dash again until she touches down. For basically anything BUT Pharah, that's irrelevant; it just stops her flying around with Pharah constantly. And we need people to realize that you don't just have one guy swap to a hitscan and expect that this means Pharah is shut down. If it's just that people aren't shooting the Pharah, then that's not a balance issue, that's a player skill/awareness issue, and nerfs or buffs can't fix that.


  12. #3972

  13. #3973
    Fluffy Kitten Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You got more kills than me (though I killed an ulting McCree), but ALL THE ASSISTS!

  14. #3974
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    You got more kills than me (though I killed an ulting McCree), but ALL THE ASSISTS!
    I think the only real noteworthy thing that I was happy about was vacuuming the two together.

  15. #3975
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    @Endus there's no such a thing as a true hard counter in this game. Being a counter just gives you an advantage and being hitscan gives you an advantage over Pharah. Every hero has the potential to outplay their counter and win, I outplay Winston's and DVas with Widow, I've seen plenty of Genjis take Winston's apart and so on.

    You never have that 100% guarantee of wining. And sure, Mercy makes it harder but then you're up against 2 players with good synergy; in any other part of the game that kind of thing always takes 2 or 3 players to break up. Why should it be different for them just because they fly?

    We have 76, Bastion, Widow, McCree, Ana, Zenyatta direct counters, and Torbs Turret can zone her really well, Sombra can do a fair job on most maps, and now Orisa to keep their heads down. There's plenty of counters; but when only 1 or 2 "acceptable" to have on your team then that's not a hero issue.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-03-28 at 07:00 AM.

  16. #3976
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I like going double hitscan if no one on the team can Widow into Pharmercy, McCree/76 together make it pretty difficult for her to fly around, and McCree deals with Mercy better than 76.

    If you do have a Widow player in your squad you should put some trust into her because there's a good chance that he'll be so oppressive for the Pharah that everyone else can deal with her better.
    Sadly in Plat and below you will always have an Insta-locked Genji or Hanzo guaranteed. The chances of said player changing are slim to toxic none.

    As others have said the biggest issue isn't Pharah it's this perceived notion Soldier is a hard counter. He isn't, when you get 3/4 man pre-mades whining all game who don't change once, you see the problems and why Pharah is considered OP.

  17. #3977
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The trick is to be the amazing Widow.
    No, the trick is to be winston!

  18. #3978
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    No, the trick is to be winston!
    Had a match last, I countered their Pharah so hard hey went Winston. The rest of my team kept Winston from ever getting near me.

  19. #3979
    The Mercy + Pharah combo is definitely in need of a proper counter. Some sort of anti-air hero would be neat - though I'm not entirely sure how it'd work without bringing forth the same problems Pharah is known for. She can be countered but it's a lot harder to do so in open stretches of a map when the rest of her team need to be dealt with first.

    What needs to be considered is that her original counters were designed with her original limitations and movement speed in mind. Now that she's faster and can stay in the air for much longer she's a much better counter to her supposed counters.

  20. #3980
    Fluffy Kitten Pendulous's Avatar
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    Just in case you haven't tuned in, Hanzo's projectile hitbox is still stupid bullshit. That is all. Carry on.

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