Tier 20 Set Bonusses - Rogue

[Deleted]

PB is supposed to proc about once every minute (ignoring haste here as it is a shit stat as of now). Now if you have 12.5% per finisher, that means we can expect one in eight finishers to proc a PB. Now looking at a random, cherrypicked exact 5 minute M-Krosus fight from WCL, the rogue there used about 60 finishers which means the expectation is ~7-8 PB procs, contrary to the 5 PB procs he would get in the current system. If it was 15% he would get about 9 PB procs. It's a huge difference, but whether it is 12.5% or 15% it is still more than now, not even considering the "good-luck-protection" gating us from getting another procc just when the a large pack of adds spawns in the current system. I mean there is nothing more frustrating than getting a proc two envenoms before Aluriel's adds spawn and then when they actually spawn you already know you emptied the RNG bottle. Obviously, it is much stronger in M+ now as well.

RNG is still RNG though of course. I'd still prefer to have full control over that spell.

Yep - it sounds really nice. One question that comes up now: Do we ONLY use 5 CP finishers with this patch? Because currently I am sometimes doing 4 CP finishers too (e.g. in cases where SoT dropped off already and you want to renew it) and super rarely 3 CP finishers.

[DakonBlackblade]

Yep - it sounds really nice. One question that comes up now: Do we ONLY use 5 CP finishers with this patch? Because currently I am sometimes doing 4 CP finishers too (e.g. in cases where SoT dropped off already and you want to renew it) and super rarely 3 CP finishers.

Doesn't seen like a good idea to use a FoK and waste energy and a GCD just so you can use a 5cp finisher, I need to check simulations and whatnot but Id think the optmal will still be using 4 or 5 cps finishers.

[scarfdeath]

looks like its going live like this....

[omeomorfismo]

Yep - it sounds really nice. One question that comes up now: Do we ONLY use 5 CP finishers with this patch? Because currently I am sometimes doing 4 CP finishers too (e.g. in cases where SoT dropped off already and you want to renew it) and super rarely 3 CP finishers.

it was always 4+, the difference in envenom damage is even bigger than a 3+ strategy (clearly without deeper stratagem)
basically with 5only you waste too much cp

[Darkkz]

looks like its going live like this....

As I said a million times before.. there's no 'it's only alpha/beta/ptr'. It was obvious it is going to come out as shit.

[DakonBlackblade]

As I said a million times before.. there's no 'it's only alpha/beta/ptr'. It was obvious it is going to come out as shit.

The tier sets are ages away from release, Blizz was very clear in saying none of the bonuses are placeholders but none of them are finished either. We are getting 1 part that reduces Garrote Cd and 1 that increases Garrote damage, the question is, will the Garrote CD one also get an instant damage component to it and how much will the Garrote damage one increase Garrote damage ?

[Deleted]

People who switched from Outlaw to Sin for numbers, and want to re-switch on Outlaw because of the T20 set only ARE NOT genuine Outlaw players !

We don't want you, stay Sin !

[Verdugo]

We don't want you, stay Sin !

If I wanted to play Casino, it would be one where I at least had a chance to win.

[ymirsson]

People who switched from Outlaw to Sin for numbers, and want to re-switch on Outlaw because of the T20 set only ARE NOT genuine Outlaw players !

We don't want you, stay Sin !

That's specializationism.

[Kalador]

People who switched from Outlaw to Sin for numbers, and want to re-switch on Outlaw because of the T20 set only ARE NOT genuine Outlaw players !

We don't want you, stay Sin !

LoL, hate to break it to you but most rogue will just play whatever do best in the tier, NH was mostly about sin and sub, so most player played either sin or sub. If outlaw becomes the best spec in tomb, a good part of rogue player will go outlaw, WE ARE ROGUE after all, switching between spec for a pure dps class is kinda part of the deal.

[Deleted]

Well tbh AP system and legendary system realy fucked up the life for pure DPS classes, we have to take 1 spec, hope its the most viable and stick to it to be optimal. A spec change later on sure can give a benefit if you guessed wrong from start, but its still would been better if you guessed correct early on.

Beside that the t20 setbonus for assasin is the most boring setbonus so far. Realy dont like it, not aftyer a realy good and interesting t19 bonus.

[Deleted]

T19 wasn't really interesting though. It can be translated into: "Mutilate and Envenom damage increased by 30%", because they are both passive and present using our normal rotation. It does not influence our playstyle at all. And its implementation was even worse and caused a lot of confusion.

[Jaronicity]

Well tbh AP system and legendary system realy fucked up the life for pure DPS classes, we have to take 1 spec, hope its the most viable and stick to it to be optimal. A spec change later on sure can give a benefit if you guessed wrong from start, but its still would been better if you guessed correct early on.

Beside that the t20 setbonus for assasin is the most boring setbonus so far. Realy dont like it, not aftyer a realy good and interesting t19 bonus.

At least if you've gotten at least 2 weps to 35+ traits you can kind of still pick and choose a bit (36 ideally for the second damage boosting trait). I've done that with Sub and Assassination. I've got 36 in assassination weapon and 51 in sub (we won't talk about Outlaw) so I'm hoping that I can micromanage it a bit and hold off until I see how far apart everything is once the dust settles. At the very least they'll both have the 15% damage and 10% stamina boost unlike now where the discrepancy is about 9% damage between them.

Re: sets, I have found that, by and large, many of the bonuses across the classes seem boring and uninspired. I've played mostly a Sub rogue this expansion with a good chunk in Assassination and I am not thrilled about either of their bonuses. I see the merit of the garrote bonus and the reduction on Symbols of sadness, but it just doesn't make for adapted gameplay. In fact, the Sub one is basically, 'now for realsies you can just macro SoD to ShD and fuggedaboutit!' And then its just get your 3 ShS in for the auto crits.

[ymirsson]

Well tbh AP system and legendary system realy fucked up the life for pure DPS classes, we have to take 1 spec, hope its the most viable and stick to it to be optimal. A spec change later on sure can give a benefit if you guessed wrong from start, but its still would been better if you guessed correct early on.

But that is true for any spec. AP and legendaries are important for any hybrid class too.

[shaunika123]

But that is true for any spec. AP and legendaries are important for any hybrid class too.

yes but a retri paladin or a havoc DH doesnt have to wonder about which of their 3 dps specs is gonna be the best before investing their time into it.

[ymirsson]

yes but a retri paladin or a havoc DH doesnt have to wonder about which of their 3 dps specs is gonna be the best before investing their time into it.

Yeah, if their DPS spec is bad, they can simply roll into a ball and weep. There is no substantial difference. You choose a spec, invest time a nd resources and hope it doesn't turn out below average. That's true for hybrids, pure DPS, for DPS, heal and tanks. One could say it's applicable for everyone.

[shaunika123]

Yeah, if their DPS spec is bad, they can simply roll into a ball and weep. There is no substantial difference. You choose a spec, invest time a nd resources and hope it doesn't turn out below average. That's true for hybrids, pure DPS, for DPS, heal and tanks. One could say it's applicable for everyone.

yes but that's the point, blizzard *probably* wont allow their one spec to be THAT bad (they havent so far) but if a 3 dps spec has one good dps spec they wont mind the other two sucking

thankfully all 3 rogue specs are relatively good right now.

but you can just look at mages for EN for example, they didnt mind frost and arcane sucking cos fire was borderline OP

[ymirsson]

yes but that's the point, blizzard *probably* wont allow their one spec to be THAT bad (they havent so far)

To be what bad exactly? For about 95% of all content, all specs are equally viable.

[shaunika123]

To be what bad exactly? For about 95% of all content, all specs are equally viable.

and for that the argument is moot anyway, obviously it's about cutting edge mythic and being forced to stick to 1 spec.

[Xanatu]

yes but that's the point, blizzard *probably* wont allow their one spec to be THAT bad (they havent so far) but if a 3 dps spec has one good dps spec they wont mind the other two sucking

thankfully all 3 rogue specs are relatively good right now.

but you can just look at mages for EN for example, they didnt mind frost and arcane sucking cos fire was borderline OP

I don't feel like all 3 rogue specs are good right now, honestly. If I wanted to make the switch from mut to outlaw or sub it'd be a 3 month journey to farm up the legendaries needed to play either spec at a reasonable level. Mut is the only one that can be played without BIS leggos.

- - - Updated - - -

People who switched from Outlaw to Sin for numbers, and want to re-switch on Outlaw because of the T20 set only ARE NOT genuine Outlaw players !

We don't want you, stay Sin !

You can eff off man. I played outlaw longer than I had any business to; I made it through 8 mythic bosses with ring and KJs. That spec is a fucking liability and I'm not holding 19 other people back because Blizzard refuses to make it viable. I'm an outlaw rogue at heart but at some point you need to reflect on what's best for your group, and it's not outlaw unless you're very fortunate.