Has it always been like this?

[Sencha]

Until MoP I never went to the forums because I was enjoying the game. Since WoD I come to the forums and comment how casual the game has become.

[Cuppy]

Yes, always the same. Different people, same whines. I bet you can find similar threads from wow forums from the days of vanilla.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

More or less. My main problems with Legion are centered around how unfriendly the artifact system is towards offspecs and alts, and this is further compounded by legendaries. The sheer amount of grinding necessary to keep multiple characters and specs competitive is far greater than it was in previous expansions, thanks to AP and Legendaries.

Part of the problem is that Blizzard tends to swing from one extreme to the next, without ever really pausing in the middle. WoD had hardly anything worth doing, so in Legion practically everything is worth doing. Now you don't run out of stuff to do, you just wind up burnt out from an excess of stuff to do. Overall I want to like Legion, but the grind is just too much for me. I like playing multiple specs, the legendary and AP system severely penalize you for doing that.

[Eleccybubb]

There are a lot of jaded haters who say they "quit" the game, but they keep coming here to dog on any aspect of it. You learn to just zone them out after awhile.

Pretty much this.

[satimy]

The community here seems extremely negative, calling Legion one of the worst expansions pretty regularly at this point, I really can't understand that, it's as if they hate WoW now but can't see it so they choose to keep blaming the game.

I started reading these forums regularly when WoD hype was real, so I understood the hate WoD got and I passed it off as the expansion just lacking much of anything to do.

But now... my question to some of the mmo-champion vets who don't hate Legion with a bloody passion is, is it truly like this every expansion? Has the community grone more cynical and negative over time?

No the game just hasn't been goood

[ls-]

Yeah, according to forums current version of the game always was, is and will be the worst.

Even Vanilla was shit

[Deleted]

Yeah, each expansion has been ruining the game since BC came out. I wasn't here for Vanilla but I'd imagine each patch was the worst they'd ever seen. Wrath, now considered by many to be the pinnacle of WoW, was at the time decried as completely ruining the game every few hours on the forum.

Vanilla was actually kinda shit for basically 95% of the community. It was grindy, tedious and difficult to get into raids and even dungeon groups, PVP was almost non-existent, dogshit balanced and also extremely grindy. Almost all content was exclusive to basement dwellers. It was new and that's the only reason it got a 'pass'. People who say it was good are delusional.

BC improved the game for casuals and so did wrath. Didnt see much crying during BC and most of Wrath at all. Crying started with the release ToGC in late wrath. A lot of people threw hissyfits and quit when ToGC got released. Then came LK and suddenly the game was amazing again and everyone who quit made a return and started praising the game to heaven and beyond. But after Wrath there has been a fuckton of crying. Whole cata was a cryfest, MoP was a cryfest, WoD was dogshit so that I understand. Legion is in my opinion the best thing since Wrath so I don't get why people are crying when the game is actually improving from the last 3 expansions.

[Bepples]

"People have always been complaining just as much in every expansion" is a common view around here.

It's only partially correct.

Yes, you will have a subset of people complaining about the state of things at any given time. There really are two sides to every issue. Take the most beloved, praised product of all time and you will find at least a small number of people who hate it. Take the most detested, reviled product of all time and you will find at least a small number of people who love it.

In the context of World of Warcraft, I GUARANTEE you there are people who think WotLK was by far the worst expansion, as well as people who think WoD was by far the best. Hell, you might even find people who believe both of those things. There truly is no such thing as something universally loved or universally hated.

HOWEVER: The "just as much" part is false. This is more of a subjective area, but during times when the game is doing badly there is noticeably more complaining on the forums. For example, during WotLK you did have people who absolutely detested the expansion, mostly for vague nonsense about "casualisation" and the like. But the forums weren't highly toxic or anything; you just had some dissent. That's normal. Jump two years ahead to late Cataclysm and the forums WERE toxic, in the sense that there was a constant stream of hate directed towards the expansion from many different sources. And the game lost a lot of players in that period, too. It was very evident that the expansion wasn't well liked, and it wasn't just the "same-old whiners who don't like change".

Same for MoP and WoD. MoP got complaints just like any other expansion: a large volume of dailies at the start, the first tier being pretty inconsistent in its quality, Pandaren as a focus and theme, a handful of badly-tuned specs. The usual, really. Whereas a year into WoD it felt a lot like Cataclysm where negative opinion about the game dominated the forums.

It's quite a noticeable difference on the forums between times when people are generally positive about the game and times when people are feeling negative about the game. I don't think it's a simple constant level of dissent at any given time.

As for Legion? People were definitely really positive about this expansion and a lot of people still are, however I feel like they are losing that goodwill over time. It seems like everyone has that "one thing" in the game that they hate so much that it sours the rest of the game for them, no matter how much they enjoy those other aspects. I think this having a worse effect than it ever has before because it feels as though before WoD Blizzard was very ready to admit when a certain system/mechanic/idea wasn't working out and you could count on them to make a fair compromise on any of the game's issues, whereas post-WoD it feels as though the people in charge are VERY unwilling to admit fault or compromise on anything they've designed. As a result, small annoyances become big issues because players feel as though they will NEVER be fixed.

[Talvindius]

It's a case of the vocal minority versus the silent majority. There are way more people enjoying their game in peace while a select bunch come here to complain about legendary RNG, grinding in an MMO (how dare they!), how the game is either too easy or not easy enough, it's endless.

Legion is legitimately one of the best expansions to date. The pros heavily outweigh the cons and it has longevity that will no doubt even rival Vanilla. People can feel free to complain and call it bad but they're only fooling themselves. WoW might not get any better than this so it's a good time to just play the game and enjoy it now.

[Fennixx]

Legion would be fine if it wasn't for all the RNG and excessive grinding. People are vocal when they are displeased with something. If you are pleased, you probably have to reason to complain and therefore don't post.

There is no excessive grinding outside of WF race, which always been brutal. Split raids and demanding multiple alts (all 4-5 tanks,anyone?) are way more detrimental to the game and its on community side.

BiS legs are not that far from utility ones come 7.2. They`re not needed unless you want to clear M NH within the first 1-2 months.
WF/TF are a nice bonus from a worthless run. It`s not needed for progression and should not something players aim to get.
Amount of raid preparation is pathetic compared to Vanilla or TBC.
You dont need to grind reputation for end game content.
There are no gated profession stuff.
You dont need to run 4 different lockouts to get BiS gear.

I dont get where this 'absurd grind' comes from, maybe from MoP`s crybabies?

OT,its always been this way. "Current xpac is always the worst ever ever ever and Blizzard sucks". And they are still playing the game lol

[Deleted]

But now... my question to some of the mmo-champion vets who don't hate Legion with a bloody passion is, is it truly like this every expansion? Has the community grone more cynical and negative over time?

It is not just cynicism and negativity, thing is the game changes A LOT from expansion to expansion, and some of the changes are game-breaking for a lot of people.
I started playing in MOP, 10-man raiding with a SP and getting flying as soon as i hit max level.
Nowadays it is nearly imposible to convince anyone to do heroic with just 10 players, and 10-man Mythic raiding (Heroic in MOP) is gone, flying is not something you just buy at max level, and i do not like the current incarnation of SP, which i loved in MOP.
Thankfully i am loving MYthic+, i am liking my new main (WW), and i do like this expansion a lot, but i get that other people might be having a lot of issues with this expansion additions/changes.
As i said i am enjoying this expansion a lot, but i am well aware, that i might not like next exp at all, because that is the way this game is.

[ls-]

Vanilla was actually kinda shit for basically 95% of the community. It was grindy, tedious and difficult to get into raids and even dungeon groups, PVP was almost non-existent, dogshit balanced and also extremely grindy. Almost all content was exclusive to basement dwellers. It was new and that's the only reason it got a 'pass'. People who say it was good are delusional.

BC improved the game for casuals and so did wrath. Didnt see much crying during BC and most of Wrath at all. Crying started with the release ToGC in late wrath. A lot of people threw hissyfits and quit when ToGC got released. Then came LK and suddenly the game was amazing again and everyone who quit made a return and started praising the game to heaven and beyond. But after Wrath there has been a fuckton of crying. Whole cata was a cryfest, MoP was a cryfest, WoD was dogshit so that I understand. Legion is in my opinion the best thing since Wrath so I don't get why people are crying when the game is actually improving from the last 3 expansions.

People who weren't new to MMOs were often complaining about WoW being too casual, and yet unbalanced af

TBC was quite entertaining Esp when Blizz removed attunements for BT, omg, forums were filled w/ butthurt raiders saying something like "but mah raid progression!! casual filth shouldn't have it!!!"

During WotLK people whined A LOT about Ulduar, people hated Levi fight, that's the reason why we don't get vehicle fights in raids anymore, people also complained about Ulduar HMs, people didn't like that there's no proper switch between HM and non-HM, many guilds were enabling HMs accidentally and had hard time progressing through the raid. As for ToGC, there's another common complaint about it, people didn't like that it made Ulduar irrelevant way too fast.

[Fennixx]

It's a case of the vocal minority versus the silent majority. There are way more people enjoying their game in peace while a select bunch come here to complain about legendary RNG, grinding in an MMO (how dare they!), how the game is either too easy or not easy enough, it's endless.

Legion is legitimately one of the best expansions to date. The pros heavily outweigh the cons and it has longevity that will no doubt even rival Vanilla. People can feel free to complain and call it bad but they're only fooling themselves. WoW might not get any better than this so it's a good time to just play the game and enjoy it now.

Ditto.

I`d add. On any RPG, at least the old japanese-style ones. If one doesn`t like to grind for character progression, just go play CoD or some stupid MOBA.

[Fatel]

The community here seems extremely negative, calling Legion one of the worst expansions pretty regularly at this point, I really can't understand that, it's as if they hate WoW now but can't see it so they choose to keep blaming the game.

I started reading these forums regularly when WoD hype was real, so I understood the hate WoD got and I passed it off as the expansion just lacking much of anything to do.

But now... my question to some of the mmo-champion vets who don't hate Legion with a bloody passion is, is it truly like this every expansion? Has the community grone more cynical and negative over time?

Welcome to the Internet, son...

[Deleted]

People who weren't new to MMOs were often complaining about WoW being too casual, and yet unbalanced af

TBC was quite entertaining Esp when Blizz removed attunements for BT, omg, forums were filled w/ butthurt raiders saying something like "but mah raid progression!! casual filth shouldn't have it!!!"

During WotLK people whined A LOT about Ulduar, people hated Levi fight, that's the reason why we don't get vehicle fights in raids anymore, people also complained about Ulduar HMs, people didn't like that there's no proper switch between HM and non-HM, many guilds were enabling HMs accidentally and had hard time progressing through the raid. As for ToGC, there's another common complaint about it, people didn't like that it made Ulduar irrelevant way too fast.

Haha I forgot about Ulduar HM's. Yep, you're right Ulduar was a cryfest, too. I remember now. xD

But lets be fair the crying wasn't AS BAD then as its been since cata and forward. It's something extreme now.

[Varitok]

Yes, it was always pathetic crybabies everywhere.
The difference is that the focus and topics of whine have become far more ridiculous, petty and absurd, while actual discussions have become rare.

Yeah, calling people with complaints over the rng systems in this expac "Pathietic Crybabies" is the reason you have no actual discussions. The blame goes both ways.

[Moozart]

The community here seems extremely negative, calling Legion one of the worst expansions pretty regularly at this point, I really can't understand that, it's as if they hate WoW now but can't see it so they choose to keep blaming the game.

I started reading these forums regularly when WoD hype was real, so I understood the hate WoD got and I passed it off as the expansion just lacking much of anything to do.

But now... my question to some of the mmo-champion vets who don't hate Legion with a bloody passion is, is it truly like this every expansion? Has the community grone more cynical and negative over time?

One thing i have noticed is that many of the complainers (Not saying all) are people who cant seem to get into good guilds for progression (this could be from any number of reasons, they are bad, schedule, decided to play wrong class, bad). People who try to do nothing but pug. People in general that for whatever reason cant seem to get the top gear and in turn instead of looking at themselves turn it back on blizz.

As with anything it will seem like there are more complainers because people who complain make the most noise, this mimics real life. The people that are content are just that, they tend to not go out of there way to let people know they are happy about it.

When the game doesn't cater to an individual that feels entitled the complains will rush out. (Mommy, where does LFR come from)

[otro]

Stop crying, legion is pretty good (minus all the gear rng imo) and will be remember as one of the best expacs. bet on it

[Osmeric]

No expansion ever does everything right for everyone. There are always tradeoffs, and dev resources are always finite. So some people will complain.

What matters is the overall level of satisfaction. Legion appears to me to have had the dev resources reduced further, which makes the tradeoffs more painful.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing i have noticed is that many of the complainers (Not saying all) are people who cant seem to get into good guilds for progression (this could be from any number of reasons, they are bad, schedule, decided to play wrong class, bad). People who try to do nothing but pug. People in general that for whatever reason cant seem to get the top gear and in turn instead of looking at themselves turn it back on blizz.

If I were not in a pleasant guild on my main I would likely have unsubbed by now, so I can understand this. As it stands, the expansion is going pretty well for me. Shame about the state of casual PvP though.

[ryanmahaffe]

So, it does seem Legion is generally liked by the majority of the games population, but forums are just a constant home for people who are unhappy or hate the game to vent and give reasons why they "quit"

Legion does have flaws, but they certainly don't outweigh the positives in my opinion.