Anybody else disappointed with the Paragon System

[therealbowser]

If the issue isn't "it's too much work", what is the issue?

-RNG? Cause if so, my point still stands. It is exactly like any other RNG mount(raid/world boss mounts)
-Gated? If so, my point still stands. It is exactly like any other gated mount(Argent Tourney/Firelands dailies/etc)
-Combination of both? See above.

The issue is that people want to know how much work they have to put towards something before they attain the reward. If you feel like this is irrelevant I don't know what to tell you. You seem really obstinate about it. But I'll try.

There are a lot of people who have issue with the system; even in the case of RNG, most systems have ways to measure how long it will take. A good comparison is the legendary quest chains where you kill a boss and have a 50% chance to have an item drop, and need x amount of them, as opposed to the final raid boss having a flat % chance of dropping the legendary. In this way, you know -- roughly -- how long it will take to get the legendary and plan around it instead of just praying it will finally drop for you.

Hell, even bonus loot chances and all sorts of things have been added because pure RNG is horrible. There are a lot of people who dislike systems that focus too heavily on RNG and this is no exception. If you have no issue with it, that's cool, but you are certainly not the only person playing this game. There are plenty of people who prefer other methods that use less random and give more of an idea of how much work is required.

Go look at how people felt about the Time Lost Protodrake and the Green one that dropped from the egg in Sholizar Basin for great examples of how bad the RNG system can be. It's always more enjoyable if you know -- or have a vague idea -- of how long it will take you, instead of "it could be today, or it could be years later" -- or in this case, an hour of gameplay weeks of gameplay. Most people would simply prefer to know they need to work a certain period of time instead of potentially dumping tons of time into something that may never show up.

The simplest way to put it is that some people like to work towards a solid goal. I do not know how more simply I can put this than this.

Regardless, I can respect your opinion. If you feel it's not necessary, that's fine. But if you cannot even acknowledge why people might feel this way, then that is simply crazy. That is an extremely narrow view on mechanics. People not wanting to put in the work, and people wanting to know that they'll get something out of the work for certain -- specifically within a certain amount of effort -- is dramatically different. Pretending the two are one and the same is a tremendous logical fallacy, and highly irrational thinking.

[Renley]

I don't mind Argent mounts because it had a guranteed end

Right. I compare these mounts to those in the sense that they both have a long "gate" to work through in order to unlock the mounts. Then it has the added boss drop RNG tagged on.

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+1

With the 7.2 system you can grind and quest all you want but there is a chance you will never get it. That is stupid. Keep this to 1% mounts in instances and raids. Don´t change a system that worked for years.

It's the same system as instance/raids, you just now can passively work towards them/do other content on a daily basis, rather than same instance every week.

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The issue is that people want to know how much work they have to put towards something before they attain the reward. If you feel like this is irrelevant I don't know what to tell you. You seem really obstinate about it. But I'll try.

.....

Regardless, I can respect your opinion. If you feel it's not necessary, that's fine. But if you cannot even acknowledge why people might feel this way, then that is simply crazy. That is an extremely narrow view on mechanics. People not wanting to put in the work, and people wanting to know that they'll get something out of the work for certain -- specifically within a certain amount of effort -- is dramatically different. Pretending the two are one and the same is a tremendous logical fallacy, and highly irrational thinking.

I completely understand the reason of frustration people have with the system, don't get me wrong. Would I prefer a simple easy grind for a vendor mount? Sure. But do I hate the system, think its unfair, etc? Not at all.

People wanting to know the amount of work they need to put in, that's information that will come with time, much like boss drop mounts. It could be a 5% or 1% or .05%. And just like those, you're never guaranteed to get the mounts, because its a chance to drop; yet, there are 0 complaints(or practically 0) about that system. This system(to me) is essentially the same. I farm content for a chance at a mount. Raid or quests, the actual system is relatively the same. *shrug*

[Deleted]

Right. I compare these mounts to those in the sense that they both have a long "gate" to work through in order to unlock the mounts. Then it has the added boss drop RNG tagged on.

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It's the same system as instance/raids, you just now can passively work towards them/do other content on a daily basis, rather than same instance every week.

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I completely understand the reason of frustration people have with the system, don't get me wrong. Would I prefer a simple easy grind for a vendor mount? Sure. But do I hate the system, think its unfair, etc? Not at all.

People wanting to know the amount of work they need to put in, that's information that will come with time, much like boss drop mounts. It could be a 5% or 1% or .05%. And just like those, you're never guaranteed to get the mounts, because its a chance to drop; yet, there are 0 complaints(or practically 0) about that system. This system(to me) is essentially the same. I farm content for a chance at a mount. Raid or quests, the actual system is relatively the same. *shrug*

See I wouldn't mind it if we had plenty of Legion mounts not tied to RNG or Achievements

[Renley]

See I wouldn't mind it if we had plenty of Legion mounts not tied to RNG or Achievements

That I can get on board with. They took the criticism too harshly with WoD mounts. They went from one extreme to the next.

[Jujudrood]

I would have preferred you get a currency token every 10k, then a vendor like the dude in new dal for the curious coins (destiny guy, whatshisname) shows up and has a random mount for sale for X currency tokens, then each week, he has randomly one of them available.
That RNG would be tolerable as you can get as many tokens as you need, then just hang out until the one you want pops.

But really, though, it's just a mount, purely cosmetic and serves no additional purpose outside of looking cool for like 2-3 weeks until you no longer ride it, so be glad they put them in game and not in the shop at 25-30 a pop.

[Deleted]

I would have preferred you get a currency token every 10k, then a vendor like the dude in new dal for the curious coins (destiny guy, whatshisname) shows up and has a random mount for sale for X currency tokens, then each week, he has randomly one of them available.
That RNG would be tolerable as you can get as many tokens as you need, then just hang out until the one you want pops.

But really, though, it's just a mount, purely cosmetic and serves no additional purpose outside of looking cool for like 2-3 weeks until you no longer ride it, so be glad they put them in game and not in the shop at 25-30 a pop.

I don't know I would probably prefer store to this... Just feels a missed opportunity at giving out mounts that don't require RNG just to keep people repeating the same tasks for longer. Feels lazy imho. As I say not mad just disappointed

[therealbowser]

I completely understand the reason of frustration people have with the system, don't get me wrong. Would I prefer a simple easy grind for a vendor mount? Sure. But do I hate the system, think its unfair, etc? Not at all.

People wanting to know the amount of work they need to put in, that's information that will come with time, much like boss drop mounts. It could be a 5% or 1% or .05%. And just like those, you're never guaranteed to get the mounts, because its a chance to drop; yet, there are 0 complaints(or practically 0) about that system. This system(to me) is essentially the same. I farm content for a chance at a mount. Raid or quests, the actual system is relatively the same. *shrug*

It sounds like you understand then. I can gladly accept that. I might disagree with your opinion, but I respect it, and it does make sense to me. In reality, I doubt the paragon system will be grinded out to a crazy level, and the rewards will appeal most to the people who are used to working in this way.

I just wish Blizzard would shy away from RNG mechanics; there are an awful lot this expansion. Fortunately, with the changes on 7.2... they seem to be listening. I'm hopeful.

[xanzul]

Now I originally was looking forward to the new mounts because I foolishly thought the mounts had a chance to drop from Emissary caches but would be guaranteed in the Paragon cache. Unfortunately it looks like I need to do 6-7 Emissary caches just for an unknown % drop. I can somewhat understand Blizzard using the grind = longer subs attitude but for me personally tying these mounts to RNG really doesn't encourage me in repeating the same damn WQs for another 7 months. I wouldn't mind grinding 6-7 Emissaries if I was guranteed the mount but attaching unnecessary RNG to it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth

You have nearly 25k posts here and yet somehow you managed to miss this information being posted repeatedly over the course of several weeks? I don't believe it for a second. This is just another excuse to bitch and whine.

[Queen of Hamsters]

As an avid mount colletor, I view the mounts as a chance from content that I'll be doing anyway. They'll most certainly be less "out of the way" than Garrison invasion mounts were.

[SirCowdog]

As an avid mount colletor, I view the mounts as a chance from content that I'll be doing anyway. They'll most certainly be less "out of the way" than Garrison invasion mounts were.

The question is: Would you be doing the content "anyway" if not for the chance at a mount?

[Deleted]

What a joke.
They are just manipulating us into playing as much as possible.

Way too much RNG (TF, Legendaries, professions, etc)
Timegates (you are not able to do the content at your own pace but rather are fed bits each week)
Artifact Knowledge and the fear of being left behind when you want to take a break
overtuned raids

Blizzard should have found a middleground between the lull that was WoD and the disgrace of going overboard with RNG and timegates that is Legion
But as we know, they only deal in extremes.

Manipulating YOU perhaps. Why stay subbed when you clearly hate the game so much you weird little man.

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The question is: Would you be doing the content "anyway" if not for the chance at a mount?

Yes.
Next question?

[SirCowdog]

Yes.
Next question?

Not trying to bait you into anything here, and the question wasn't really directed at you, but I'd still be interested to hear the answer:

Why would you be doing it anyway?

[Deleted]

Not trying to bait you into anything here, and the question wasn't really directed at you, but I'd still be interested to hear the answer:

Why would you be doing it anyway?

Because it has a chance to provide a legendary. TJRogue mostly likes everything Blizzard does to the game.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The question is: Would you be doing the content "anyway" if not for the chance at a mount?

... That's literally what I said in my post. Why ask a question that's already been answered?

Chance at legendaries, AP, PVP objectives, materials, Order resources... neither of which I consider to be irrelevant. All from world questing. I'm not gonna bitch about the chance for extra rewards from content that I'd be doing with or without them in place.

[Deleted]

I think it's stupid, don't quite see what was wrong with the old system of getting Exalted and being able to buy a mount. When i have unlocked flying i wont touch a WQ again but that's just me. Hope the people who enjoys this will have fun i will just skip it.

[SirCowdog]

... That's literally what I said in my post. Why ask a question that's already been answered?

Chance at legendaries, AP, PVP objectives, materials, Order resources... neither of which I consider to be irrelevant. All from world questing. I'm not gonna bitch about the chance for extra rewards from content that I'd be doing with or without them in place.

Sorry, I guess I should have asked for the details of what you'd be doing anyway. Poor wording on my part.

I suppose Blizzard did a decent job of adding a lot of reasons to repeat WQs ad-infinitum. I just wish one of those reasons was challenge. I'd really love to see a system similar to Mythic+ added as an option for WQs, with rewards that increase in the same way. Make WQs less of a mindless daily farming task, and more interesting and engaging.

[Blood Raven]

Judging by my awful luck with rng I figure I won't see any of these mounts anytime soon. Really would have been nice to have them put on the faction vendor like they did in previous expansions.

[Deleted]

Because it has a chance to provide a legendary. TJRogue mostly likes everything Blizzard does to the game.

You wouldn't have a fucking clue about what I like or not my dear.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Sorry, I guess I should have asked for the details of what you'd be doing anyway. Poor wording on my part.

I suppose Blizzard did a decent job of adding a lot of reasons to repeat WQs ad-infinitum. I just wish one of those reasons was challenge. I'd really love to see a system similar to Mythic+ added as an option for WQs, with rewards that increase in the same way. Make WQs less of a mindless daily farming task, and more interesting and engaging.

People wanting challenge have more venues than ever. Still expecting it from questing mobs in 2017 is quite hilarious. Short of tuning them with unpredictable AI and making them have boss mechanics, they'll always be tuned for solo ventures and not really a challenge for good players.

[elaina]

Would be nice to know what the drop rate actually is. You can clear an old raid (or even a new one probably?) faster than you can grind 10k rep, so I'm hoping it's not 1-2%.

Blizzard's new definition of keeping old content "relevant" is stringing along the chance of a super rare reward so that "there's always a chance" as if that will motivate us to do these well into 7.x.

Would be nice if the mounts had a small chance to drop in the regular boxes like the torn invitation, then a greater one in the paragon boxes (5-10%).