[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Joemoe]

Quick question, long story short I quit my hunter before the changes to Marks came out because I didn't enjoy the gameplay but now I want to start playing my Hunter again except I want to play BM. The problem is my Hunter has 3 legendaries two MM and the helm, is it worth it to restart with a new hunter? I know I could end up getting something like the helm and legs for my first two but is it worth the chance at the good BM legendaries? Leveling isn't a problem since I plan to just boost it up it's more about taking the time to gear up again, doing the class hall stuff and whatever else I am forgetting. I guess my main question is how important are the BM main legendaries, good enough to start over?

[Khrux]

I find it odd that Azor recommends using AotB in all situations with the leggo boots. I mean I can attest to boots reducing the benefits of killer cobra, but its not a full reset unless you have some additional source of haste going on top of your base stats. Which also doesn't play well if you have shoulders/boots because you change your stat focus to Crit > Haste and therefore are reliant on Lust/BTI procs/Foci procs to ensure more regular full resets from boots.

Also the boots even with partial resets, leads to you clipping the AotB dot which is just lost ticks. It seems like the suggestion to use AoTB with boots comes just from killer cobra not being fully utilised but I don't understand how using AotB which is also partially wasted(due to clipping) is the default choice... you also have to deal with periods of poor DB procs where you can lose alot of KCs during a BW window without killer cobra as a backup....

On the likes of Star Augur I'm using OwtP and killer cobra with mantle/boots, using DBs in place of cobras only when I don't have the focus to cobra+kc but I'm not entirely reliant on DB for resets and still do cobra/KC resets at high focus or when AotW is active. This way I always have a way to reset KC, either through regular cobra>KC from killer cobra or DB>KC through the boots.

Thoughts here?

[Inerras]

Like I said in the other AotB thread, even with the dot clipping, bestial ferocity dot still adds ≈25-30% to your TOTAL kill command damage. Including Jaws of Thunder and Hati kill command damage. In my highest heroic Trilliax parse, the dot added 33.8% to my kill command damage. And that's only in pure single target, obviously gets higher in multi-dot situations. Now add the WotC-buffed cs damage you get from all the focus and gcds freed up by not taking killer cobra, and the talent becomes hard to ignore.

Stacking crit with OwtP and shoulders means a lot of your gcds inside bw will get used up by db, which further diminishes the value of killer cobra. If you delay db for low focus resets, you potentially lose out on some bw cdr. AotB gives you that freedom to almost never delay db. I've seen up to 5 dbs out at the same time. During periods of low db procs, you're using up gcds with cs anyway while the dot's ticking, and the value of cs in relation to kill command has risen since you're going crit>mastery.

Another thing to consider, Aotb is active outside bw, unlike killer cobra. I think killer cobra just loses too much value with shoulders, boots, OwtP and crit>mastery.

[ydraw]

I find it odd that Azor recommends using AotB in all situations with the leggo boots. I mean I can attest to boots reducing the benefits of killer cobra, but its not a full reset unless you have some additional source of haste going on top of your base stats. Which also doesn't play well if you have shoulders/boots because you change your stat focus to Crit > Haste and therefore are reliant on Lust/BTI procs/Foci procs to ensure more regular full resets from boots.

Also the boots even with partial resets, leads to you clipping the AotB dot which is just lost ticks. It seems like the suggestion to use AoTB with boots comes just from killer cobra not being fully utilised but I don't understand how using AotB which is also partially wasted(due to clipping) is the default choice... you also have to deal with periods of poor DB procs where you can lose alot of KCs during a BW window without killer cobra as a backup....

Azor doesn't give a shit about the BM guide. That has been obvious all expansion.

[Deleted]

I'd use AotB with the boots if having the shoulders. The shoulders, not the boots, make us fart Dire Beasts to a point we can reliably use them as KC resets. I have the boots and no shoulders and only get procs once in a while. It does not disturb my BW window much.

The boots are still awkward during AotW though. My current KC CD is 6.26. Taking three seconds off leaves me in that awkward middle term where throwing a Cobra Shot will clip the GCD and where not using a skill makes me wait at capped focus. Outside of AotW my focus starvation makes the waiting for those seconds to elapse an okay thing since I need to pool focus anyway.

Where the boots shine is outside AotW windows, in my experience.

[Deleted]

I like the new Dire Frenzy. A new gap closer is nothing short of amazingly welcome (though Hati is once again the red headed stepchild as it does not affect him). I'm left wondering how bad it ends up being for AoE.

It has that 10% damage increase from T19 2p plus the haste that increases Bestial Cleave. I know it is not good enough to replace Stomp for AoE, that part I know, but how not good are we talking about? 50% worse AoE? 20%? 5%?

[Sabinn]

I like the new Dire Frenzy. A new gap closer is nothing short of amazingly welcome (though Hati is once again the red headed stepchild as it does not affect him). I'm left wondering how bad it ends up being for AoE.

It has that 10% damage increase from T19 2p plus the haste that increases Bestial Cleave. I know it is not good enough to replace Stomp for AoE, that part I know, but how not good are we talking about? 50% worse AoE? 20%? 5%?

It depends on how long adds last. Stomp is much better for bursting adds down, so fights like skorpyron DF is a big nono. But on fights like gul'dan , Aluriel , elisande and Even Tichondrius , DF can actually pull ahead on AOE( at least it does for me, I got too much haste going on).

[Feanoro]

Yeah, he's still butthurt that BM is better

I don't for an instant pretend to speak for him, or even particularly like the guy. If he's pissed over spec balance shifts, he's correct. We all should be, because it means yet another Blizz lie. Everyone wants their spec to be top, fine and naturally so. During alpha/beta, Blizz repeatedly said they would not mess with class balance (although no spec would be dumpster tier) due to the massive AP grinding effort they expected from us. They did not expect anyone to maintain two weapons, and assured us they understood the opportunity cost of swapping specs was no longer just clicking a button.

Did they stick to this? Did the original top specs remain so, while the others were comfortably close so that you didn't feel bad for playing the "lesser" spec? Nope. They keep meddling, changing the rules mid-event and making complete lies of everything they said about the artifact system. This of course doesn't even address the spec legendaries and "fun" of clownforging, making swaps even harder.

But yes, it's because it's BM. Right.

[Feanoro]

Whoa, don't accuse me of defending Azor! I have no trouble believing he showed his ass to anyone, but he's largely tangential to what I was driving at.

My point was only that changing specs is NOT trivial or even entirely in our hands, and that goes against every single statement Blizz gave on the subject. Being pissed about them throwing their words out the window is completely reasonable and correct.

[Khrux]

I wouldn't say "Blizzards lies" about spec hierarchy changing is really relevant to Hunters at all.

You could *only* play MM in EN/ToV, because MM was so clearly far ahead it was a complete detriment to your guild to play BM/Surv.

In NH, you can play any of our specs. Survival is technically the strongest, but swapping from ranged to melee roles isn't really an option for alot of raid comps. So the main choice for most hunters is BM or MM. Both are middle of the table, both have their strong fights and weak fights. The difference between them is minimal and your not hindering your guild by choosing one or the other.

How is any of the above relevant to "blizzards lies" about spec hierarchy? Answer, it isn't. You could only play one spec, now you can play 3. Its a positive for us.


If you want to complain about spec hierarchy, try the DK, Rogue or Mage forums. Be thankful we gained options, instead of having only 1 option and Blizzard changing it week to week.

[Azortharion]

I care so little bout the BM guide/spec that I went out of my way to put new information in it. :thinking:

I have no problems with BM, get a grip pls. If you have a problem with something the guide says, maybe bring up something I can work with. "Waaaa he bashed me like 6 months ago or something". xd

[globenstine]

the main issue with bm is if you dont have any of the leggos your up a creek. i have 7 leggos and my only dps ones for mm are the ring and boots at this point im better off staying MM as i have a 2/3 chance to not get fucked over on my next one. although that may be irrelevant. seeing as they just nerfed our only good new trait into oblivion, we may have to go bm whether we like it or not. getting the middle finger from the devs all expansion is grinding my last nerve for sure though.

[Makro]

The problem with legendaries is that who has been unlucky and received a mix of utility and bad MM specific ones is falling more and more behind people who got boots+belt+gloves and has long switched to BM loot spec. Not only they have the potential to do way better than you as MM, they can also switch spec if they need/want to.

[Khrux]

The amount of legendary drops in my guild yesterday was insane, everyone doing emmisarys or a daily heroic in their offspec and getting instant oranges.

While I'm here with Pyrdaz, Roots of Shaldrassil and Voodoo Mask(along with mantle/boots I use) keeping me from getting that "new spec, quick legendary" feel of 7.2

RIP

[Tehterokkar]

the main issue with bm is if you dont have any of the leggos your up a creek. i have 7 leggos and my only dps ones for mm are the ring and boots at this point im better off staying MM as i have a 2/3 chance to not get fucked over on my next one. although that may be irrelevant. seeing as they just nerfed our only good new trait into oblivion, we may have to go bm whether we like it or not. getting the middle finger from the devs all expansion is grinding my last nerve for sure though.

And I'm in the boat where my only "DPS legendaries" are the trinket and MM ring(which is essentially useless). Prydaz, MM Ring, Sephuz, Voodoo mask(I love you for the heal <3) and KJCunning. Voodoo mask got buffed a bit(roughly 1.8% crit) which is nice, and the trinket already did 1.7-6%(ST vs. AoE/Cleave) of my damage which was decent on top of it being a stat stick which is reliable

So..... I went BM this patch. No legendary yet since I swapped loot specialization, but hoping for shoulders. So far in the mythic NH farm raid we did, I did pretty well considering I was a few traits behind everyone else(BM was 41 before 7.2) and I'm missing 1 Jaws/PL relic of high ilvl.

[Inerras]

Well, even with boots and shoulders, looks like kill command has been buffed so much by new trait points that it's back to bestial fury/killer cobra instead of OwtP/AotB. Also looks like dire frenzy is the way to go for st, Titan's thunder interaction has been fixed. WotC still sims slightly higher than Dire stable for me. Sims now telling me agi>mastery>haste with crit way down since I'd be dropping OwtP.

I wonder if bracers>boots with this build once we get thunderslash...

[Crowfeather]

ok this may have been answered elsewhere, but does the 100% pet dmg buff from Blink Strikes stack with DF to the point that it's preferable to Bestial Fury? Especially in light of Thunderslash?

[Tehterokkar]

ok this may have been answered elsewhere, but does the 100% pet dmg buff from Blink Strikes stack with DF to the point that it's preferable to Bestial Fury? Especially in light of Thunderslash?

Blink Strikes affects Bite/Smack/etc., not auto attacks.

[Kirbypro]

Blink Strikes affects Bite/Smack/etc., not auto attacks.

Reread the spell tooltip.

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/130392-blink-strikes

[Tehterokkar]

Reread the spell tooltip.

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/130392-blink-strikes

Basic attack = Bite/Smack/Etc. Not auto attack.