Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[samao]

omfg lol...

[Deleted]

It felt OP. I could easily top everyone in the guild in MT and now in ST fights. Thank christ because I already felt tired being a turret caster, I don't know how you guys can stand the trickshot build.

[Feanoro]

It felt OP. I could easily top everyone in the guild in MT and now in ST fights. Thank christ because I already felt tired being a turret caster, I don't know how you guys can stand the trickshot build.

"Thank Christ, I can now go back to having no niche whatsoever!" =\

Try LnL instead of True Aim, that relieves the turret feeling a fair amount. Turret doesn't bother me, that's how it was back in my day, and we liked it! Damn kids!

[Chickensoup23]

Bracers+cof were simming 20k above belt+bti for me with thunderslash. Thunderslash makes dire frenzy pretty much required. Might be worth changing simcraft APL when you have shoulders and thunder slash to try to get 3 stacks of dire frenzy before each aspect of the wild, even if it means wasting a reset. 3 stacks = 124% attack speed buff = 124% thunderslash buff on primary pet. I believe aotw cd is about 40-48 seconds if you have bracers and cof. If aspect of the wild relics are actually going to become a thing, you'll probably never want to get more than 1 anyway because then it would just have a longer duration than bestial wrath (10sec+4traits+1relic) and a kc relic would pass it (haven't simmed aotw relics so they might not even be used at all idk).

Where are you getting those sims? Simcraft isn't updated for it (or is it?)

[Tehterokkar]

Where are you getting those sims? Simcraft isn't updated for it (or is it?)

I honestly have no idea why SimC "hides" the actual builds from people

This is not info that is visible unless you are told it exists by someone else(because it is hidden).

In the official Simulationcraft page, there is a Downloads section. In there, you can find a link to "Previous Versions".

"But why would I want to find previous versions when I want the latest one?" This is where SimC bamboozled everyone by having a downloads page where they upload new SimC builds EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Every day there is at least 1 build uploaded that has some small bug/performance fixes or item data fixes. These are also usually called the "unstable" builds by SimC devs. Yet they are not really unstable.

SimC devs only update the front page of their website with a build 1-3 times per patch essentially, anything after it you have to go to the downloads page and find the latest build(sort by last modified). Even now their builds have supported the PTR data for a long time in 7.1.5 builds(with PTR option enabled), and on Tuesday they immediately released a build for 7.2 specifically that contained all the patch changes.

/Rant


Enjoy. http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D (and update it every week/two weeks)

[Trictagon]

Here's a random normal gul'dan kill log with thunderslash:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

This is without bracers, using apex claw which is kinda shit. Thunderslash automatically cleaves (beast cleave doesn't need to be up). It's pretty funny that it did more than my pet's autoattacks when it procs FROM pet autoattacks. It did about 30 million damage, roughly the same as cobra shot with a 929 weapon. I don't think I even had 3 stacks of dire frenzy up for each aspect of the wild. This is possibly one of the highest dps traits in the game, but the difference between suboptimal use and optimal use could be as much as tripled from low to high end. Overlapping aspect of the wild with 3stack dire frenzy and bestial wrath is incredibly important.

[Chickensoup23]

Here's a random normal gul'dan kill log with thunderslash:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

This is without bracers, using apex claw which is kinda shit. Thunderslash automatically cleaves (beast cleave doesn't need to be up). It's pretty funny that it did more than my pet's autoattacks when it procs FROM pet autoattacks. It did about 30 million damage, roughly the same as cobra shot with a 929 weapon. I don't think I even had 3 stacks of dire frenzy up for each aspect of the wild. This is possibly one of the highest dps traits in the game, but the difference between suboptimal use and optimal use could be as much as tripled from low to high end. Overlapping aspect of the wild with 3stack dire frenzy and bestial wrath is incredibly important.

Holy crap. With shoulders & being able to stack 3 DF very often, this scares me of how good it is. So hype.

We're going to get nerfed, I promise it.

[Deleted]

well lets hope for a nerf fast.

[Tehterokkar]

Here's a random normal gul'dan kill log with thunderslash:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

This is without bracers, using apex claw which is kinda shit. Thunderslash automatically cleaves (beast cleave doesn't need to be up). It's pretty funny that it did more than my pet's autoattacks when it procs FROM pet autoattacks. It did about 30 million damage, roughly the same as cobra shot with a 929 weapon. I don't think I even had 3 stacks of dire frenzy up for each aspect of the wild. This is possibly one of the highest dps traits in the game, but the difference between suboptimal use and optimal use could be as much as tripled from low to high end. Overlapping aspect of the wild with 3stack dire frenzy and bestial wrath is incredibly important.

Automatically cleaves. Literally my reaction reading that part.



Why would they make such an overpowered trait? If you have CoF and bracers that shit will be totally broken.

[Khrux]

Its a pretty insane trait for a 1pt, its on par or stronger than some new Golden traits.

Effin's sims show Thunderslash is a 28,367 dps gain, the 4/4 slithering serpents is worth 30,768 dps and the Golden, Cobra Commander, is worth 14,680 dps.

Total BM dps from new traits - 73,815 dps

By comparison, MMs Cyclonic Burst is worth 31,416 dps and the 4/4 Unerring Arrows is worth 24842 dps post nerf. (Was 62,103 dps pre-nerf)

Total MM dps from new traits - 56,258 dps. (post nerf)
Total MM dps from new traits - 93,519 dps. (pre nerf)

So you can see why MM's UA trait got hit, albeit a bit too hard considering their 1pt is zero dps. I still think they could tone down Thunderslash, but the unreliability of Cobra Commander(10% proc) and lack of mastery scaling concerns me.

[Effinhunter]

I tried running some BM bracer sims with the Thunderslash trait, and it was still performing low in comparison to almost any other BM legendary for ST. I need to dedicate some time to running more comprehensive stuff. I'm hoping this weekend, but I have proposals due on Monday. I'll try to make as much time as I can. Won't be today though, unfortunately. Sorry.

[wam90210]

I tried running some BM bracer sims with the Thunderslash trait, and it was still performing low in comparison to almost any other BM legendary for ST. I need to dedicate some time to running more comprehensive stuff. I'm hoping this weekend, but I have proposals due on Monday. I'll try to make as much time as I can. Won't be today though, unfortunately. Sorry.

I was running some sims earlier for ST using DF, amoc, kc (st stuff) using shoulders and belt and the moment i swapped my belt for bracers, i saw about a 14k dps increase when using shoulders/bracers+cof and having Thunderslash. So I think unless they nerf Thunderslash, bracers will totally outperform belt especially since we now have focus reduction on cobra shot.

[keygy]

Its a pretty insane trait for a 1pt, its on par or stronger than some new Golden traits.

Effin's sims show Thunderslash is a 28,367 dps gain, the 4/4 slithering serpents is worth 30,768 dps and the Golden, Cobra Commander, is worth 14,680 dps.

Total BM dps from new traits - 73,815 dps

By comparison, MMs Cyclonic Burst is worth 31,416 dps and the 4/4 Unerring Arrows is worth 24842 dps post nerf. (Was 62,103 dps pre-nerf)

Total MM dps from new traits - 56,258 dps. (post nerf)
Total MM dps from new traits - 93,519 dps. (pre nerf)

So you can see why MM's UA trait got hit, albeit a bit too hard considering their 1pt is zero dps. I still think they could tone down Thunderslash, but the unreliability of Cobra Commander(10% proc) and lack of mastery scaling concerns me.

mm 4th golden trait its bugged and do not work in ST

[Naggash]

So.... Seems like BM is using now bracers instead of belt + cof trinket with DF+BF all the way for ST/AoE? And stat wise seems like mastery>crit>haste ?

Is it worth using bracers without the trinket (no luck yet..) ?

I cant' test/sim myself, since i went for old traits first.

[Effinhunter]

Here are new BM legendary sims with and without CoF. I've upped the ilvl here to 900/930 on gear/weapon. I've also added tier, since by now, everyone should pretty much have it who might be looking at this thread.

BM legendaries with tier, with stat stick and no Convergence, 41 traits through Thunder, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


BM legendaries with tier, with Convergence instead of stat stick, 41 traits through Thunder, 10k iterations, 5 minutes (Simcraft Source)


For BM with tier, adding agility is a really good thing, so the helm and legs are a lot better than you might think. Convergence obviously synergizes well with the legendary bracers, but it's still not catching roar. Also, I tried doing both OWTP and the stock DF/BF builds. If you have a better OWTP gearset (I tried to just pick and chose from M+ 900 ilvls), let me know and I'll change it. Not trying to make crit/mastery OWTP look worse than it is, and I'm sure there is a better setup out there that I'm missing.

I'll rerun the MM/SV legendaries as soon as I'm able. Finally got some breathing room today to run sims.

[sultangurde]

So.... Seems like BM is using now bracers instead of belt + cof trinket with DF+BF all the way for ST/AoE? And stat wise seems like mastery>crit>haste ?

Is it worth using bracers without the trinket (no luck yet..) ?

I cant' test/sim myself, since i went for old traits first.

Dont use Shoulders+Bracers combo without the trinket.
With full setup you can use Aspect of the Wild every 46 sec, so 7 times in 5min fight (29.46% uptime), without trinket you can use only 4.3 times (17.98% uptime).
That is what makes the difference. By the way, the combo Shoulders+Bracers+CoF+Thunderslash is insane with DF/BF setup. My single target dps went from 861k to 928k when i got bracers.

[Krokofant]

I have Bracers+COF+Thunderslash. But i do not have the Shoulders. I do have the trinket and belt though.
When i sim myself Belt+trinket+cof is better than Belt+Bracers+cof.

So do you really need the shoulders for the bracers+cof to shine then?

[Daydreaming]

Yes because shoulders allow you to have 3 charges on Dire Frenzy more consistently so you benefit from Thunderslash is much better.

To be honest this Shoulders + wrist + cof + thunderslash combo is op and allows your thudnerslash to do ~20% of your total damage. I will not be suprised if they nerf the synergy somehow.

[satimy]

Marks just got nerfed again

[Dracodraco]

Marks just got nerfed again

...Uh, looks like a semi-fix to the golden + making it able to crit is actually a "buff", not a "nerf". Sure, the fix should have been there from the start, but we knew going in that it'd never crit - that just essentially boosted the value of it by 30-40% or so.