The Real Problem with the Broken Shore (from a major Legion fan)

[Grimnakh]

So the ilvl scaling thing I didnt even notice until pointed out, I can pull 30 mobs and be just fine (ofc Im in Guardian Druid spec for world content so unsure how it plays for other specs), and the speed of finishing world content is mostly limited still by terrian and how plentiful/respawn happy the mobs are. Not a fan of the ilvl scaling in theory or being used more in the future unless its tied to proportionate increased rewards (gold multiplier, other drop multiplier ect)

That aside, and how rediculous I think the forums, and everyone is being about it, the real problem with the Broken Shore and a big missed opportunity is that the zone is too easy at ANY ilvl. Tanaan wasnt amazing but it had heaps more playability than this will ever have at any stage of its release because it was actually a dangerous place for most players until they later got geared up. It also just had more packed into it, this zone feela pretty sparse by comparison, though I dont know all of whats coming. Regardless of what they add if the difficulty is where it is now its not going to be all that meaningful as content when it could have been.

Does that mean I hate 7.2 or think its an empty patch? No, there are lots of other things in the patch Im thrilled with. (Maybe most of all you can actually see player's real ilvl in lfg now lol)

Still love the expansion, but ya, while it'll be another WQ zone that we honestly didnt need (we have 5 already) its a big waste of what they could have done.

[TheFirstOnes]

So the ilvl scaling thing I didnt even notice until pointed out, I can pull 30 mobs and be just fine (ofc Im in Guardian Druid spec for world content so unsure how it plays for other specs), and thr speed of finishing world content is mostly limited still by terrian and how plentiful/respawn happy the mobs are. Not a fan of the ilvl scaling in theory or being used more in the future unless its tied to proportionate increased rewards (gold multiplier, other drop multiplier ect)

That aside, and how rediculous I think the forums, and everyone is being about it, the real problem with the Broken Shore and a big missed opportunity is that the zone is too easy at any ilvl. Tanaan wasnt amazing but it had heaps more playability than this will ever have at any stage of its release because it was actually a dangerous place for mlst players until they later got geared up. It also just had more packed into it, this zone feela pretty sparse by comparison, though I dont know all of whats coming. Regardless of what they add if the difficulty is where it is now its not going to be all that meaningful as content when it could have been.

Does that mean I hate 7.2 or think its an empty patch? No, there are lots of other things in the patch Im thrilled with. (Maybe most of all you can actually see player's real ilvl in lfg now lol)

Still love the expansion, but ya, while it'll be another WQ zone that we honestly didnt need (we have 5 already) its a big waste of what they could have done.

Blizz Haters: THIS GAME SUX! I have to wait for shit, Scaling tech sux, MAH PROGRESSION FOR GEAR! NUU! Mobs hit too hard, AND TEH QUESTLINE IS A TIMEH GATEH....

Me: Well, honestly, I'm loving it tbh. The mobs make the place seem dangerous, The questline SHOULD take a while so Burnout won't exist, and the gear BS still works in raids. Idc about rep much, I just love Farming Nethershards, and doing content all the way up to KJ! It's fun!

Blizz: *Hotfixes the shit outta the Broken isles, Nerfing it to shit and taking away scaling*

Me: ....Fucking Casuals.

Blizz Haters: OH MAH GERD! THEY HOTFIXED EVRYTING! It'z Almust Lik tey Gut Caught for dere Shady Shitz....

Me: C...Can we please NOT kill Kil'jaeden when the TOS raid pops? I mean, I really want to join him at this point. I can't take this anymore....


Honestly, these hotfixes ruined the fun for the Broken Shore for me, mainly due to all the complainers smashing wow cause of the mobs "HITTING A BIT TOO HARD"! -_-

Sad thing is, some of these guys "Claimed" to have played Vanilla. Well, if they did play vanilla, then they wouldnt've asked to remove scaling, as well as hard af mobs from the game....

Sucks that I can't have fun in this game anymore without my adventures getting nerfed to the ground by people wanting to burn themselves out...

- - - Updated - - -

And it gets worse when the exact same people complain about their content running "Low" and so forth, mainly due to the questlines completing in only a week....

Now, this'll take 2 fucking months, with a raid that'll take over 2-4 months to complete, and people complain about Time-gates, and resource wasting? Jesus...

[Grimnakh]

Blizz Haters: THIS GAME SUX! I have to wait for shit, Scaling tech sux, MAH PROGRESSION FOR GEAR! NUU! Mobs hit too hard, AND TEH QUESTLINE IS A TIMEH GATEH....

Me: Well, honestly, I'm loving it tbh. The mobs make the place seem dangerous, The questline SHOULD take a while so Burnout won't exist, and the gear BS still works in raids. Idc about rep much, I just love Farming Nethershards, and doing content all the way up to KJ! It's fun!

Blizz: *Hotfixes the shit outta the Broken isles, Nerfing it to shit and taking away scaling*

Me: ....Fucking Casuals.

Blizz Haters: OH MAH GERD! THEY HOTFIXED EVRYTING! It'z Almust Lik tey Gut Caught for dere Shady Shitz....

Me: C...Can we please NOT kill Kil'jaeden when the TOS raid pops? I mean, I really want to join him at this point. I can't take this anymore....


Honestly, these hotfixes ruined the fun for the Broken Shore for me, mainly due to all the complainers smashing wow cause of the mobs "HITTING A BIT TOO HARD"! -_-

Sad thing is, some of these guys "Claimed" to have played Vanilla. Well, if they did play vanilla, then they wouldnt've asked to remove scaling, as well as hard af mobs from the game....

Sucks that I can't have fun in this game anymore without my adventures getting nerfed to the ground by people wanting to burn themselves out...

- - - Updated - - -

And it gets worse when the exact same people complain about their content running "Low" and so forth, mainly due to the questlines completing in only a week....

Now, this'll take 2 fucking months, with a raid that'll take over 2-4 months to complete, and people complain about Time-gates, and resource wasting? Jesus...

Its the Netflix generation(dont get me wrong, love Netflix), they want to binge and unsub (and then complain theres no content).

[Ehrenpanzer]

I was fine with the new mobs scaling... or at least being tuned to people having LFR NH gear. The rest of BI mobs suddenly scaling was silly and seems counter-productive to having a gear-treadmill game.

The zone also "feels sparse" because it is literally TWO DAYS into the patch. Half the shit to do hasn't even been unlocked yet.

[Super Kami Dende]

I think the difference between this and Tanaan is, Tanaan was End Expansion content. This is mid Expansion content, so more in line with Isle of Giants/Thunder. Thus Smaller in scale.

Next difference is Invasions will also affect the whole of the mainland Broken Isles as well as just the Shore. so we still have 2 areas technically for this patch.

Last difference is, It also added in a new Dungeons, Questlines and Scenarios that take us away from Broken Shores, Tanaan was self contained.

[Deleted]

I was surprised with how few mobs there are around. If they die that easy (even with scaling at full effect) there should be tons more. Now however you can run up to the boss of a WQ area with maybe one patrol even remotely able to aggro you and for the rest small one / two mob packs on the sides. The average enemy area in any of the 7.0 zones has easily double the mob density.

Sure, opening a portal under the ship spawns a metric ton of mobs, but the base amount patrolling around should be much much higher. For the demon staging area this is laughable.

[Jerot]

Its the Netflix generation(dont get me wrong, love Netflix), they want to binge and unsub (and then complain theres no content).

Theres nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make progress just logging in every day/other day and playing for an hour or so. Its fine the system is built in a way that allows that kind of player behavior, I just wish it wasn't forced on everyone. Whats wrong with wanting content you paid for on demand?

The only argument I've heard is that people who spend more time on the game get further faster, I mean really? This is a huge problem? I can understand in competitive environments like PvP, and high end mythic content for worldfirsts (Like they aren't going to nolife it anyways, ha). But everything in WoW has become time gated to keep you coming back.

People are going to burn out on the game regardless, especially one so old. Making logging in every day/other day to keep up makes it even less fun, you can't play on your own schedule.

It feels like a content problem when in reality its how its being delivered and presented, spoon fed, hand holding. They could get so much more player engagement if it wasn't a huge hassle to make an alt. Class specific content, new roles and rotations, stuff to keep the game fresh. And there are people who roll alts and continue on. But for the vast majority of players they stick to a main. Unsub when they get bored of it, or a class change happens they don't like, and come back later. It feels like there isn't much content, because you are forced to replay so much of it if you want to experience something new. Because your direct path to progression is stuck behind a daily or weekly reset.

They could dump the whole questlines into the game at once, still hold back the raid so people aren't forced to rush through it to make the roster. But let people experience it at their own pace. And people would be more likely to play it again to see the other factions view of it, or another class halls perspective, if it didn't feel like throwing away years of progress to do so.

All the player retention strategies are strangling the game. They are going about the problem totally backwards, gaining and losing players before/after content releases is normal. So long as they stay committed to the core game experience, they will have an audience that keeps coming back.

[Super Kami Dende]

Or most people don't like the change. Has nothing to some bullshit "insert generation bashing" phrase. Somehow getting more powerful then mobs was fine for 12 years. Maybe blizzard should fix the game and put actual hard content in instead of this trash.

That isn't true though, since in mid and end content patches the Creatures in said designated Areas were much stronger than the Creatures in the launch end game areas. Isle of QD creatures were twice the strength as Netherstorm, Argent Tourney Mobs were stronger than base Icecrown creatures, Guardians of Hyjal Area had stronger creatures etc.

Now that we use the ENTIRE of the expansions Zones still at max level, the Scaling was meant to simulate the same type of power creep that only expansion single endgame zones were meant to. They just tuned it out of whack.

[Jerot]

That isn't true though, since in mid and end content patches the Creatures in said designated Areas were much stronger than the Creatures in the launch end game areas. Isle of QD creatures were twice the strength as Netherstorm, Argent Tourney Mobs were stronger than base Icecrown creatures, Guardians of Hyjal Area had stronger creatures etc.

Now that we use the ENTIRE of the expansions Zones still at max level, the Scaling was meant to simulate the same type of power creep that only expansion single endgame zones were meant to. They just tuned it out of whack.

Its to solve the problem caused by their heavy handedness in item level tuning, numbers are growing out of control faster than they did pre-stat squish. And it is only going to get worse since they decided to bump the levels on ToS gear. The basic expansion content wasn't designed around those kind of player power levels, and its having negative repercussions. Patch content scaling was always a thing, it would feel wierd facing something that is supposed to be a new threat, and stomping it with last patches gear, QD, TI, TJ. No one should have a problem with that.

What rubs people the wrong way is they are nerfing the relative power they feel like they've earned over the course of the expansion so far. It wouldn't have been a problem if they properly modeled item tiers and stuck to a plan, they've had years of experience doing so in previous expansions. Because when you give people "optional" power upgrades they feel mandatory in a game all about increasing your power, be it legendaries, or titanforged loot. Not to mention it compounded problems with secondary stat scaling and grinding RNG for drops.

[kamuimac]

So the ilvl scaling thing I didnt even notice until pointed out, I can pull 30 mobs and be just fine (ofc Im in Guardian Druid spec for world content so unsure how it plays for other specs), and the speed of finishing world content is mostly limited still by terrian and how plentiful/respawn happy the mobs are. Not a fan of the ilvl scaling in theory or being used more in the future unless its tied to proportionate increased rewards (gold multiplier, other drop multiplier ect)

That aside, and how rediculous I think the forums, and everyone is being about it, the real problem with the Broken Shore and a big missed opportunity is that the zone is too easy at ANY ilvl. Tanaan wasnt amazing but it had heaps more playability than this will ever have at any stage of its release because it was actually a dangerous place for most players until they later got geared up. It also just had more packed into it, this zone feela pretty sparse by comparison, though I dont know all of whats coming. Regardless of what they add if the difficulty is where it is now its not going to be all that meaningful as content when it could have been.

Does that mean I hate 7.2 or think its an empty patch? No, there are lots of other things in the patch Im thrilled with. (Maybe most of all you can actually see player's real ilvl in lfg now lol)

Still love the expansion, but ya, while it'll be another WQ zone that we honestly didnt need (we have 5 already) its a big waste of what they could have done.

no be a good boy and pull 30 mobs in your balance/feral spec and come tell us how amazing scalling is .

and i bet , i f... bet your druid is not 870 only 900+

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I agree with OP and King Jason that the game needs more challenge, not less. I'll try not to sink into the hyperbole pervading these forums, but I do find it frustrating when the same players asking for better world quest rewards turn around and complain about the mobs being tuned up a tad. I say "a tad" because neither I nor my 100+ guild mates even noticed till I saw the storm in the B-net forums and mentioned it in guild. We all had a good laugh about it. What? Quest mobs are too hard? Seriously? Too bad the people threatening to un-sub rarely really do it, imho. First of all I believe it's healthy for people to take breaks from addictive video games and secondly I would enjoy the reduced hysteria. But we all know those same players will be here threatening to un-sub over some other perceived crisis again next month.

[Marrilaife]

Theres nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make progress just logging in every day/other day and playing for an hour or so. Its fine the system is built in a way that allows that kind of player behavior, I just wish it wasn't forced on everyone. Whats wrong with wanting content you paid for on demand?

The only argument I've heard is that people who spend more time on the game get further faster, I mean really? This is a huge problem? I can understand in competitive environments like PvP, and high end mythic content for worldfirsts (Like they aren't going to nolife it anyways, ha). But everything in WoW has become time gated to keep you coming back.

As much as I'm critical about some of the Blizzard's decisions, I don't really get the QQ about Broken Shore island literally 1 day after it opened.

You want everything unlocked, you can come 2 months later and have everything open. Except TOS LFR. That's gonna take time...

People have tons of stuff to do on day 1, on top of many things being still bugged so I'd rather wait until they fix things before rushing through tons of content.

Most important things like invasions for flying and new champion / new order hall research are only gated by a couple of weeks. Class mount is the longest, which I don't fully understand, but the most important things otherwise aren't that badly gated for people to start immediately complaining it's gonna take ages.

But for the vast majority of players they stick to a main.

I know a very small minority of players who would not play some form of alt. The approach to "alting" varies, some have a lot of low-developed chars, some have 1 beloved alt, some have 1-3 extra chars they concentrate on and try to keep as close in development to their main, but people who refuse to roll any secondary char, even out of curiosity, are a handful.

The fact you need to do the broken shore unlock + new knowledge + new artifact trait unlock per every spec on every alt already gives people plenty to do in week 1.

And the fact there are class campaigns, class mounts and achievement to finish campaign with every class means there is content to be seen from various class perspective, and if anything, this expansion should be more alt friendly rather than "stick to your main". This isn't final fantasy where you can experience all content on 1 char.

The game shouldn't require you to play 20h/week on 1 char and 60h/week if you have 3 chars. It's unhealthy and stupid. And if people really want to sink hours into, they will find themselves something to do. I've already see people selling tons of the new nethershard item for crafted legendaries, and even crafted legendaries themselves, on day 1. That sounds like a lot of farming to me... I really didn't expect to see this stuff from day 1.

There's also the new dungeon and few other things to do. Like the pet battle event in wailing caverns. Or the paragon reps.

And no, I don't care to have Broken Isle brutal to a freshly dinged char. I remember Tanaan and Timeless Isle, and it was always the same story, a char geared even casually from previous patches was fine (like TOT LFR gear in TI or ~640 when entering Tanaan), but freshly dinged char it was like omg, everything takes ages to kill, and these were the chars that actually had to do the farm, not the top decked mains who already had everything. I don't want every mob to be a slog when I have to kill hundreds or thousands of them.

[Osmeric]

I am not getting much "I want to play this" feel from the new zone. Nor am I getting much "I have to play this for rewards" feel.

[Deleted]

Isn't it actually more like content is actually coming?

It does feel tuned down for now... but i guess once the buildings stand we will get more content and the isle itself will live up.

[Deleted]

The real REAL problem with broken shore is that it has loads of hills, impassable areas and indoor areas.

It's basically blizzard's way of saying "just play a dh already, nerd cake" as high places or indoor areas are a non issue for them.

[Flarelaine]

I don't like when Blizzard folds so quickly and completely to whining. Yeah, mobs got a little tougher and I actually had to start watching my health while out in the world, THE HORROR! So what?

[Deleted]

I don't like when Blizzard folds so quickly and completely to whining. Yeah, mobs got a little tougher and I actually had to start watching my health while out in the world, THE HORROR! So what?

Agreed, I enjoyed actually having to use several of my ability, instead of running around one-shotting everything. Alas thanks to time gate, I am reminded that there is several of fun things to do in WoW and that i have alt I can spend time enjoying.

[Todesbote]

Remember Isle of Thunder where you unlocked parts of the island each week and got access to new daily quest hubs and rares / world boss to keep the place interesting? Also about 20 achievements and lots of treasures and systems with the rares (Troves of the Thunderking Scenario). Remember Firelands Daily Quest hub before that? Where it felt like you invaded the firelands and built a new base from the ground up? You could even witness your progression each day as the tree you planted would grow over time and you would gain access to more parts of the firelands and more quests. It felt like progression.

That's honestly what I'm missing from Broken Shore. The whole "build your foothold against the legion" thing turned out to be: decide between three building options that take weeks to build and will be up for a couple of days before it gets DESTROYED and you can rebuild it again. Wow. Where is the sense of meaningful progression there? I want to build something, I want to watch my foothold grow. I wanna be able to unlock something and progress the story of the place. There is a story right? I really thought Tanaan would be as bad as it was because it was rushed and that with Legion we could return the quality to Firelands / Isle of Thunder levels. Guess not.

[Flarelaine]

Remember Isle of Thunder where you unlocked parts of the island each week and got access to new daily quest hubs and rares / world boss to keep the place interesting? Also about 20 achievements and lots of treasures and systems with the rares (Troves of the Thunderking Scenario). Remember Firelands Daily Quest hub before that? Where it felt like you invaded the firelands and built a new base from the ground up? You could even witness your progression each day as the tree you planted would grow over time and you would gain access to more parts of the firelands and more quests. It felt like progression.

That's honestly what I'm missing from Broken Shore. The whole "build your foothold against the legion" thing turned out to be: decide between three building options that take weeks to build and will be up for a couple of days before it gets DESTROYED and you can rebuild it again. Wow. Where is the sense of meaningful progression there? I want to build something, I want to watch my foothold grow. I wanna be able to unlock something and progress the story of the place. There is a story right? I really thought Tanaan would be as bad as it was because it was rushed and that with Legion we could return the quality to Firelands / Isle of Thunder levels. Guess not.

I'd also add the Isle of Quel'Danas to that list.

[Deleted]

Dont confuse difficulty with time wasting.

Making mobs "harder" in WoW consists of them tinkering with numbers. The end result is the player spending a few more seconds on each mob, which accumulates to several more minutes a day, doing largely the same quests they have been doing the past 6 months. Whether you are collecting eggs in Broken Shore and killing crocs or doing something similar in the other zones is beside the point.


This is the issue with adopting Diablo 3, in that game and most other ARPGs, if you increase difficulty, the game will reward you with higher chance of loot. WoW does not have this feature. Players would not mind if they could crank the difficulty up, so that quests reward 890 gear minimum, yet each mob has 10-15 million health and can solo you if you arent careful.


The context of this game as of right now is that players have been dealing with extreme form of RNG and they have been grinding quests for half a year. Broken Shores is just more of the same. Making a zone look more black and green color wise, will not reinvigorate players to keep running on the hamster wheel.