Dragon aspects vs demon lords

[Wildmoon]

Well, he actually have "I win" button. City scale at least.

City scale is not that unbelieveable. I am perfectly aware of that. A bunch of orc shamans could coorperate to unleash the full elemental might to destroy the ogre capital city. Archimonde could do it all by himself. That's reasonable.

[Irian]

Mannoroth and Tichondrius very would be beaten in a 2v2 with Alexstrasza and Nozdormu. They may have been weakened but they're still incredibly powerful and have some remnant of their previous strength. Even if they had absolutely none of their Aspect powers, they are still massive magical flying reptiles. Consider the fact that Brutallus nearly lost to a normal dragon.

That being said, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden...? Not even a chance. Even putting them in the equation means that there's zero hope. Archimonde merrily stomped through the combined efforts of the Alliance, Horde and night elves and was only ever challenged by thousands of souls' worth of wisps. Kil'jaeden is said to be as strong if not stronger than that. If they were all alive and had their full aspect powers, the chances might be larger than nothing but likely still pretty hopeless.

[Deleted]

There's a good reason we don't use the aspect's power agaist the Legion... there isn't any left.

At this stage they are all just mere mortal dragons, with Kalec being the only one actually doing anything and even he seems to be at order-champion level.

Ysera on the other hand was pretty much one shot by Xavius and then slain by us.

[Explorer]

Well, last time I checked, Archimonde was able to rather effortlessly life wiping a planet and rip it apart - this was mentioned more than once, both in the short stories and in-game. Kil'Jaeden should presumably be as powerful as Archimonde. On the other hand, none of the Aspect has shown capability to do the same (or be more durable than a planet) - except Cata Deathwing, but that's only if you still count the corrupted & empowered Deathwing as an Aspect. So no, assuming no PiS & no plot device (i.e: fighting on Azeroth and not allowed to destroy it), pre corruption Aspects aren't going to win unless you are turning a blind eye to canon.

still, Archimonde blowing up a planet is a complete, absolute nonsense. Because in that case he is a literal idiot who is too owerwhelmingly stupid not to use that spell against 23 dudes who have beaten him to death instead.
Or do you still dwelling on a single phrase in dungeon journal about casting Rain of Chaos to destroy Draenor? Sorry to disappoint, that's just a loud metaphoric phrase, it only summons several infernals in a number of exploions, probably as potent as a bombing from B-1 "Lancer" plane, but that's faaaaaar away from blowing a planet.
You just need to approximately compare the pure amounts of energy at worlk, in kJ. All his spells need to be lile 10000 times stronger than they actually were. Or it would have a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge casting time and drain mana several times x his capacity. Which makes it useless in direct combat.
Dalaran is biggest thing he actually did and must be considered as such.
Or he is idiot and dies while he could win in one handwave.

[Eazy]

Deathwing full power vs Kil'jaeden/Archimonde.

That would be interesting fight actually.

[Explorer]

Mannoroth and Tichondrius very would be beaten in a 2v2 with Alexstrasza and Nozdormu. They may have been weakened but they're still incredibly powerful and have some remnant of their previous strength. Even if they had absolutely none of their Aspect powers, they are still massive magical flying reptiles. Consider the fact that Brutallus nearly lost to a normal dragon.

That being said, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden...? Not even a chance. Even putting them in the equation means that there's zero hope. Archimonde merrily stomped through the combined efforts of the Alliance, Horde and night elves and was only ever challenged by thousands of souls' worth of wisps. Kil'jaeden is said to be as strong if not stronger than that. If they were all alive and had their full aspect powers, the chances might be larger than nothing but likely still pretty hopeless.

Yet still he will be bent and killed by 20 players, Illidan and Velen.

[Qualia]

Or do you still dwelling on a single phrase in dungeon journal about casting Rain of Chaos to destroy Draenor? Sorry to disappoint, that's just a loud metaphoric phrase, it only summons several infernals in a number of exploions, probably as potent as a bombing from B-1 "Lancer" plane, but that's faaaaaar away from blowing a planet.
<...>
Or he is idiot and dies while he could win in one handwave.

No, I was referring to the Velen short story:

--"This last being leveled the rock sculptures around him, clearing a space where he could kneel in the dust made from his destruction and draw symbols of dread power with his clawed finger. When he finished, there was a moment of perfect quiet as the slaughter halted and the entire world waited in horrified stillness. And then, an explosion. The unleashed energies ripped the world's surface apart, and Anduin found himself crying out and throwing his arms up in terror, but the magics moved right through him without harm. The Legion marched back into the portal, returning to the dark nexus of the demons' dwelling, and in their wake was left... nothing. Nothing alive, at any rate"
(Velen Short Story - A Prophet's Lesson)

While it didn't name this "last being", seeing that it was an Eredar, I assume it should be either Archimonde or KJ as both of them are considered most powerful among the Man'ari. That, plus the in-game tooltip of "Archimonde Hatred Reborn": "Archimonde the Defiler, overlord of the legion army and wielder of limitless magics, has destroyed countless worlds across the infinity of the universes". I actually didn't count RoC because it (as it was in WoD) didn't destroy Draenor, after all. However, yes, I do agree that he is idiot - even if you were being sarcastic. That's called Plot-Induced Stupidity as we wouldn't win if they were smart, after all. I mean, Archimonde's Finger of Death was perfectly capable of killing us instantly in Hyjal, why didn't he just use it on us and get it done from the start? Arthas knew full well Ashbringer will clash terribly with Frostmourne, why did he stand defenselessly in front of it? Deathwing could activate the Cataclysm from the Maelstrom, why didn't he just do that instead of picking a fight with us personally? Because if they weren't stupid / arrogant and went at us seriously in a no-hold-barred battle instead, there wouldn't be a story to tell.

Lastly, life-wiping spell is rare, but not really unheard of in WoW. We already have a Titan device created by the Keepers that can wipe out all life, break Azeroth into elementary matters and reform it upon activation. Cata Deathwing was almost capable of at least wiping out all life (not breaking Azeroth since it was pretty intact in End Times, just charred) if we didn't interrupt him. The capacity isn't an issue. Casting time might be, but then, from that vision, it couldn't have been long unless Anduin was sitting there watching the unnamed Eredar drawing symbols for hour or something.

Saying "he was / is going to be killed by XX players" doesn't really mean anything. Not only that the size of the raid is different in lore - going from a group of adventurers to an army, but also that the plot guarantee our victory one way or another. If we are talking about in-game mechanic, even Sargeras (and the Void Lords / Void Titan(s) in the future) will be killed by 20 players with helps of some NPCs anyway.

[Explorer]

No, I was referring to the Velen short story:

--"This last being leveled the rock sculptures around him, clearing a space where he could kneel in the dust made from his destruction and draw symbols of dread power with his clawed finger. When he finished, there was a moment of perfect quiet as the slaughter halted and the entire world waited in horrified stillness. And then, an explosion. The unleashed energies ripped the world's surface apart, and Anduin found himself crying out and throwing his arms up in terror, but the magics moved right through him without harm. The Legion marched back into the portal, returning to the dark nexus of the demons' dwelling, and in their wake was left... nothing. Nothing alive, at any rate"
(Velen Short Story - A Prophet's Lesson)

While it didn't name this "last being", seeing that it was an Eredar, I assume it should be either Archimonde or KJ as both of them are considered most powerful among the Man'ari. That, plus the in-game tooltip of "Archimonde Hatred Reborn": "Archimonde the Defiler, overlord of the legion army and wielder of limitless magics, has destroyed countless worlds across the infinity of the universes". I actually didn't count RoC because it (as it was in WoD) didn't destroy Draenor, after all. However, yes, I do agree that he is idiot - even if you were being sarcastic. That's called Plot-Induced Stupidity as we wouldn't win if they were smart, after all. I mean, Archimonde's Finger of Death was perfectly capable of killing us instantly in Hyjal, yet he never bothered to use them until we get our Elune's Protection. Why didn't he just use it on us and get it done from the start? Because if he wasn't stupid / arrogant, there wouldn't be a story to tell.

Lastly, life-wiping spell is rare, but not really unheard of in WoW. We already have a Titan device created by the Keepers that can wipe out all life, and break Azeroth into elementary matters + reform it upon activation. Cata Deathwing was almost capable of at least wiping out all life (not breaking Azeroth since it was pretty intact in End Times, just charred) if we didn't interrupt him. The capacity isn't an issue. Casting time might be, but then, from that vision, it couldn't have been long unless Anduin was sitting there watching the unnamed Eredar drawing symbols for hour or something.

So that's what I see as contradictions that can't be explained other way. If we try to rationalize this, they could say, e.g., that he had to channel several thousands of souls as source of energy, channel the ritual for an hour and then a bang comes - it's okay, would be rational, because in any battles he was defeated he didn't have thousand souls and hour of casting time.
I also was really disappointed that they didn't implement Finger of Death mechanic in the fight, so I made it up myself - it deals 150% max health in damage. But powerful shields like from Khadgar or Yrel can reduce it by half so it can be healed through.

[Irian]

Yet still he will be bent and killed by 20 players, Illidan and Velen.

Yeah but that's just crappy MMO mechanics honestly.

And...well, to be fair, Illidan and Velen aren't exactly the weakest characters in the game. Both are some of the most powerful figures on Azeroth, and the 20 players lorewise are basically the elite of the elite (ignore that LFR will zerg him down, that doesn't count shhh). Game mechanics demand he be beatable, but in lore he is downright terrifying and from what I can see without a match that isn't Archimonde or Sargeras.

[Explorer]

Yeah but that's just crappy MMO mechanics honestly.

And...well, to be fair, Illidan and Velen aren't exactly the weakest characters in the game. Both are some of the most powerful figures on Azeroth, and the 20 players lorewise are basically the elite of the elite (ignore that LFR will zerg him down, that doesn't count shhh). Game mechanics demand he be beatable, but in lore he is downright terrifying and from what I can see without a match that isn't Archimonde or Sargeras.

Still, even now we couldn't have approached Cata-time Deathwing without being incinerated within a blink of an eye.

[xso111]

and here i am reminiscing the good ol tbc days laughing my ass off at Kil'Jaeden's struggle in killing me and Kalecgos(who's not even an aspect yet)




guys, for fucks sake malorne was even able to hold his ground against Archimonde in WotA...... Empowered Aspects takes this.....Depowered wouldn't be able to...... Mannoroth, and Tichondrius are a literal F-O-D-D-E-R, any single aspect would shit stomp these 2 at once...... its basically Aspects vs Eredar Lords

[Qualia]

guys, for fucks sake malorne was even able to hold his ground against Archimonde in WotA......

Tried to hold his ground, you meant. Last time I checked, holding your ground means being able to withstand an attack without retreating, not getting one's neck snapped in a few minutes :P

[darkoms]

Why do some here think that I meant Aspects without strength? Is it really so difficult to understand that of course I mean the Aspects at their full capacity, to the loss of power?
Alexstrasza-Kil'Jeden
Ysera-Archimonde
Nozdormu-Mannoroth
Malygos-Tikondrius
It's 4x4 battle

[xso111]

Why do some here think that I meant Aspects without strength? Is it really so difficult to understand that of course I mean the Aspects at their full capacity, to the loss of power?
Alexstrasza-Kil'Jeden
Ysera-Archimonde
Nozdormu-Mannoroth
Malygos-Tikondrius
It's 4x4 battle

its 4 vs 2...... Mannoroth and tikondrinus would probably even die from mere colaterall damage when those 6 fight...... really, its so poor to even include those 2...... they're basically just dead weights.....

- - - Updated - - -

Tried to hold his ground, you meant. Last time I checked, holding your ground means being able to withstand an attack without retreating, not getting one's neck snapped in a few minutes :P

i'm pretty sure malorne pushed back Archimonde for a while..... they're even toppling mountain as they're wrestling each other IIRC.

[Farrarie]

LOL KJ would kill all of them alone with ease he destroyed an orc army with a single spell
his mere minion brutalos destroyed a high ranked blue dragon and he is nothing compared to a demon lord
archimonde destroyed dalaran with sand
so KJ with archimonde only these 2 can destroy the aspects and their armies of dragons

- - - Updated - - -

and Kalec and heroes of azeroth hardly managed to return KJ to twisting nether
a full power demon lord would destroy all dragons

- - - Updated - - -

and don't forget that 5 players managed to defeat mozdormo the evil nozdormu

[TheFirstOnes]

its 4 vs 2...... Mannoroth and tikondrinus would probably even die from mere colaterall damage when those 6 fight...... really, its so poor to even include those 2...... they're basically just dead weights.....

- - - Updated - - -



i'm pretty sure malorne pushed back Archimonde for a while..... they're even toppling mountain as they're wrestling each other IIRC.

*Cracks Neck*

I think Archimonde was holding back in that battle. He didn't know how powerful Malorne was, and when Malorne went full power on Archimonde, Archimonde then pushed a Bit of his power in, grabbed the Demi-God by the neck, and killed him. Remember, Malorne isn't weak either, he's fucking Strong. You'd have to be strong af to Fuck Elune's Pussy, and create the Master Of Malfurion himself....

[Friendlyimmolation]

*Cracks Neck*

I think Archimonde was holding back in that battle. He didn't know how powerful Malorne was, and when Malorne went full power on Archimonde, Archimonde then pushed a Bit of his power in, grabbed the Demi-God by the neck, and killed him. Remember, Malorne isn't weak either, he's fucking Strong. You'd have to be strong af to Fuck Elune's Pussy, and create the Master Of Malfurion himself....

Cenarious not malf

[TheFirstOnes]

Cenarious not malf

"Master Of Malfurion"

....

I never said Malfurion himself....

I said the MASTER OF MALFURION! MASTER! -_- I was clearly talking About Cenarius....

[Friendlyimmolation]

"Master Of Malfurion"

....

I never said Malfurion himself....

I said the MASTER OF MALFURION! MASTER! -_- I was clearly talking About Cenarius....

I thought you were trying to say "the master that is malf"

[TheFirstOnes]

I thought you were trying to say "the master that is malf"

...Nahhhhhhhhhhhh.....