Unerring Arrows nerfed from 10% to 4%

[Deleted]

Well i expected that
New traits was unrealisticly OP compared to BM and try to farm 80mln AP because you have to swap to MM

[Emerald Archer]

Well i expected that
New traits was unrealisticly OP compared to BM and try to farm 80mln AP because you have to swap to MM

Uhh tbf, BM had insane traits already, whereas MM did not at all.

[satimy]

Well i expected that
New traits was unrealisticly OP compared to BM and try to farm 80mln AP because you have to swap to MM

Our 3rd trait is 50% dodge on a 3 minute cd, thats about as powerful as your extra chromosome

[Deleted]

Our 3rd trait is 50% dodge on a 3 minute cd, thats about as powerful as your extra chromosome

Don't forget immunity to snares 12 seconds every 3 minutes.

[Emerald Archer]

Our 3rd trait is 50% dodge on a 3 minute cd, thats about as powerful as your extra chromosome

Just as an example, because this is similar to the current situation.

Spec 1: First traits give an 4% dmg increase, Second give a 0% dmg increase, Third give a 5% dmg increase.
Spec 2: First traits give a 3% dmg increase, Second gives a 2% dmg increase, Third gives a 4% dmg increase.

They are literally both the SAME, who cares if the 2nd gives no dmg increase. Seriously. Move on from the whole "2nd trait is no extra dmg we r so behind" thing.

[Deleted]

Just as an example, because this is similar to the current situation.

Spec 1: First traits give an 4% dmg increase, Second give a 0% dmg increase, Third give a 5% dmg increase.
Spec 2: First traits give a 3% dmg increase, Second gives a 2% dmg increase, Third gives a 4% dmg increase.

They are literally both the SAME, who cares if the 2nd gives no dmg increase. Seriously. Move on from the whole "2nd trait is no extra dmg we r so behind" thing.

As it stands right now. BM First Trait gives more dps and second trait gives more dps. The golden trait must be really shit for BM then.

[Emerald Archer]

As it stands right now. BM First Trait gives more dps and second trait gives more dps. The golden trait must be really shit for BM then.

BMs first trait is so minorly minorly better than ours, and our golden is very good, that's all I know for sure, but other people don't have the numbers either, so why cry till you do.

[slickwilly]

You'll be ok, Middle isn't a bad place to be. Remember there is always someone with a bigger dick. Your little peepee is still ok.

[satimy]

Is getting cucked by Ion a new fetish?

[Feanoro]

Is getting cucked by Ion a new fetish?

Certainly seems to be what the "It's fine, guys, only non-hunters are allowed to have op things" crowd is pushing.

[Emerald Archer]

There is more than 2 stances on this guys, despite what you think, it isn't just

"The changes are fine" and "The changes are not fine and no matter what won't be fine"

Like shiet, the changes suck, but they were fair, that trait WAS overpowered. But they needed to put the dmg they removed, into something else, idc what, but we weren't op, the trait was, so removing the dmg and not replacing it anywhere, imo is a pretty shitty move. But the nerf was still needed.

They should have waited until they knew what they'd buff to balance it out, or atleast started at a small 2% nerf, then did the rest when they decided how to re-balance.

[last1214]

^ This.

Overtuned trait, you all knew it but you got a taste for it and you throw your toys out of the pram now that its taken away. MM is definitely underperforming on ST, I don't dispute that, but thats a problem you fix with general class tuning and not 1 completely over the top trait that gives far more power than any other single classes new traits.

Pretty much this. I really have nothing more to add to the conversation.

[satimy]

Pretty much this. I really have nothing more to add to the conversation.

There's a ptr

[Captain Proton]

Pretty much this. I really have nothing more to add to the conversation.

Maybe you or @Khrux can provide more insight for me then, because I find it to be illogical.

First, it uses the false assumption that artifact tuning isn't apart of "general class balance". Considering the reliance specs have on their artifacts, with some passive been moved baseline to artifacts, it's absolutely is part of class balance.

Second, it acknowledges that MM is underperforming in ST but then agrees with the nerf by reasoning of trait balance. Trait balance shouldn't even be considered. You wouldn't give the top dps spec the same increase as the lowest dps spec.

[Deleted]

Maybe 40% was a little bit op, but seriously, 16%? I dont really understand what's happening with MM hunters this exp, but it's like if there was no way we can excel in any encounter unless we are talking about a stupid/chaotic/aoe/cleave encounter.

Just with a 25-28% we could be able to have a decent performance in most of the encounters.

[Tiden7]

I am not going to complain because the trait did need a nerf however I do believe they were too heavy handed with it; 5-6% per point would have been fair.

[HappyLuckBox]

It's valid but not the best, the entire thing with belt, is that it buffs aimed shot. Which means Trick shot scales massively with it.

The only thing being meme spec has on Botanist that trick shot doesn't have, is more add dmg. If your raid team sucks and can't kill them sure, go Piercing, but if you have the belt, going piercing build only makes you lose power, whereas trick shot build gains it. (for the actual boss dmg)

Since most hunters are going to be doing p3 soaking, which is rather heavy movement, trickshot might fall under meme on overall damage. I was going to link Azortharions current rank 2 world parse on m bot, where it seems he played a hybrid meme spec build with belt using patient sniper instead of explosive but it seems to have disappeared. (probably privated?)


Anyway I would agree with you that in a vacuum, under optimal non movement conditions trickshot will overtake meme using belt, but the layout of M botanist is rather conducive to meme spec (imo). With piercing being able to hit 2 lashers + the boss when positioned properly, and weaved aimed shot w 20 stacks critting for 5k on the main boss, And all the movement of the right.... I would argue that meme will do more overall damage

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I am not going to complain because the trait did need a nerf however I do believe they were too heavy handed with it; 5-6% per point would have been fair.

I think the nerf is fine but they should have changed the second trait to be a dps throughput trait. Something like.... marked shot is now affected by vulnerable on the primary target. Or arcane shot/multishot have a 6% to trigger lnl. idk something

[Emerald Archer]

Since most hunters are going to be doing p3 soaking, which is rather heavy movement, trickshot might fall under meme on overall damage. I was going to link Azortharions current rank 2 world parse on m bot, where it seems he played a hybrid meme spec build with belt using patient sniper instead of explosive but it seems to have disappeared. (probably privated?)


Anyway I would agree with you that in a vacuum, under optimal non movement conditions trickshot will overtake meme using belt, but the layout of M botanist is rather conducive to meme spec (imo). With piercing being able to hit 2 lashers + the boss when positioned properly, and weaved aimed shot w 20 stacks critting for 5k on the main boss, And all the movement of the right.... I would argue that meme will do more overall damage

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I think the nerf is fine but they should have changed the second trait to be a dps throughput trait. Something like.... marked shot is now affected by vulnerable on the primary target. Or arcane shot/multishot have a 6% to trigger lnl. idk something

It's Azor, he pads an immense amount, and his raid team is okay with it, he does majority of add dmg on fights by far. Really not the best idea to see what he does and follow it blindly. He does what he does cause it will get him in his personal situation the most dps. There's a reason why people meme about him padding a lot.

I've killed Mythic Bot, and for our raid team, lashers didn't live over 3 seconds, making being able to hit them with PiS a waste, just wasn't needed. And the movement isn't that high. In p3 you have almost all of lust stand still to burn, then 40seconds of high movement where you can still cast a lot of aimed shots because the movement is so predictable, and then you're back to standing still till it dies because the rest calls kill themselves. Assuming you're one of the 2 even being asked to do it. There are better people to do it, like BM hunters and resto druids.

Again, it all comes down to your raid team and comp, which is why Botanist is one of the "sometimes" ones.

[Redseal]

Did a sim today, last night sim in my simple aoe spec, sim today was in ST spec, the aoe on a 1 boss sim was 60k higher then today. Checked on a sim I had saved pre patch ST down over 100k. Did a herioc instance, the lower ilvl rogue by 13 ilvls spanked me like I was not even there. There is an issue which seems more from just the 16%. I can handle a 16% nerf on meters, but the overall live play dps if more like 45- 50% in certain situations. Something is wrong for MM now they are just not telling us. Plus side, my aoe seemed decent.. but that does not help overall

[Dracodraco]

Did a sim today, last night sim in my simple aoe spec, sim today was in ST spec, the aoe on a 1 boss sim was 60k higher then today. Checked on a sim I had saved pre patch ST down over 100k. Did a herioc instance, the lower ilvl rogue by 13 ilvls spanked me like I was not even there. There is an issue which seems more from just the 16%. I can handle a 16% nerf on meters, but the overall live play dps if more like 45- 50% in certain situations. Something is wrong for MM now they are just not telling us. Plus side, my aoe seemed decent.. but that does not help overall

Uh. That's... That's not right buddy. Did you maybe unequip some gear for world quests and perhaps forget to put it back on? Because all things aside, our single target DPS went up with the patch even with the nerf to the new trait; Not down. We lost a bit of aimed shot crit from the nerf on that trait, but gained .5% overall damage from the replacement-paragon you get when you unlock your artifact, a long with the ~4-5% bonus from the vulnerable trait.

To put it bluntly; If you lost 60K sim DPS, you're doing something wrong. If you lost 16% overall dps, you're doing something wrong. if you think you lost 40-50% dps in a real fight scenario, you might have been dead half of the fight.