How valuable is Rend Soul post nerf (12%->4%)?

[Teroch]

So it's definitely a still strong gold trait, but would you still go directly to this rather than putting a 4th point in one or more of our old regular traits? Obviously when it was super OP it was a complete no-brainer, but is it still that clear-cut considering that a 4th point translates to the 7th and 8th point under reap?

Why are people still asking this. Read. It is still an 8% dps increase. 8%! From a single point. That's huge. No other class gets that. Yes, it's still what you go for first. Obviously. We're lucky if it doesn't get nerfed again because it's still the best new trait by far. The scaling on this and the new points is going to be insane, and I'm not sure Blizzard understands what they've done yet.

Judging by the crying displayed over this, something that needed to be done, to a talent that no one even had yet, I can't wait to see the reaction when they come for us in ToS because we're 250k above the next closest dps. It will be justified but the official and mmo-c forums will be full of people raging and claiming to be completely unviable.

[Trend]

Why are people still asking this. Read. It is still an 8% dps increase. 8%! From a single point. That's huge. No other class gets that. Yes, it's still what you go for first. Obviously. We're lucky if it doesn't get nerfed again because it's still the best new trait by far. The scaling on this and the new points is going to be insane, and I'm not sure Blizzard understands what they've done yet.

Judging by the crying displayed over this, something that needed to be done, to a talent that no one even had yet, I can't wait to see the reaction when they come for us in ToS because we're 250k above the next closest dps. It will be justified but the official and mmo-c forums will be full of people raging and claiming to be completely unviable.

Did you even read what I wrote?

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I would like the opinion of someone who is stable and not in automatic rage mode. Does this understandable nerf impact the order of traits you would select? (I am thinking not, I just want to hear others' thoughts.)

[Liarparadox]

Still a 8% dmg increase overall. Was ~20 % before and REALLY OP. Quit whining boys.

Yeah, this outrage. Blizz sucks at balancing; big surprise! But why are people pretending like they didn't know that? But here's the solution; i'm not joking. Since it pisses you people off soooooooooooo much to see what happens or doesn't happen on the PTR, why don't you stop following the PTR and blues so closely? Let the people who don't constantly rage out follow this stuff and give feedback. If you drop your obsessive PTR/blue following, you'll enjoy the game much more. For all you'll know this is just an adjustment for balancing and then you can evaluate whether it's good in game. You really don't need to know the entire history, from birth to live, to be an excellent player. But it seems like so many of you let the history of balancing ruin your enjoyment of the class/game and objectivity of in-game balancing. That's what matters people: in the actual game. Again, i get the annoyance; but you have the ability to remove it from your life. Of course you won't; because, well let's be honest, some of you just love to hate post over and over and over. Even if some theorycrafter came out to prove that the 4% is WAY OP; you'd still be pissed, cause it's sorta what you love at this point.

Talent still seems pretty decent to me; and likely still the one you'd want first.The proc is still doubled under reap.

[Teroch]

Did you even read what I wrote?

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I would like the opinion of someone who is stable and not in automatic rage mode. Does this understandable nerf impact the order of traits you would select? (I am thinking not, I just want to hear others' thoughts.)

Do you think the answer is going to be different just because you didn't like the fact that I pointed out it's obvious and you shouldn't even need to ask?

Ok, let's try again. Apologies, sir, for any curt tone that may have come across from my response. The 4th golden trait is still a significant dps gain, and will still be the first goal, with additional points following relic priority found in the stickied guide. The 4th point is not only a large gain in and of itself, but it effectively makes every point you spend in any other trait worth 2 instead of 1. By choosing it first, every point you spend afterward is even more effective.

There. Is that easier to swallow? You can wait for someone else to answer if I hurt your feelings.

[Trend]

Do you think the answer is going to be different just because you didn't like the fact that I pointed out it's obvious and you shouldn't even need to ask?

Ok, let's try again. Apologies, sir, for any curt tone that may have come across from my response. The 4th golden trait is still a significant dps gain, and will still be the first goal, with additional points following relic priority found in the stickied guide. The 4th point is not only a large gain in and of itself, but it effectively makes every point you spend in any other trait worth 2 instead of 1. By choosing it first, every point you spend afterward is even more effective.

There. Is that easier to swallow? You can wait for someone else to answer if I hurt your feelings.

You are an emo moron bro. I don't care about what your opinion is because you started your response with "Why are people still asking this" when nobody else has asked this on this forum. I have never seen you around otherwise, so if you are stupid in the one encounter in which I have seen you, then I care not what you say. That would be true even if I was not asking a totally open ended question that you got all worked up about. Total tool.

Infracted - Woz

[Teroch]

You are an emo moron bro. I don't care about what your opinion is because you started your response with "Why are people still asking this" when nobody else has asked this on this forum. I have never seen you around otherwise, so if you are stupid in the one encounter in which I have seen you, then I care not what you say. That would be true even if I was not asking a totally open ended question that you got all worked up about. Total tool.

So, even though that's the answer you're going to pretend it's not and be mad that you got the right answer? Got it.

I also like how you're talking about someone raging and being a "tool" when you're the one who appears to be quite angry and calling people names.

You can use your brain, you can run simulations, you can accept answers from someone who's already done it, or you can wait until someone comes along and gives you the answer in a manner that you find pleasing.

[erinthea]

Pre nerf yes 1 point in the other 4/4 traits became 2 because reap was able to be up 100% of the time now its close to 1.6 points. even the nerf itself is actually a 75% nerf not a 66% nerf it appears to be

at reaped 24% buff that is up 100% time maintaining that 24% proc value

A 4% buff that can be up an average of 60% of the time to be 8% means the actual value of the proc is @6% So the actual nerf was 75% and that's not including the proc damage also being nerfed and it also proccing at 1/4 the original rate.

[Trend]

So, even though that's the answer you're going to pretend it's not and be mad that you got the right answer? Got it.

I also like how you're talking about someone raging and being a "tool" when you're the one who appears to be quite angry and calling people names.

You can use your brain, you can run simulations, you can accept answers from someone who's already done it, or you can wait until someone comes along and gives you the answer in a manner that you find pleasing.

Keep making up your stories you angry little kid. I disregard anything you say because you are some random guy who is an a-hole. I do not have strong feelings on the subject itself, and in fact I would tend to agree with the opinion that going straight to rend is still the way to go, I was just asking because the math did change and I was less than positive. I would just like to converse on the topic with some people who are not total d'bags. No offense, but when someone shows themselves to be a total dickwad I just couldn't care less about what they think about any topic, whether I agree or disagree with what they say. So keep raging and pretending I'm saying something or doing something I'm not and enjoy yourself.

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A 4% buff that can be up an average of 60% of the time to be 8% means the actual value of the proc is @6% So the actual nerf was 75% and that's not including the proc damage also being nerfed and it also proccing at 1/4 the original rate.

Honest question ... are your numbers on the basis of sims or is it more of napkin math?

[Count Zero]

You don't want to go into a tuning patch as the highest-simming spec, just saying.

[Shadowswann]

Doomsday incoming for aff anyway :/ , matter of time

[Liarparadox]

You don't want to go into a tuning patch as the highest-simming spec, just saying.

Absolutely. And, I could seriously see us getting another nerf in the next 2 weeks. Or at least before the next raid comes out. Aff is crazy strong in 7.2.

[Cardio32]

First glance at warcraft logs we looked broken and completely out of hand:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t&difficulty=4

[Count Zero]

Ugh, I really don't want to sit on my ap tokens until the tuning patch comes out ... :/

But I just am very concerned I'll have to ditch Destro for Aff, and I'd like to know whether to bother putting AP into Destro.

[Jondar]

Ugh, I really don't want to sit on my ap tokens until the tuning patch comes out ... :/

But I just am very concerned I'll have to ditch Destro for Aff, and I'd like to know whether to bother putting AP into Destro.

I mean, the answer lies more in your raid group since they do entirely different things. Do you need more target swap potential or do you need more single target damage? They will both perform good enough for their respective roles. Play whichever you think is going to be more useful to your group. Early projections aren't going to make your decision any better.

[Count Zero]

I mean, the answer lies more in your raid group since they do entirely different things. Do you need more target swap potential or do you need more single target damage? They will both perform good enough for their respective roles. Play whichever you think is going to be more useful to your group. Early projections aren't going to make your decision any better.

I'm not saying the problem is Destro's viability. It's viable in most situations (and really, in every situation that exists currently on live). But even in those respective roles, Destro needs its niche strength to be average. So it's a matter of being decent (literally middle of the pack) in like two situations (add burst and sustained two-target cleave [which is actually just about equal to Aff right now]) and bottom tier (literally last or next to last) in all the rest ... vs being top-tier in most situations and just decent in like one (being decent means being equal to one of Destro's two niches here).

Again, Destro is viable in those situations - if you're in a guild where the difference between one playing being Destro or Aff is the cause of your failure to progress, there are bigger problems - but with the tuning currently as-is it's very hard to make this about niches, and it would have to be about niches to stay Destro:

I know Destro and Aff are not going to do a full position swap. At the most, Aff gets dumped down to like top 75% for most fights and Destro gets bumped up to about middle of the pack (and thus is killing it on its like two currently middle of the pack fights). And that would be enough for me to want to stick with Destro since I've been playing the entire xpac to its few strengths despite its pronounced weaknesses. But I can't even be sure that's going to happen, which is why I'm anxious about spending my points before the tuning patch.

[Deleted]

Just gotten this trait, was pretty underwhelming,

The dmg might aswell have been 0 it's only really worth for the shards. and when you sometimes does a boss encounter of a min or around that when you get 0 proc's its pretty gay.

If they upped it to 7 % it would be perfectly balanaced. or triple the dmg and let it stay at 4 %

[Liarparadox]

First glance at warcraft logs we looked broken and completely out of hand:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t&difficulty=4

And yet we have people whining all day long about Affliction. To be fair, I'm not sure how much those stats mean prior to people getting their 4th golden trait and 4/4 on other traits. We have to wait and see a bit. But Aff's 4th golden is pretty strong even after the nerf; so we should still be in a pretty good spot.

[BannedForViews]

Well didnt it have 70-80% uptime with 12%?

Seems like it was kinda warranted. tho down to 4% seems typical blizzard moron balancing.

We already have 70-80% uptime because all adds proc souls now. It's an overreaction to Rend Souls.

[Zmaniac17]

I used it tonight in raid. I don't have logs to post but it was a solid upgrade. On par with the other golden dragons we have. If you were looking for a ridiculous OP trait then you'll be disappointed of course. The only thing disappointing about it imo is that the trait is another reason to stand still and only focus one target. It has a really strong niche now. I think it pushes us further away from wanting to ever use writhe in agony and soul effigy. Hopefully blizzard will realize this at some point.

[BannedForViews]

It was simmed and even after nerf its a 8.4% up in dps when you get the golden making it the best golden of all spec and one of the best classwise.

So :

1) Stop spouting nonsense and bullshits

2) Stop crying , thank you

It isn't 8.4%. This is complete bullshit. Sims have a 51% estimated reap uptime. Anyone who did NH this week can tell you it's more like 80%. The souls benefit from Rend Souls is being WAY overestimated. The damage proc is awful.

Take my Krosus kill this week. I had 136 drain ticks, with a 40.5% uptime on DS. at 4% I'd gain 5-6 Rend Soul damage procs, on average. My Rend Soul tooltip says about 183k. Toss in my crit rate and the trait gives me about 1.25mil extra damage, out of the 251.4mil I did. That's about 0.5% increase in my damage just from the proc. it also means I'd get about 11 souls, on average. Assuming I get to use them all perfectly, I'd take me up to about 94% uptime, from 77%. we know that won't be the case, so lets just say 90%. Assuming I get a 25% damage bonus by having deadwind up, we can estimate 90/77 = 17% more uptime. 17% x 0.25 gives about 4.5% more damage, probably best case, and I even doubt that.

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And yet we have people whining all day long about Affliction. To be fair, I'm not sure how much those stats mean prior to people getting their 4th golden trait and 4/4 on other traits. We have to wait and see a bit. But Aff's 4th golden is pretty strong even after the nerf; so we should still be in a pretty good spot.

Affliction basically grabbed 8% crit overnight and souls off every add. it's no wonder we look better all of a sudden. Wait until people start filling their weapons in.