Getting kicked from new Heroic dungeon

[Katchii]

I was saying from the day LFG was introduced that it should be matching groups with equal ilvl. It would be a better experience for everyone, and you wouldn't get "elitists" and "scrubs" in the same groups.

Unfortunately Blizzard's intention seemed to be to force the geared players carry ungeared players so that they would stay subbed.

Or to ensure players later in the expansion or alts even are able to get a group just as fast as you can. Separating the player pool like that wouldn't do any favors for anyone except the elitist jerks who CBA to help out a lowbie who's just trying to have fun. If this were a Mythic+ dungeon or a progression raid, I'd completely understand the mentality, but a Heroic dungeon that most groups can roflstomp their way through in their sleep....kicking people is pointless unless they're literally doing nothing (meaning they're AFK at the entrance the whole time.)

That said, if you're in gear appropriate to be doing 200k DPS, you should be doing 200k DPS....don't slack off. Just perform... all there is to it.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

There was only one time I got kicked during legion and while I was the 2nd highest dps, it was because they were all in the same guild and didn't like it that I healed and did some dps. Mind you, I was a disc priest; that's kind of my thing.

Some people are just too stupid for their own good. I shook it off and moved on.

Just remember:

[Hyxi]

I ran the same HC with an overgeared Tank (me), DH, SP and Healer. We boosted 1 DPS that did basicly nothing... because the burst of a DH is so insane, he could barely do anything as well. No problems what so ever, we melted trough the bosses.

Moral of the story, no this is not what wow has become. You were just unlucky you met those douches.... However, 200k is not much ... git gud?

A few days old alt ilvl 835 and only 2 relic slots? I don't think I'd expect much more than 200k.

[Saverem]

because it's a heroic dungeon and not a mythic +15 and the guy's not even 840 yet.

read the op, jesus.

Do not take the lord's name in vain!

ITT: A bunch of bad casuals crying about people kicking other bad casuals for obvious reasons. Sad.

[Deleted]

A few days old alt ilvl 835 and only 2 relic slots? I don't think I'd expect much more than 200k.

I just did a LFR Gul 'Dan where alot of DPS did lower than 100k DPS ... and I'm pretty sure you need a ilvl before you can join it. So i'm gonna believe you that 200k was the max you could pull out ...I remember when legion just got released <100 k was already pretty low tho

[markos82]

Because you don't deserve to be carried if you're bad. Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with being good, better, or elitist. It comes down to people taking personal responsibility. Something this world and this game is clearly lacking.

Do you have a problem to understand certain things? If you can enter HC with ilvl825 you are not expected to do 300+ dps, and if in that group there are ppl that are 890-910 ofc they will carry that person,because a dps/tank 910 can solo most of HC dungeons. It is not about l2p its about logic and using your brain to realize that not everyone has high ilvl...

[Korban]

If a few 880-900+ are there, you'd do 3x the dps of a newly geared 825 anyway so whats the problem, just finish the run.

"You've worked hard your whole life and are making a few million $$$ per year. What's the problem, give some of that money away for free to random people , you have enough."

Fucking commies, i swear to God.

[Vzz]

"You've worked hard your whole life and are making a few million $$$ per year. What's the problem, give some of that money away for free to random people , you have enough."

Fucking commies, i swear to God.

This is charity, man. And this is happening in RL, wake up.

[Deleted]

Or to ensure players later in the expansion or alts even are able to get a group just as fast as you can. Separating the player pool like that wouldn't do any favors for anyone except the elitist jerks who CBA to help out a lowbie who's just trying to have fun.

It would do great favor to casuals like me. There is no fun in running behind some over geared "elitist jerk" that is one-shotting everything in a dungeon. And there is no point in a fast queue if it doesn't lead to a fun experience.

[Katchii]

It would do great favor to casuals like me. There is no fun in running behind some over geared "elitist jerk" that is one-shotting everything in a dungeon. And there is no point in a fast queue if it doesn't lead to a fun experience.

I honestly have no basis for comparison that mimics this. However, in Star Wars: The Old Republic, after introducing matched party making everyone was super excited. The problem was, the party finder only looked at specific level ranges for specific dungeons and the ranges were pretty small. So it separated the players, not exactly the same as you're discussing but kind of similarly. The result was queue times that were simply ridiculous, 30+ minutes for tanks, 40+ minutes for healers and upwards of 2 hours for DPS.

The risk you run by asking for this separation by ilevel, is that you can possibly lengthen the queue times to the point no one will use the LFD tool and will just use the Group Finder to create a premade group...which is an option everyone who doesn't want to deal with the current LFG experience already has. So IMO there's no reason to do the work to do the separation since another option already exists.

[Deleted]

The risk you run by asking for this separation by ilevel, is that you can possibly lengthen the queue times to the point no one will use the LFD tool and will just use the Group Finder to create a premade group...

I don't think that's a serious risk. We're talking about a couple a buckets (low, medium, high) of gear. Also the dynamics of queue times are probably mostly determined by the mix of roles, not the total number of players (obviously bounded by the total arrival rate).

And like I said, any system that puts me into a group of an overgeared player is simply useless to me, I don't want or enjoy that. So even a 2h wait would be better than the current system.

[Katchii]

I don't think that's a serious risk. We're talking about a couple a buckets (low, medium, high) of gear. Also the dynamics of queue times are probably mostly determined by the mix of roles, not the total number of players (obviously bounded by the total arrival rate).

And like I said, any system that puts me into a group of an overgeared player is simply useless to me, I don't want or enjoy that. So even a 2h wait would be better than the current system.

No it wouldn't because at that point it's likely that no one would use it and you wouldn't ever get to be in a group. A system that no one uses is just as bad, if not worse, than a system that doesn't exist.

And you technically already have an option to get into a group of like minded and equally geared people; create your own group. So there is honestly no pressing reason for Blizzard to work on creating a new matchmaking system when an option already exists for the (I'm guessing) small minority who just CBA to deal with the current system.

And there is a risk, because at some point in time one or more of those buckets won't have the population needed to support reasonable queue times (as time goes on people will change from low to high and there will be fewer people with low at the end of an expansion for example). Queue times are a function of both the number of people and the mix of roles in queue, if the group needs a fixed party composition. Higher number = more of every role = more groups = lower queue times, lower number = less of every role = fewer groups = higher queue times. For example, in a population of only 6 people and groups consist of 1tank:1healer:1DPS...that 6th person will have to wait for the tank and healer to get out of their dungeon before getting joined with them in queue, if they even queue again. In a population of a few hundred, the concept is the same, but the churn of players through the system increases therefore creating more opportunities for everyone queueing to get into a matched group thereby decreasing the overall wait time.

[Deleted]

No it wouldn't because at that point it's likely that no one would use it and you wouldn't ever get to be in a group.

That's a circular argument (and hence pointless): Nobody uses the queue so it takes a long time, and because it takes a long time nobody uses the queue.

And you technically already have an option to get into a group of like minded and equally geared people; create your own group.

Technical ability option nothing, only practical option does. And in practice, in today's WoW, LFG is the only viable choice for a casual like me. I'd be perfectly fine getting rid of the whole LFG though, and think the game would be improved for me.

Higher number = more of every role = more groups = lower queue times, lower number = less of every role = fewer groups = higher queue times.

You're missing the fact that with higher number of people in the queue also means that more groups will have to be formed before you get served. Whether you have one queue forming 2 groups per minute, or two queues forming 1 group per minute, you still get the same result.

And my fundamental point is that it is not fun for me to play in a group where one person overgears the other significantly. So any queueing system that puts me into such a group is only wasting my time. In fact it's one of the main reasons why I don't play WoW anymore.

[Katchii]

That's a circular argument (and hence pointless): Nobody uses the queue so it takes a long time, and because it takes a long time nobody uses the queue.



Technical ability option nothing, only practical option does. And in practice, in today's WoW, LFG is the only viable choice for a casual like me. I'd be perfectly fine getting rid of the whole LFG though, and think the game would be improved for me.



You're missing the fact that with higher number of people in the queue also means that more groups will have to be formed before you get served. Whether you have one queue forming 2 groups per minute, or two queues forming 1 group per minute, you still get the same result.

And my fundamental point is that it is not fun for me to play in a group where one person overgears the other significantly. So any queueing system that puts me into such a group is only wasting my time. In fact it's one of the main reasons why I don't play WoW anymore.

Why is LFG the only viable option? Why is the Group Finder not practical? Have you tried doing what you're asking in the Group Finder to see how it would do? I

Populations means something regarding queue times, I don't think either of us have a 100% understanding of exactly how the system works, the algorithms involved etc... but, I can tell you that a game like WoW vs a game like Wildstar both with cross realm group finder capability...WoW has significantly shorter queue times.

[yarafx1]

I decided to come check out the cool new stuff in 7.2. Was doing my quest chain then it sent me to CoN heroic. We were on 2nd to last boss and I died (i was dps and group didn't wipe). The group looked like it had really geared people, I didn't check their gear but they had like 3.5mil hp for dps and 5mil hp tank from different servers. I was reading the "Kick everyone under 200k dps" thread the other day and now this happens to me.

Is this what WoW has become now? Elitists everywhere?

Edit: Context
My Ilvl was 835 at the time, haven't got 3rd relic slot yet (just made an alt few days ago and is time gated)
Everyone else is 900+ ilvl.
feel free to armoury the people on recount if you don't believe me.
some screenshots from recount for those who assume im doing 150k dps
<snip?>

There is no reason why you can't do 200k dps a fresh toon that can que for a heroic dungeon can do 200kdps....

[Seliar]

There is no reason why you can't do 200k dps a fresh toon that can que for a heroic dungeon can do 200kdps....

The memory of the players nowdays are very very bad. No, you can't do 200k dps on a fresh toon without 3rd relic and 835 ilvl, that's almost impossible. Just check warcraftlogs how much dps did the players in EN in 840-845 ilvl, there are barely any logs with more than 200k dps, because that needs insane luck and/or bis legendaries and of course 3 relics.

- - - Updated - - -

Thats kinda my motto now. If you are in my LFR or LFD group, you will pull your weight or kick.

Yeah, you must kick yourself than too, because you are the perfect example of being carried with your scores of 15 on wlogs.

[Deleted]

I like having one or two people in my daily random heroic group that barely pass the ilvl requirements. It's much more fun to me to have someone to give my loot to who can equip it and be happy, rather than vendor it for 30g. My dps by myself is about twice what is actually required from all three dpsers combined, so i couldn't care less about how little other dpsers are doing or how often they die - as long as they're trying their best.

[mizeri]

only kick people that are rude in chat, i can carry the group even if they are doing less then 200k in a heroic, kick tanks and healers for being rude also.

[yarafx1]

The memory of the players nowdays are very very bad. No, you can't do 200k dps on a fresh toon without 3rd relic and 835 ilvl, that's almost impossible. Just check warcraftlogs how much dps did the players in EN in 840-845 ilvl, there are barely any logs with more than 200k dps, because that needs insane luck and/or bis legendaries and of course 3 relics.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, you must kick yourself than too, because you are the perfect example of being carried with your scores of 15 on wlogs.

At that time we also were struggle busing with AP and were at 2 Gold Traits. IF that. 200k is not hard to pull on nearly any class at a 825-830 ilvl.

Given in saying that who the fuck kicks a dps from a heroic. The only time I kick people is if they aren't staying with us and trying at all.

[Jyggalag]

Don't know how anybody can complain that there are "elitists" in this game. This game used to be fucking HARD. And I'm not comparing to mythic content of today because obviously current raids and M+ are the some of the most challenging aspects this game has ever had. I'm talking about the entirety of the rest of the game. Anything under mythic is just a brainless button spam fucking slot machine with endless rewards and 0 challenge. 90% of the player-base today wouldn't fucking survive a week in Vanilla or TBC.

The fact you can even randomly be placed in a group with up to 4 players who can massively outgear content and carry your ass to the end in a matter of minutes without a shred of CC, who don't have a say in how the loot is distributed, and then complain when some of them don't want you when you're shit, slowing them down, ruining their gameplay experience because you're so fucking lazy you can't jump on to icy-veins and be told exactly how to improve 100 different things you're doing wrong in less than 60 seconds, when most classes have been dumbed down so much that literally anybody with half a brain can press the relevant buttons when they light up is mind-blowing.

People like me are "elitist" because we're sick listening to people like you demand that you have all the rewards spoon fed because you pay £9/month. The developers are constantly fucking this game in a direction that they'll never be able to reverse because of people like you who view anyone who wants to be good at the game and efficient with their time as "elitist".

I got to my first dungeon just before the release of BC and hadn't a clue what I was doing. My first raid in BC and I was kicked instantly when people saw my gear. Did I complain those people were being unfair or "elitist"? No - the first thing I did was research what I was doing wrong, so that it didn't happen again and I have never encountered the same problem since.