[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Nevcairiel]

Blizzard has not elaborated how bad luck protection works.

[roi]

Bad luck protection is basically good luck prevention :P

And yes, since 7.2 your first two spec-specific legendaries will drop at a much quicker rate than future ones, however, shared legendaries (such as ekowraith or prydaz, which can drop in all four specs) count as "spec-specific" - meaning if your first two legendaries were let's say prydaz and sephuz, you won't benefit from this "spec-specific" g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶l̶u̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ bad luck protection anymore.

[Ausr]

Well, pulled a trash pack with artifact power going for 10 seconds and oh look, my brewmaster co tank pulled everything off me instantly. Totally fixed by buffing our damage.

[roi]

Monks have an AoE taunt, ya know? Impossible to hold aggro against that lol, regardless of your own damage.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115315/...lack-ox-statue

[Ausr]

Monks have an AoE taunt, ya know? Impossible to hold aggro against that lol, regardless of your own damage.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115315/...lack-ox-statue

No, he told me what he did. It wasn't a taunt.

[Hydrant]

Bad luck protection is basically good luck prevention :P

And yes, since 7.2 your first two spec-specific legendaries will drop at a much quicker rate than future ones, however, shared legendaries (such as ekowraith or prydaz, which can drop in all four specs) count as "spec-specific" - meaning if your first two legendaries were let's say prydaz and sephuz, you won't benefit from this "spec-specific" g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶l̶u̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ bad luck protection anymore.

Well in my case it was bear ring and luffas. As I understand I will get some boomkin and resto legs pretty quickly?

[Sonnillon]

Well, pulled a trash pack with artifact power going for 10 seconds and oh look, my brewmaster co tank pulled everything off me instantly. Totally fixed by buffing our damage.

They reduced damage on Swipe (?) and buffing single target abilities and Thrash so I guess the AoE part is still lacking? I have stopped trying to keep aggro any trash... DH, BrM, DK and rest kinda get all the fun , I can get maybe one (?) mob to myself ^^

- - - Updated - - -

I need some advice concering set bonuses and legendaries. What combination is the best way for survival? I know that I should be aiming bit more DPS oriented for Heroic content (cause that is my ceiling in raiding for the time being/not a big fan of m+ so not doing those at all), but I feel that the extra niftiness for survival is much more beneficial then more DPS, specially that my co-tank is the squishy type. Out of what I have.
Just cannot figure really out the things. Specially that I really-really like Dual Det. ring which I really don't want to drop at all. Would like to keep the 4-set bonus and still maintain somewhat higher ilvl. All the guides I glanced have just legendary lists, rather then how to combined set bonus with those.

From Legendariers:
Luffa's
Dual Determination - my co-to ring which I don't want to give up!
Ecowratith
Skysec's
Sephuz's

I have in selection Tier:
1) 890 chest
2) 875 shoulders
3) 890 cloak
4) 895 gloves
I should have (not 100% sure) rest of the tier pieces as well legs/head - all should be drops from normal, but as I cannot access game not sure on the ilvl.

Optional item in bags: Crashing Oceantide Mantle @ 905 ilvl

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...c3%ad/advanced

[Ausr]

They reduced damage on Swipe (?) and buffing single target abilities and Thrash so I guess the AoE part is still lacking? I have stopped trying to keep aggro any trash... DH, BrM, DK and rest kinda get all the fun , I can get maybe one (?) mob to myself ^^

- - - Updated - - -

I need some advice concering set bonuses and legendaries. What combination is the best way for survival? I know that I should be aiming bit more DPS oriented for Heroic content (cause that is my ceiling in raiding for the time being/not a big fan of m+ so not doing those at all), but I feel that the extra niftiness for survival is much more beneficial then more DPS, specially that my co-tank is the squishy type. Out of what I have.
Just cannot figure really out the things. Specially that I really-really like Dual Det. ring which I really don't want to drop at all. Would like to keep the 4-set bonus and still maintain somewhat higher ilvl. All the guides I glanced have just legendary lists, rather then how to combined set bonus with those.

From Legendariers:
Luffa's
Dual Determination - my co-to ring which I don't want to give up!
Ecowratith
Skysec's
Sephuz's

I have in selection Tier:
1) 890 chest
2) 875 shoulders
3) 890 cloak
4) 895 gloves
I should have (not 100% sure) rest of the tier pieces as well legs/head - all should be drops from normal, but as I cannot access game not sure on the ilvl.

Optional item in bags: Crashing Oceantide Mantle @ 905 ilvl

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...c3%ad/advanced

Just buff overall threat for guardian druids. What's so hard about this? I'd like to tank trash and contribute. I don't mind if you pull mobs off me if I'm not focused on some mobs but jesus, just coming in and doing your aoe and you instantly pull everything off me regardless of how long I've been on the mob is a problem.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

They reduced damage on Swipe (?) and buffing single target abilities and Thrash so I guess the AoE part is still lacking? I have stopped trying to keep aggro any trash... DH, BrM, DK and rest kinda get all the fun , I can get maybe one (?) mob to myself ^^

- - - Updated - - -

I need some advice concering set bonuses and legendaries. What combination is the best way for survival? I know that I should be aiming bit more DPS oriented for Heroic content (cause that is my ceiling in raiding for the time being/not a big fan of m+ so not doing those at all), but I feel that the extra niftiness for survival is much more beneficial then more DPS, specially that my co-tank is the squishy type. Out of what I have.
Just cannot figure really out the things. Specially that I really-really like Dual Det. ring which I really don't want to drop at all. Would like to keep the 4-set bonus and still maintain somewhat higher ilvl. All the guides I glanced have just legendary lists, rather then how to combined set bonus with those.

From Legendariers:
Luffa's
Dual Determination - my co-to ring which I don't want to give up!
Ecowratith
Skysec's
Sephuz's

I have in selection Tier:
1) 890 chest
2) 875 shoulders
3) 890 cloak
4) 895 gloves
I should have (not 100% sure) rest of the tier pieces as well legs/head - all should be drops from normal, but as I cannot access game not sure on the ilvl.

Optional item in bags: Crashing Oceantide Mantle @ 905 ilvl

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...c3%ad/advanced

The ring legendary loses value because it has no armor. Also, do you always use 3-4 Survival Instincts every fight? If not it's a wasted item.
I'd go with Chest and Boots for surv. But I love luffa so much, I'd go with Chest/Luffa. You asked for survival though.
Make sure you get Shoulders/Gloves/Legs/Cloak as tier. And if you get a better legendary like Elize swap legs for chest tier.
If you don't have a legendary item as a tier slot. Go for Shoulders/Cloak/Chest/Legs

[Sonnillon]

The ring legendary loses value because it has no armor. Also, do you always use 3-4 Survival Instincts every fight? If not it's a wasted item.

Might be bad play by me, but yes SI gets used up to it's full amount of 3 stacks on almost every fight. Maybe I am way too liberal in using a big defensive CD or maybe I suck that bad that it compensates for my mistakes...

I'd go with Chest and Boots for surv. But I love luffa so much, I'd go with Chest/Luffa. You asked for survival though.
Make sure you get Shoulders/Gloves/Legs/Cloak as tier. And if you get a better legendary like Elize swap legs for chest tier.
If you don't have a legendary item as a tier slot. Go for Shoulders/Cloak/Chest/Legs

Thanks for this. Need to browse my bags and play around with gear a bit.

Just out of curiousity how much DPS does the Thrash relics as well as going with DPS legendaries add over all? My numbers are very small on the DPS side, so it's either I am specced "too defensively" or I suck that much :/

Thanks again.

[Nevcairiel]

Just out of curiousity how much DPS does the Thrash relics as well as going with DPS legendaries add over all? My numbers are very small on the DPS side, so it's either I am specced "too defensively" or I suck that much :/

The "overall" percentage-wise contribution of a thrash relic depends on how many you have already, and of course the type of fight.

Wednesdays Krosus Heroic for me (7.2):
Thrash contribution is 16.71% (direct) + 4.96% (dot), ie. 21.67% of my overall damage.

I have 5 ranks of JC (3/4 and 2 relics), thats a 50% increase (ie. Thrash does 150% damage of normal)

So, 150% Thrash Damage yields 21.67%, without those two relics, that would reduce to 18.78% (21.67 / 1.5 * 1.3), which then means my two JC relics contribute overall 2.89% DPS on Krosus.

The other way around, adding another rank of JC (ie. by skilling 4/4 eventually) would add 1.44% damage overall for this particular fight.

Of course on fights with multiple targets, the contribution of Thrash would be much higher, and the value of JC relics go up accordingly.
But you can take the same math used here and apply it to any log of any fight you have to get a rough estimate. Look at your Thrash contribution, and scale it properly to include the JC traits and relics.

In short, Thrash relics are no magic to increase your overall DPS double-digit percentages. But they are the strongest DPS option we have.
Mangle is around 22% damage contribution on that log, and a single mangle trait rank only adds 7%, so even single-target its the weaker DPS option.

For legendaries - Luffa adds another 25% on Thrash (multiplicative), so you can do the same math as above (its roughly a 5% increase overall on single target, more on AoE of course)

Elize bumps up the DoT by 2 more stacks, as well as increasing R&T contribution. The DoT part adds maybe 2-3% overall if its up all the time, the R&T adds 4% flat on all damage, so its really strong as well.

[Sonnillon]

My math skills are as weak as they get so after reading what you posted @Nevcairiel, not really managing to follow you. But what I did get is that Thrash relics in general is not that big of a DPS increase in general and if my numbers are low (which compared to other tanks who I've tanked with on N and HC) is me failing on my primary skill usage.
How far off am I with my priority of skills and over all damage from the general what a guardian should be doing with my gear? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ty=0&source=17 - do appologize if this is not the right place to discuss and I should make a topic of my own.
How much does the fact that I lead (read babysit) the raid while tanking should effect my overall performance? I know it's probably individual, but still - any RL guardians here?

I did go over my logs and I think I have to withdraw my statment on SI usage, at least this reset. So I guess I really have to consider the other options mentioned for raiding, the occasional mythic and PUG it's different matter.

[Nevcairiel]

How far off am I with my priority of skills and over all damage from the general what a guardian should be doing with my gear?

Just looking at some of the logs, ie. Krosus again because simple.

The fight is slightly over 4 minutes, so even without haste you could fit roughly ~40 Thrash casts in there, but the log shows 31, so making sure that Thrash is used in cooldown at all times will likely already help. Your thrash dot even expired a few times!

The same goes for Mangle, always use on Cooldown, and pay attention to Gore procs that reset the Mangle CD (especially with 2pc), as well as any GG Moonfire procs.

[roi]

After the swipe nerf, it doesn't seem to be worth using over mangle (for less than 4 targets) or GG moonfire (less than 3 targets). Single target sometimes my auto attack damage is higher than swipe overall, kinda sad. Slowly reaching maul-levels of terribad.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

My math skills are as weak as they get so after reading what you posted @Nevcairiel, not really managing to follow you. But what I did get is that Thrash relics in general is not that big of a DPS increase in general and if my numbers are low (which compared to other tanks who I've tanked with on N and HC) is me failing on my primary skill usage.
How far off am I with my priority of skills and over all damage from the general what a guardian should be doing with my gear? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ty=0&source=17 - do appologize if this is not the right place to discuss and I should make a topic of my own.
How much does the fact that I lead (read babysit) the raid while tanking should effect my overall performance? I know it's probably individual, but still - any RL guardians here?

I did go over my logs and I think I have to withdraw my statment on SI usage, at least this reset. So I guess I really have to consider the other options mentioned for raiding, the occasional mythic and PUG it's different matter.

Going through your logs now if that's OK. Will edit when I have ideas.
One thing I'm going to mention though is that Thrash relics do matter. Having a useless trait means you only have the ilvl on weapon. But 10% thrash damage can easily make up 2-3% increased boss damage. And that's a bigger increase than food/runes will give you.

Started on Krosus: Everything seemed fine for a while. But you're using WAY too much moonfire. Like obscene. You cast moonfire 100 times and got GG 30 times. That's 70 globals wasted to moonfire.
Only moonfire when you have a GG proc. You're also misjudging the damage taken on Krosus.
75% of damage taken on that fight is the dot. Only 10-15% is melee attacks.
Make sure Ursol is up 100% of the time you have the dot on you.
Use Ironfurs in between when you can and on smashes.

[Deleted]

I've just checked my krosus M logs before and after patch.
autoattacks are actually higher in damage than swipe now.
that's really kinda sad.

€: I've checked my % - contribution now as well, because it's different from the guy who posted above. Be aware I didn't catweave I'm currently too lazy in farm raids. And I have Luffas and 3 Thrash relicts.

Trash direct damage 22,2% + 9,5% dot damage
20,6% Moonfire damage
19,9% mangle damage

+ swipe, autoattack, hidden satyr, RotS, Old war, brambles and nythendra trinket proccs. and maul at some points......maul... you haunt me. why did blizz feel the need to include another maul relict in the new dungeon. ARGH


€2: for a quick check on logs, you can try using checkmywow.
I've uploaded your log
http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/QH...34/5?tab=basic

There you get a rough overview of what you can improve.
Not casting moonfire 50 times without having the procc might be a start

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Another post because I think it would get totally not read if I include another edit in my last post.

Are you guys also super underwhelmed by the T20 so far?
Is there still a point complaining or do you think it's fixed and they will most likely only change numbers from this points?
Should we complain or are you happy?

I will definitely always stick to my T19 2P at least. Or actually farm NH for TF, so I don't have to play with T20

€: And I just realized, it won't make another post

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Another post because I think it would get totally not read if I include another edit in my last post.

Are you guys also super underwhelmed by the T20 so far?
Is there still a point complaining or do you think it's fixed and they will most likely only change numbers from this points?
Should we complain or are you happy?

I will definitely always stick to my T19 2P at least. Or actually farm NH for TF, so I don't have to play with T20

€: And I just realized, it won't make another post

Yes, very underwhelming compared to T19 but T19 has been a great tier set for us overall. T20 is more in line with other tier bonusses.
I think you can still give feedback. The raid is months away still I hope.

[Yxiomel]

I really hope the T20 is not final for guardians... actually a lot of the T20 tanks bonuses look ill-conceived.

[roi]

T20 bonuses are probably rather strong in their current state (during high damage phases you can probably get an FR charge every 8-10 seconds or so, even lower during bristling fur and IF spamming?), just a bit boring. Like a tank version of CoF that would be better suited for a trinket rather than tier set. Doubt it's final though in any case, also who knows how the MoU rework will turn out, that will probably affect a bunch of other stuff as well.

[Soulwell]

The only thing t20 seems good for is doing M+ without a healer. Outside of that I seriously doubt we will be taking that much damage outside of cheesing oneshot mechanics.