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  1. #201
    I do miss the old survival spec a great deal. They should bring it back but I would say perhaps add a change to it. Rename it Dark Ranger and change the flavor of the spells to unholy. The old playstyle already falls in line with an unholy theme.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by wacked2015 View Post
    I do miss the old survival spec a great deal. They should bring it back but I would say perhaps add a change to it. Rename it Dark Ranger and change the flavor of the spells to unholy. The old playstyle already falls in line with an unholy theme.
    I would have to agree. Shadow magic, poisons, could make some very fun, flashy shot effects. I still love MM but it would be nice to have an off spec that I enjoy again. Plus, it's not like we need more melee in this game

  3. #203
    Deleted
    Old Survival is never coming back. Never ever. To even suggest it is silly - As far as abilities and flavor goes, it has absolutely nothing. It's one single (and very uninteresting) niche it had going for it, was being the designated PvP spec with slightly improved traps. Nothing else. Marksman cannibalized it and it's gonna stay that way, and it's overall a good thing. Like with Demon Hunters, it's better to channel everything into a singular spec than artificially splitting up ideas between to virtually identical ones. Old Survival was an abortion stitched together once hunters stop using melee weapons and it took Blizzard years to finally just bury it. Its place in the game has been tenuous for several expansions now.

    And to those that wanna RP as a Dark Ranger, you're still going the Marksman route. Blizz even threw you a huge bone years ago by making it petless.

    A very important thing in all of this, is that melee Survival has a lot of potential and could eventually blossom into a beautiful thing of its. It's just a shame that it plays like garbage and feels steeped in vanilla gameplay design.

    You Survival naysayers also need to be honest with yourselves: You never actually liked old Survival, you just really hate the fact hunters actually have a melee spec now. And to a point, I see where you're coming from because if rogues were given a range spec, I'd probably also be crossed at that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by last1214 View Post
    I can't really stand playing melee classes anymore, and they used to be the main thing I played. I tried really hard to get back into my rogue and even tried out a demon hunter. My main complaint with both of them: I'm slaved to melee range and no longer have the freedom I once had as a ranged.
    So you really liked melee once, but you hate melee because you play in melee range. Oooookay then.

  4. #204
    Yeah sure a Dark Ranger theme would also work, it's another thing that has been asked for a while. Personally I'd prefer a more tech/gadget heavy spec, but whatever works to bring back MoP SV is good in my books.

  5. #205
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    Miss the tired old spec all you want, just don't take my melee hunter. It's the most fun I've had in WoW in years. Super fun and compelling rotation, satisfying procs, chaining around like a warrior with no charge CD. I couldn't care less that everyone is so turned off by change, the spec is a blast. AND I got to keep my pet. Seriously not seeing the downside.

    Super welcomed change.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
    Roads ever weaving, soul ever seeking the hunter's mark.

  6. #206
    Owning AoE with old Surv was the shit :,(

  7. #207
    Deleted
    yes everyone. I have yet to meet a hunter who have been liek" yeah no, makeing survival melee was really great" on the other hand I have known multiple hunters from the guild who used to mainly play survival, even when it was not the strongest it was what they wanted. Also made a Friend quit the class

  8. #208
    I miss old survival, but I really like the new survival. I originally thought the old survival would live on via MM talents, but they butchered that completely.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Luko
    Miss the tired old spec all you want, just don't take my melee hunter. It's the most fun I've had in WoW in years. Super fun and compelling rotation, satisfying procs, chaining around like a warrior with no charge CD. I couldn't care less that everyone is so turned off by change, the spec is a blast. AND I got to keep my pet. Seriously not seeing the downside.

    Super welcomed change.
    You and <300 other people lmao.
    http://imgur.com/a/BqdAd
    It's even more telling that MM has more parses than BM, the latter being leaps and bounds easier to play than the former, as it can only mean that most former SV players switched to MM, the spec that actually requires encounter memorization and proper timing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuhnta View Post
    I miss old survival, but I really like the new survival. I originally thought the old survival would live on via MM talents, but they butchered that completely.
    Yes, sadly. Black Arrow is literally a leveling/outdoors spec, as the most you're getting out of it is the pet that taunts your target. Explosive shot is an aoe (really fun to use) skillshot.
    I love 7.1/7.2 MM, I just wish there'd be a 2nd ranger spec, as playing BM 2/3rds of the times your character will be yelling instead of shooting arrows/bullets (Kill Command & Dire Beast, what a dumb fucking decision, I could have understood if only one of them had that animation, i.e. Kill Command, but I can't understand how the devs thought having your character's main animations being him fucking yelling at the sky a good idea. Cobra Shot has a sick animation though.).
    Last edited by ozusteapot; 2017-03-31 at 08:11 AM.

  10. #210
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Old Survival is never coming back. Never ever. To even suggest it is silly - As far as abilities and flavor goes, it has absolutely nothing. It's one single (and very uninteresting) niche it had going for it, was being the designated PvP spec with slightly improved traps. Nothing else. Marksman cannibalized it and it's gonna stay that way, and it's overall a good thing. Like with Demon Hunters, it's better to channel everything into a singular spec than artificially splitting up ideas between to virtually identical ones. Old Survival was an abortion stitched together once hunters stop using melee weapons and it took Blizzard years to finally just bury it. Its place in the game has been tenuous for several expansions now.

    And to those that wanna RP as a Dark Ranger, you're still going the Marksman route. Blizz even threw you a huge bone years ago by making it petless.

    A very important thing in all of this, is that melee Survival has a lot of potential and could eventually blossom into a beautiful thing of its. It's just a shame that it plays like garbage and feels steeped in vanilla gameplay design.

    You Survival naysayers also need to be honest with yourselves: You never actually liked old Survival, you just really hate the fact hunters actually have a melee spec now. And to a point, I see where you're coming from because if rogues were given a range spec, I'd probably also be crossed at that too.



    So you really liked melee once, but you hate melee because you play in melee range. Oooookay then.
    What? Survival is very smooth to play once you know what you're doing. With the release of 7.2, I've been keeping up with my guild's BM and MM hunter on every fight.

  12. #212
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by hawtlol View Post
    What? Survival is very smooth to play once you know what you're doing. With the release of 7.2, I've been keeping up with my guild's BM and MM hunter on every fight.
    There's no synergy to be found, nothing flows together well and I found the whole experience about as smooth as a bed made of nails. It's all so disjointed and the visuals are just pure crap.

    What you need to keep in mind is that the numbers don't matter one bit. If you can keep up with the faceroll hunters, good on you, but it doesn't matter. Warlocks are very good number wise for example, but their playstyle is still disjointed crap.

    I *want* Survival 3.0 to succeed, but it plays badly.
    Last edited by mmoca636a60092; 2017-03-31 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Grammar

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    I *want* Survival 3.0 to succeed, but it plays badly.
    I'd agree here, while I enjoy Survival on live and want it to succeed, I don't think anyone can claim it plays *smoothly* as the spec is completely disorganised and its myriad of abilities don't flow well at all.

    - You have numerous dot effects with varying durations and cooldowns. Very little alignment here, even SS/WotM don't align. They have different durations and WotM can be applied by 1 spell, while SS can be applied by 2 spells.
    - Despite the numerous dot effects, your forced to lose uptimes because of the mongoose priority. This goes against everything you've learnt from dot specs.
    - The traps, even with mouse targeting macros, are unwieldy to use especially in a melee spec that is very spammy.
    - Focus is almost irrelevant, despite being your resource. Traps+mongoose don't use it, your regularly capped during mongoose spam.

    So while I really enjoy playing it, for any content, I would definitely agree it doesn't play smoothly at all.
    They could improve it greatly by merging some skills, aligning dot durations, reducing mongoose frequency but upping the damage so there is suitable windows to apply and maintain dots properly.
    Rotational traps could be changed, such as caltrops being a PBAOE(think frost nova if you don't know what a PBAOE is) instead of ground targeted and Dragonsfire grenade actually replacing explosive trap in the rotation with explosive being a CC(knockback) trap instead for example.

    They will definitely revise Survival, its got the basics but its definitely a little rough around the edges. I'd love to see a post similar to Rogues blue post about the direction for Survival.

    Inb4 FpicEail shitpost about TBC Survival.

  14. #214
    I do not miss old survival. I miss old beastmastery.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Old Survival is never coming back. Never ever. To even suggest it is silly - As far as abilities and flavor goes, it has absolutely nothing. It's one single (and very uninteresting) niche it had going for it, was being the designated PvP spec with slightly improved traps. Nothing else.
    Never mind the utilitarian, fast-paced, DoT-focused, mobile ranged weapon user style; apparently it only had fucking Trap Mastery and Marksman being a standstill caster-lite was just so much more interesting that we had to throw away the spec we actually liked in order for the games thirteenth physical melee DPS build.

    You know what's uninteresting? A melee DPS that would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from the billion other two-handed melee DPS in the game if it weren't for the pet which has virtually no interaction with the spec. That's the spec that has no flavour, not the old Survival which was unique (and popular) among ranged specs and not condemned to niche exclusivity for eternity like this current abomination of a spec.


    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Marksman cannibalized it and it's gonna stay that way, and it's overall a good thing.
    Survival going from being one of the game's most popular DPS specs to DEAD LAST is a good thing? You have an interesting (read: moronic) set of priorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Like with Demon Hunters, it's better to channel everything into a singular spec than artificially splitting up ideas between to virtually identical ones.
    On the contrary: forcing two distinct playstyles and themes into one spec results in two watered-down, competing aspects of a spec rather than one cohesive and functional spec. This is why we have Feral and Guardian now rather than just Feral. This is why Blood cannot DPS and Frost and Unholy cannot tank. The class developers of Cata and MoP understood this and that's why they went in that direction. Too bad class design is directed by hopeless amateurs now. Good thing they have the unfaltering devotion of tryhards like you to defend them, though.

    If Survival was identical to Marksmanship, why did players opt to pick Survival over Marksmanship even in situations where Marksmanship was notably (but not significantly) ahead? This was the case throughout Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry. If the playstyles were identical, people would have had no problems switching to Marksman for a non-negligible DPS increase. It's almost like you, and all the other drones who make this claim, are full of shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Old Survival was an abortion stitched together once hunters stop using melee weapons and it took Blizzard years to finally just bury it. Its place in the game has been tenuous for several expansions now.
    Nice revisionist history.

    Survival was in an excellent position for most of Cata and all of MoP, while being solid in early Cata, post-3.1 WotLK, and T17 in WoD. Since they doubled down on Survival's ranged utilitarian theme and playstyle in 3.0, Survival has been doing very well and was looking better and better until WoD's release brought it down a few notches and 6.2 utterly shat all over it (ironically this was more than likely done to empty out the spec on purpose so that there would be no one left to protest its impending change to melee). 3.0 released in October 2008. That's almost 7 years of Survival being one of the more popular specs in the game, and for much of that time, particularly in MoP, it was THE defining hunter spec. It took direct Blizzard intervention with a new, inexperienced, and massively overconfident development team combined with the utter fallacy of "class fantasy" to screw it up.

    Face it. Melee survival can NEVER hope to have as strong a position as ranged Survival had, nor can it hope to be as well regarded and respected by its own class than ranged Survival ever was. It's a sad and pathetic shadow of its former self, and it's funny how you delude yourself into considering Survival to have had a "tenuous position for several expansions" as it was comfortably in the top 5 most played DPS specs, and considering it to have been replaced for the better when Blizzard now has to bribe players with dominant damage output and low gear/legendary dependence to even take a second look at the god damned thing. Common sense would dictate that you have those completely backwards, so clearly you have none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    And to those that wanna RP as a Dark Ranger, you're still going the Marksman route. Blizz even threw you a huge bone years ago by making it petless.
    And to those who want to RP as a melee with a pet: you can fuck off to Unholy Death Knight. Oh, it's not the same? Gee: guess what I have to say about Marksman and Survival!

    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    A very important thing in all of this, is that melee Survival has a lot of potential and could eventually blossom into a beautiful thing of its. It's just a shame that it plays like garbage and feels steeped in vanilla gameplay design.
    It's both funny and sad how whenever SV hunters are desperately trying to trick people into playing their wasteland of a spec they insist that it's the most fun spec the game's ever had, but whenever they feel the need to deflect criticism of SV's crushing unpopularity they claim that it plays like crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    You Survival naysayers also need to be honest with yourselves: You never actually liked old Survival, you just really hate the fact hunters actually have a melee spec now. And to a point, I see where you're coming from because if rogues were given a range spec, I'd probably also be crossed at that too.
    Lol? Who the fuck are you to be making that conclusion? Considering that Survival at it's popularity peak (December 2014-January 2015 post-hotfix) was many multitudes more popular than Survival now, probability dictates that most hunters who are still playing from at least that time at least mained Survival at some point. Fuck, I played Survival pretty much constantly post-Cata until Blizzard forced us all out of the spec in 6.2 but I guess your revisionism somehow overrides that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luko View Post
    Miss the tired old spec all you want, just don't take my melee hunter. It's the most fun I've had in WoW in years. Super fun and compelling rotation, satisfying procs, chaining around like a warrior with no charge CD. I couldn't care less that everyone is so turned off by change, the spec is a blast. AND I got to keep my pet. Seriously not seeing the downside.

    Super welcomed change.
    Why should you be awarded guarantees for your spec's continued existence that weren't given to us pre-Legion? After all, there were provably several times more SV hunters before 6.2 than the population of Survival now.

    You claim that it's the most fun spec. That's subjective, but it also conflicts pretty heavily with @Octagonecologyst when he says that Survival plays like garbage, so I expect you two to discuss that here and decide which one of you is right.

    You do not see the downside because you are being selfish. You seem to be fully aware that people don't like the change since you say "everyone is so turned off by the change" (which, by the way, conflicts with your statement that it's a "Super welcomed change"), yet you act like the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many here because you personally enjoy it. That's as selfish as one gets.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    yes everyone. I have yet to meet a hunter who have been liek" yeah no, makeing survival melee was really great" on the other hand I have known multiple hunters from the guild who used to mainly play survival, even when it was not the strongest it was what they wanted. Also made a Friend quit the class
    To be fair, there are indeed hunter mains that legitimately enjoy the spec. I'm sure there are also hunters who truly liked having a deadzone back in BC times, but those people are a clear minority. Same principle applies. Also, it seems to me that at least a significant percentage of the people on the forums defending Survival either play Hunters extremely casually or as an alt. For example, @Octagonecologyst mains a Rogue yet here he is acting as an authority on Hunter design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    Inb4 FpicEail shitpost about TBC Survival.
    Why would I care about TBC Survival? It was, quite frankly, a rubbish spec then. It did nothing but spam steady shot like literally every hunter build back then and most of its worth came from buffing other people in the raid. As far as I'm concerned, Survival only got started in 3.0. It's not relevant at all considering we have Survival 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 to look at. When I'm looking at Survival 4.0 and 5.0 being highly successful, Survival 6.0 being successful until directly tampered with in obviously detrimental ways, and Survival 7.0 being a blatant failure, why would I be interested in looking back to Survival 2.0?

  16. #216
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    I miss it, was my beloved spec... same with combat spec, coz pirate spec is kinda strange to me.

  17. #217
    Deleted
    Good thing people have started to ignore the designated MMO-Champion sperg.

    Surprised someone who just keeps insulting everyone is still around.

    EDIT: Oh, an actual ignore feature. Even better.
    Last edited by mmoca636a60092; 2017-03-31 at 03:36 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Octagonecologyst View Post
    Good thing people have started to ignore the designated MMO-Champion sperg.

    Surprised someone who just keeps insulting everyone is still around.

    EDIT: Oh, an actual ignore feature. Even better.
    Tough guy doesn't even last more than one post before having a tantrum and giving up. Colour me surprised.

  19. #219
    I really miss old SV (and all of WoW now that I'm unsubbed). I'd like to thank FpicEail, and others on the Blizz forums for continuing to fight for old SV. I've run out of steam. I want to play the game, I want to give Blizz my money. But I can't pay for crap.

    Once again, I'd love to see the official numbers from Blizz on subs, and a breakdown by class and spec. Even better would a comparison of current numbers to WoD (Pre-6.2)

    /salute FpicEail

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Bheleu View Post
    I really miss old SV (and all of WoW now that I'm unsubbed). I'd like to thank FpicEail, and others on the Blizz forums for continuing to fight for old SV. I've run out of steam. I want to play the game, I want to give Blizz my money. But I can't pay for crap.

    Once again, I'd love to see the official numbers from Blizz on subs, and a breakdown by class and spec. Even better would a comparison of current numbers to WoD (Pre-6.2)

    /salute FpicEail
    Personally as much as I do miss the game, I didn't even give legion a chance due to losing my spec of over 8 years, (screw blizzard to do that to the players that enjoyed SV, I can live with tweeks and changes over the years but outright taking it away, which is what they really did nah they don't deserve a chance) but it did make it easy to walk away from the game and brake the addiction per-say, offtopic is still the main reason I hang around here and peek in on the hunter forums now and again.

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