Blue post regarding rogues class fantasy and future potential changes.

[Fenderxx]

The way 7.2 came out.. I thought Rogues were not going to be touched. It is very cool to hear they have some plans for all 3 specs for 7.2.5 which I assume will also be the opening of ToS. I would not expect them to totally redesign the specs mid expansion.. even changing talents out I did not expect, but I like that they are going that far.. because Rogues honestly need it.

[Xanatu]

It sounds incredibly challenging to weigh RTB towards 1 buff while also having SND in the game. How is this going to be possible? I appreciate the changes to outlaw because I think this'll make the spec more balance-able, but I'm not sure if reducing RTB to a single buff is the way to go. Maybe something more along the line of always 2 buffs, on a fixed CD so you can't reroll?

I think as long as you have the ability to reroll, it's going to be extremely hard to incentivize players to both choose RTB over SND and not favor rerolling to better buff combos at the same time.

I don't really see a need for both this version of RTB to exist along with SND. SND should just be removed at this point.

[Darkkz]

I suppose I am part of the minority that does not like nor dislike AP? I mean, it's annoying switching between DP and AP, I'll give you that.

Keep in mind, that so far Blizzard f ed us several times (MA nerf, kingsbane nerf and fix without a buff). Removing the AP and replacing it with something else/dp will 100% result in a DPS decrease because they will not properly address that -40% dmg decrease.

Blizzard, if you read this, take in mind that not properly buffing Assasination after removing AP will transform it from good ST and bad AoE to s**t ST and some sort of to be implemented AoE.

[satimy]

"Were going to remove baseline things, add them back in as mandatory talents and this will make the class feel better"

[Deleted]

It sounds incredibly challenging to weigh RTB towards 1 buff while also having SND in the game.

agreed
And even if SnD was remove, i'm still not sure how the spec will feel (not speaking about numbers) with only one buff without a complete remake of other mecanisms
ps: always 2 buffs should be the way to go.

[Cyanix]

Dont you hate it when Blizzard changes everything in the middle of an expansion ?

I suppose we'd be thankful enough when competitive players will be forced to switch specs (once again !), thus losing all the AP investment.

[Wow]

Dont you hate it when Blizzard changes everything in the middle of an expansion ?

I suppose we'd be thankful enough when competitive players will be forced to switch specs (once again !), thus losing all the AP investment.

Rogue's rarely get changes even in beta's much less mid exp this will be something new. I have no faith in them tune anything right with ap gone.

[Diggsworth]

Whenever I see something like this I get really nervous.
You can almost guarantee when they say that they want to make SnD a more viable option, they have no intention of buffing SnD, instead what they'll do is destroy bones so that you do less damage unless you have a 6-buff(sorry, a yahtzee, pirates love dice poker).

[tawnos42]

I suppose I am part of the minority that does not like nor dislike AP? I mean, it's annoying switching between DP and AP, I'll give you that.

Keep in mind, that so far Blizzard f ed us several times (MA nerf, kingsbane nerf and fix without a buff). Removing the AP and replacing it with something else/dp will 100% result in a DPS decrease because they will not properly address that -40% dmg decrease.

Blizzard, if you read this, take in mind that not properly buffing Assasination after removing AP will transform it from good ST and bad AoE to s**t ST and some sort of to be implemented AoE.

Yah not sure why other people aren't seeing this as well. Assassination is going to be a garbage spec when they pull out AP since they will inevitably not adequately account for its removal for single target damage. If it weren't for legendaries I wouldn't care too much since I could just switch to sub for single target but I guess Legion's 'spec identity' is to be locked into one spec to be at the mercy of the whims of blizzard.

[Juggsa]

outlaw's skillcap (however low it might be) is way higher than combat's ever was

also ive been playing since vanilla release, but nice try

Well i agree. Combat was always simple and I liked that in a way. But I wasn't talking about skill caps, I was talking about what was fun to play. I'm not a fan of the new rotations and effects, animations. I thought I would be but I'm not. Hell even wotlk combat, ruptureless rotation was fun.

[Souflikar]

Were fucked, theres 0 chance Agonizing Poison is being removed and we won't end up loosing a shitom of DPS in the process. And why the fck would anyone do something this big mid expansion, and specialy on this expansion which makes it impossibel for us to change spec if they completly break our prefered spec.

Spell check much?

Infracted

[Deleted]

AP is a bad talent maybe if it combined dp and a nerfed version of ap i wouldnt mind but poison switching is the worst thing and you cant switch poisons to kill adds in boss encounters. Also i feel that Assassination mastery is just bad. it gives only bonus to poison damage when 20-30% of our dmg is bleeds and also expect people to switch to bleed spec making mastery pure crap. and all secondary attributes are just bad as it is. Imagine nerfing AP buffing exsang forcing players to switch to exsang. Now you also need to lose all that mastery gear! I mean isn't our best spec just f***ed up? Not even worth mentioning outlaw or sub problems. Also 7.2 just nerfed both bis legendaries boots got nerfed with vendetta giving 60+60 energy and shoulders got nerfed with subterfuge. Wrists got gutted 7.1.5 so again im not sure what is blizzard trying to do. I'm happy i geared up a fury warrior spec has 0 problems atm and its so fun to play. Even frost dks once most boring spec are now more fun than rogues how was this accomplished?

[shaunika123]

Well i agree. Combat was always simple and I liked that in a way. But I wasn't talking about skill caps, I was talking about what was fun to play. I'm not a fan of the new rotations and effects, animations. I thought I would be but I'm not. Hell even wotlk combat, ruptureless rotation was fun.

again... fun is subjective

i like how dynamic stuff happens in a fight and i dont just mindlessly mash my face into sinister evis

plus i actually like how outlaw has an identity compared to combat being the "spec that doesnt use daggers, but sometimes it does" spec

[kyriacosvlachos]

again... fun is subjective

i like how dynamic stuff happens in a fight and i dont just mindlessly mash my face into sinister evis

plus i actually like how outlaw has an identity compared to combat being the "spec that doesnt use daggers, but sometimes it does" spec

I agree, the constantly changing playstyle from RtB is what makes Outlaw so fun. I really really don't want to use slice n dice.

[DakonBlackblade]

I agree, the constantly changing playstyle from RtB is what makes Outlaw so fun. I really really don't want to use slice n dice.

What constantly changing playstyle ? You roll 100 thousand times till the right buff comes, anything else you don't use cause its not the rigth buff.

[hablix]

I never liked Agonizing Poison at all either. Glad to see Blizzard agrees.

[Tay098]

I was always a fan of Subtlety of old. Stealth Buffs and burst damage. I left the game when MoP came out so i missed that and WoD. When I came back for Legion I have not been a fan of Subtlety. So Ive been playing Assassination of course like everyone else.

Assassination: I agree that AP is super boring and contributes much to the Mastery>all itemization which isnt fun either. So I am looking forward to see what they do about it. I feel like our mastery is going to be a problem for the idea of having a decent "poison vs bleed" spec choices.

Subtlety: I know some people like having lots of buttons to push, but it almost felt like we were solely focused on pushing buttons that affected ourselves and not our enemies. Keeping up with the Finality bug for max CP, SoD, and keeping up with SD timers and charges was just not too much fun. I dont know that having so much resource generation being tied up on RNG is a good thing either. Maybe I didnt raid as Sub enough to really get it down, but it was just so much easier to go Assassination. I really hope they do some great work on Sub, as I would love an excuse to switch to it.

[TheGoatRiot]

While I'm happy rogue remains on blizzard's radar, if they make such sweeping changes mid expansion, they 100% need to include a full artifact point refund as well as some sort of way to either trade in a legendary for a specific one (prolly op) or trade in and get a token that gives you a random legendary of whatever loot spec you want.

Because as it stands, gutting a spec without giving a way to swap to something else is just going to cause subscribers to quit when legion already makes offspecs, let alone alting, so difficult with legendaries and AP.

Honestly, you should already get a legendary drop for ALL your offspecs when your main gets one. Giving some way to respec an artifact and get a refund (either something very expensive or on a long cooldown) would be even better. As it is, the current implementation is very punishing for paradigm shifts and just being able to play all of your specs at a decent level without nolifing it in wow.

[Powell]

If they remove Nightblade, they should make Shadow Blades a combo point consumer instead.
It fits the theme better than a dot.

Your abilities deal increased shadow damage. Your next X abilities are empowered with Shadow, number of abilities increased per CP consumed.
Would also make it more interesting for AoE, balancing the use of Shadow Blades and Evischerates with their proposed change, instead of just SS -> Evisc.

[testing123]

I don't really see a need for both this version of RTB to exist along with SND. SND should just be removed at this point.

finally we can agree on this. if they reduce rtb to a single buff or even 2 balanced buffs that dont need to be constantly re-rolled, there
will be no need for slice and dice.


and... i'd like poisons back for all 3 specs, but that's just me