How is ToS looking in terms of melee vs ranged mechanics?

[Beingbob]

People have been debating how ranged have way more mechanics to deal with in the Nighthold than melee a lot, and as a melee I agree and I don't think it's that fun. Not only are there many ranged only mechanics like mark of frost, call of night or orb of destruction, most guilds are also better served to have melee tunnel the boss while the adds are mostly left to ranged (e.g. bloods on Tich, lashers of Botanist and fel elementals that spawn away from boss on Krosus).

How is ToS looking in this regard? I hope it won't be repeat.

[Toogoodman]

Unfortunately thats just been a trend with Blizz for the entire lifespan of the game. Its more difficult to stuff mechanics into melee, and even a lot of mechanics that are consider "melee mechanics" tend be better served by ranged dps just doing it in place of melee.

I doubt we will see this trend change, but in terms of having a better balanced roster for fights, we will probably see ranged being more viable to bring to raid. A lot of fights in NH require and insane amount of melee, our pre Star Augur mythic kill, which we got before the big health nerf a few weeks ago, we had 3 rogues, 2 fury warriors, 2 demon hunters, and a deathknight. Thats way more melee for "first kills" than ive ever been used to in this game. DPS classes have almost always been a "stack as much ranged as possible" since TBC.

Also, if you look at Guldan kills, most guilds only brought 3 ranged DPS.

Lets see how theyll treat ranged DPS as a whole in 7.2.5

[netherflame]

The problem is why bring ranged when your melee classes for the most part are able to do 100-150k more dps, with bigger openers, then a ranged class. Even On my best pulls as Elemental I'm only hitting 2m while our melee is all sitting near 3m.....Then I trail off to the 750k ish range, while they fall down to 850k mfor the most part until mechanics start when I fall down another 50k while they hold firm at 850k.

[Yunyuns]

The problem is that you can design mechanics for range and they'll continue to deal damage while handling the mechanics, even if it's less damage.

For melees, at the moment you assign them to a mechanic they'll deal almost 0 dps for the few seconds needed to move to the mechanic.

That's a huge problem in fight designs and there's no perfect solution.

[Kayzza]

The problem is why bring ranged when your melee classes for the most part are able to do 100-150k more dps, with bigger openers, then a ranged class. Even On my best pulls as Elemental I'm only hitting 2m while our melee is all sitting near 3m.....Then I trail off to the 750k ish range, while they fall down to 850k mfor the most part until mechanics start when I fall down another 50k while they hold firm at 850k.

The problem is , we've had melee sitting out for several expacs. Now its the other way around and you ranged start crying like babies. You're still being brought and you're still needed. What's the problem? Oh you're getting outdps'd by melee for once, cry me a river.

[Saybel]

The problem is that you can design mechanics for range and they'll continue to deal damage while handling the mechanics, even if it's less damage.

For melees, at the moment you assign them to a mechanic they'll deal almost 0 dps for the few seconds needed to move to the mechanic.

That's a huge problem in fight designs and there's no perfect solution.

Dance on will of the emperors is a good mechanic, lose DPS but gain it back when you finish doing the mechanics.

[ingsve]

The problem is that you can design mechanics for range and they'll continue to deal damage while handling the mechanics, even if it's less damage.

For melees, at the moment you assign them to a mechanic they'll deal almost 0 dps for the few seconds needed to move to the mechanic.

That's a huge problem in fight designs and there's no perfect solution.

I don't really see a problem with that. If you have melee mechanics that have them do 0 dps now and then it really doesn't matter in the end since the relevant part is how much damage they did overall on the boss and not how that damage was distributed throughout the fight.

I don't see a problem with having some bosses that do some type of hellfire type AOE for example. I haven't raided much since TBC before legion and I remember some fights with melee unfriendly from back then at least like Void Reavers pounding, Rage Winterchills Death and Decay, Prince Malchezzars enfeeble and AOE etc. I'm sure there have been more since then as well.

[Leih]

I don't really see a problem with that. If you have melee mechanics that have them do 0 dps now and then it really doesn't matter in the end since the relevant part is how much damage they did overall on the boss and not how that damage was distributed throughout the fight.

I don't see a problem with having some bosses that do some type of hellfire type AOE for example. I haven't raided much since TBC before legion and I remember some fights with melee unfriendly from back then at least like Void Reavers pounding, Rage Winterchills Death and Decay, Prince Malchezzars enfeeble and AOE etc. I'm sure there have been more since then as well.

Yeah, but it's far from simple. You end up with either:

1) Melee does more overall damage than Ranged, so that when you subtract the time they spend doing 0 damage, it maths out about equal. Problem with this is that EVERY fight must have a period of time melee can't dps, or else you stack nothing but melee.

2) Ranged and Melee do the same amount of average damage, which means why bring any melee to the fights where they have periods of 0 damage? Unless EVERY fight has equal amounts of times when ranged and melee can't DPS, might as well stack ranged.

It's a bit of a balancing act, putting a lot of constraints on the encounter designers. In practice, it usually means they have to do things to "force" you to require X amount of melee or X amount of ranged like putting in mechanics you have to soak, abilities that ONLY target people with a melee spec or else will kill the tank, or mobs immune to certain types of damage and things like that.

[slickwilly]

Play melee if you brain dead tunnel the boss and look at your 12 inch e peen. Go range if you want a challenge and actually be able to kill the boss.

[Beingbob]

I agree with everyone that's it's an inherent problem in MMOs, but does anyone actually know from testing or seeing others test what will be the case for Tomb of Sargeras?

[Soulfròst]

Play melee if you brain dead tunnel the boss and look at your 12 inch e peen. Go range if you want a challenge and actually be able to kill the boss.

I play a melee but I could easily switch to my Mage and do just fine. I just can't stand the annoyance of having to interrupt casts, sometimes several times in succession. It's a huge trigger for me, can't do it. So I play melee instead.

[Vultana]

I play a melee but I could easily switch to my Mage and do just fine. I just can't stand the annoyance of having to interrupt casts, sometimes several times in succession. It's a huge trigger for me, can't do it. So I play melee instead.

Ummm.... as a Melee I can tell you that you are expected to perform interrupts. I do it all the time (Blast, Ablative, Felburst if you get one near you) so I don't know where you get this idea from.

I look forward to interrupts because they give me free Fury.

[Jacki Treehorn]

Ummm.... as a Melee I can tell you that you are expected to perform interrupts. I do it all the time (Blast, Ablative, Felburst if you get one near you) so I don't know where you get this idea from.

I look forward to interrupts because they give me free Fury.

Pretty sure the point was they dislikes casters because they have to interrupt their casts to move and deal with mechanics while melee do not have cast times and can dps while moving.

[Gib Lover]

Play melee if you brain dead tunnel the boss and look at your 12 inch e peen. Go range if you want a challenge and actually be able to kill the boss.

Gee, no bias here.

[barackohmama]

Play melee if you brain dead tunnel the boss and look at your 12 inch e peen. Go range if you want a challenge and actually be able to kill the boss.

brain dead melee won't last long especially not in mythic. And whats the challenge with ranged dps? they can dps without moving when boss/adds jumps around. In return they have to move for certain mechanics and interrupt their casts. Seems like a fair trade off if you ask me.

[meroko]

I like less melee mechanics, cause I'm classified as a melee healer this expansion (Holy Paladin) and it means I have to do less mechanics and focus more on healing

[Chuckadoodle]

Dance on will of the emperors is a good mechanic, lose DPS but gain it back when you finish doing the mechanics.

^^ This, can design a melee mechanic around executing precise movements, execute them correctly and get a DPS buff.

[hulkgor]

brain dead melee won't last long especially not in mythic. And whats the challenge with ranged dps? they can dps without moving when boss/adds jumps around. In return they have to move for certain mechanics and interrupt their casts. Seems like a fair trade off if you ask me.

Are you serious? Do you realize the sheer amount of Nighthold Mythic fights where Melees just tunnel vision boss without regard for any mechanic, whilst rangeds have constant deadly\essential mechanics they need to perform?

Brands on tichondrius. Marks of frost on aluriel. volatile orbs on krosus. call of the night on botanist. etc etc etc. Melees deal with some mechanics which ALSO affect rangeds, yet rangeds deal with essential mechanics whilst melees just tunnel vision boss. There isn't any melee-only mechanic they have to deal with on nighthold, maybe even the entire expansion.

it's absurd at this point.

Melees are tuned to deal higher damage due to mechanics affecting their ability to dps, whilst rangeds can still dish out some dps, yet if they don't implement said mechanics, the damage is absolutely overtuned in turn... which is the case for most of this expansion, bar 1 or 2 fights in the total of 20 we got so far.

[Zanzha]

Ummm.... as a Melee I can tell you that you are expected to perform interrupts. I do it all the time (Blast, Ablative, Felburst if you get one near you) so I don't know where you get this idea from.

I look forward to interrupts because they give me free Fury.

He means interrupting his own casts for movement etc.