Was Hitler after total world domination, or did he just want to control Europe?

[Deleted]

He was the ultimate example of how stupid it is to count individual people automatically as part of "group x,y" removing the individuality and just seeing them as "group". There is nothing more stupid to be "proud to be <enter nation>" and its completely artificial only meant to exclude and isolate.

Example: What makes a German German? Any why would anyone want to be defined by "German"? This roots in old tribe and family hierarchies which have zero meaning in a civilized world as ours.

[Mizix]

The original war plan was for the third reich to control the people of western europe, which were considered aryan (thats the reason Hitler was so interested in a pact with England prior to WWII, one of the reasons he made Ribbentrop his foreign minister), and to create new "Lebensraum" in eastern europe after getting rid of the slavic people.

Small correction: they were not considered to be Aryans, particularly the Brits with their in-breeding with migrants from their colonies, but were seen as a superior race compared to Slavic people, although still an inferior race compared to pure Aryans.

[Pannonian]

He was the ultimate example of how stupid it is to count individual people automatically as part of "group x,y" removing the individuality and just seeing them as "group". There is nothing more stupid to be "proud to be <enter nation>" and its completely artificial only meant to exclude and isolate.

Example: What makes a German German? Any why would anyone want to be defined by "German"? This roots in old tribe and family hierarchies which have zero meaning in a civilized world as ours.

What makes a german german? cannot help but link this:

[Puupi]

WWII Germans had a plan to desiccate Mediterranean. This should tell you about their arrogance and superiority complex. The failed 3rd (4th? whichever it is) Reich was supposed to be an expansive empire. They'd go as far as they could. Considering the above arrogance, I'd doubt if they didn't have "world domination" in mind.

It's a grand and a bit unrealistic plan for the time being, but it's not impossible. Kiel, Suez and Panama canals are quite huge projects in the same kind of category.

[Deleted]

Don't half-ass your education and only watch Indiana Jones.

[squirecam]

In WWII era, having nukes and being able to drop them are 2 completely different things.

If Hitler had been successful and control all of Europe, that means the US wouldn't have had the British Isles as a place to refuel planes, set up carriers etc. The nukes on Japan only happened after the Japanese airforce had already been (mostly) defeated. So, with subs out in the Atlantic to sink carriers, I don't think the US would've been able to nuke Germany like they did Japan. At least not without the help of any resistance forces in Europe.

Scary thoughts here though...

Hitler had no chance of conquering the UK.

See 1940.

[Felya]

It was world... we know he didn't think Mussolini was all that bright and if Japan thought a pact with Germany meant anything... they should have looked at Russia. The goal was the world, regardless if he divided it for his allies.

Basically, Hitler knew the mistakes his predecessors have made. You stretch too thin and you will fail. He needed years to regroup, if he were successful and then branch out. The thing he didn't realize is that he was under the same bias, as his predecessors. When he thought it was time to move into Russia, just like the others, his hubris got him. If he left Russia alone for 6-8 month... those of us that would still be around, would be speaking German/Japanese/Italian.

On a side note... for fans of A Clock Work Orange... the last point is why the bar was Moloko Bar, not a Milk Bar. It's not explicitly stated, but in that book, Russia won the Cold War or at least an undisclosed cultural war. That's why so much Russian, as slang.

[Berengil]

Europe+Middle East+North Africa would have been the natural frontiers of a Nazi empire. Full autarky and plenty of Lebensraum.

Man in the High Castle is comic book fantasy. An invasion of North America is (even back in the 1940s) a Herculean effort. Why not enjoy what you've got if they took all of the above would be the attitude I think. And if Hitler started talking up an attempt to take the US? lead injection to the cranium and his designated successor and new Reichsfuhrer Georing takes over.

Science continues on its way, and the US is still likely to be the first to develop the Abomb (because of Einstein's letter), declaring they will use it to uphold the Monroe Doctrine against fascist meddling in the Americas. Eventually Germany and Japan get it too, and voila! 3-way Cold War.

This all assumes a US that never embargoes Japan due to a stronger neutrality/isolationist movement in the US. Japan never attacks the US over it, adopts a "Go North" strategy, and the USSR gets hit from both ends. UK is half starved by the time the USSR falls, and Churchill's government is turned out in favor of a Labor government that sues for peace.

[Hiricine]

Hitler basically was going to keep conquering as much as he could until he didn't think he could win. I doubt at any point along the line he had world domination in mind, though he may have gotten there eventually.

[Sliske]

Power hungry people don't stop when they get X power. They always want more.

[YourHeroVir]

If Hitler actually "won" how long would it have lasted? And how long before the rest of the world beat him back?

I don't think such an evil dictator like him would have lasted long even if he seized control of all of Europe.

I'd say maaaaybe 5-10 years max before he was taken down.

It depends how you define if Hitler "Won". Assuming he stops before the invasion of Poland the rest of the world likely leaves him be. It's not like other world leaders went after the Axis powers just because they were "Evil", it had more to do with self defense.

The longest I could see Hitler living in any scenario is probably until 1955ish, he started taking Amphetamines in the late 30's, I doubt he lives much past 65 and that's if nobody bothered Germany AND no domestic rivals kill him, and he doesn't kill himself with the drugs he was taking.

[Sliske]

Hitler basically was going to keep conquering as much as he could until he didn't think he could win. I doubt at any point along the line he had world domination in mind, though he may have gotten there eventually.

The Axis of Evil for sure was looking world domination, Japan and Germany were probably going to cut up Russia between them after the war, with Europe dominated and Africa easily dominated all that would remain is USA and Australia

[Sentynel]

I wonder who would have been next.

Blacks, then Arabs, then Asians probably.

[Glorious Leader]

If you guys like the alternate history of man in the high castle you should check out a book callled the iron dream by norman spinrad. Its an alternate history where hitler abandons tl germany heads to the US and writes science fiction novels.

[Deleted]

He saw Russia as a threat, and Russia is only partly in Europe.

That particular view wasn't exactly wrong.

[YourHeroVir]

What makes a German German? Any why would anyone want to be defined by "German"? This roots in old tribe and family hierarchies which have zero meaning in a civilized world as ours.

If another group or "Tribe" views you as a German and they want all Germans exterminated.....then you're in big trouble if your group doesn't believe in collective defense.

[Sunseeker]

Madmen and tyrants rarely know where to stop. That's why they're madmen and tyrants and not ya know, well-regarded world leaders. It's quite possible that if the Nazi's hadn't started WWII their annexation of the Sudetenland would have gone unopposed. It's equally possible that if they hadn't turned on Russia mid-war and opened up a second front they might very well have kept their hold on Europe. But tyrants have a nasty habit of wanting more and in that line the Nazi's overplayed their hand and lost.

[Arachnofiend]

All hitler really wanted was that people liked his paintings.

Hitler was a god awful painter, though. All he could do was landscapes and he did that very poorly.

[Deleted]

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years.

If Hitler actually "won" how long would it have lasted? And how long before the rest of the world beat him back?

I don't think such an evil dictator like him would have lasted long even if he seized control of all of Europe.

I'd say maaaaybe 5-10 years max before he was taken down.

Do you know how many people suffered in Stalin's USSR? Millions. And in his time USSR also grew by annexing countries. Do you know how much he lasted? Until someone beat him back? Until people pushed him down? No, until he died at 74, after leading the USSR for almost 30 years. He died of a stroke.

Hitler would have lasted if he won. Through terror. Through fooling the people. Through the benefit he brought to those he deemed superior.

I agree.

To go along with that, had Hitler taken control of Europe, I find it very hard to believe that he would have had the power to take control of the United States like the "Man in the High Castle" show on Amazon, given the fact that we had nuclear weapons and he didn't. I know he was close to having nuclear weapons, but being able to fly them across the atlantic and bomb strategic areas in the United States would have been almost impossible for him.

So if he controlled Europe, I don't think the United States would have allowed that for too long, along with Russia and our other allies.

Well, let's see.
Nuclear weapons. Did you know that while the USA developed the atomic bomb before everyone else, they used said atomic bomb like throwing a sack of potatoes from a plane? Yes, the atomic bombs dropped on Japan were dropped like random rocks falling from planes.
You did say that Germany, in your scenario, conquered Europe. Where do the planes with the atomic bombs come from then? Back then they couldn't fly all over the Atlantic, drop a bomb then return. Not to even speak of anti-aircraft guns and the fact that said bomber would need to fly over huge tracts of land to reach Berlin or most german actual cities actually.

Did any other power get to control at least a large portion of Europe at any time? Yes, It was called the USSR. Did the USA allow it? Yes, because war with such a big power might have ensured mutual annihilation.

Last, but not least, you say that the USA and their allies would not have left Germany keep Europe. What other allies? Canada, Australia and New Zealand? And... that's about it. Let's be honest now, most of the South American countries weren't super mega helpful in WW2 and I doubt any African colonies of former European countries under German rule would have been so much useful.

The reason why the Allies won WW2 is because Hitler was a retard and the Japanese more than sabotaged everything:
- If Hitler had not attacked USSR, he could have actually won against the UK. The UK was severely weakened at one point.
- If the Japanese had not attacked Pearl Harbour, the USA would not have entered the war.
So, the UK provided great aviation and a place from where to strike at the Axis.
The USSR provided a 2 frontier war which divided the Axis forces too much and manpower.
The USA provided mass vehicle building and people.

Without either of them, the war might not have been won. And in your scenario UK is under German rule or has made peace with them, USSR is partially under German rule and the rest probably fragmented into small weak states... so do you really think USA would have tried to fight Germany with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the hope that partisans help them too? I honestly doubt it. And a Nazi Germany not ruled by Hitler would not have attempted to further fight USA either. They'd have made peace and let them and Japan sort it out to weaken both while they consolidated their power in conquered lands.

Meanwhile in the real world Germany and its allies made mistake after mistake:
Germany went on a 2 frontier war due to Hitler's idiocies.
Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, bringing USA in the war... for nothing. They invaded some pea-sized islands belonging to the USA and that's it. Their involvement is equal to someone poking a bear.
Italy... was terrible. They couldn't invade Ethiopia properly. Then they couldn't invade Greece properly and Germany had to come and help to not have the Allies open a 3rd front.
Heck, compared to these 2 all other smaller Axis allies were more useful as, even if their contributions were somewhat small, they at least didn't keep bringing more problems.

I don't see why he wouldn't have. If he had beat Russia and england, might as well go for the rest. Ww2 is the best example of the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

What good intentions? Hitler? Good intentions? Are we talking of a different Hitler? Since I only know of Adolf Hitler, the madman who wanted world domination and to get rid of the "undesirables".

The type of "world peace" that you speak of would mean the complete genocide of the Jews. Thats not peace to me, thats barbarism.

The original plan was to ship all jews to Madagascar and have them live there under a police state ruled by the SS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
They only went for the final solution after they started feeling they did not have enough resources to win the war and needed less resources spent on the containment camps.
Most likely the original idea was so that there would always be a scapegoat. He'd still have eliminated the handicapped, gays and possibly gypsies though.

Probably would have extended beyond just Jews too. Africans, and Chinese probably would have been exterminated as well. Quite possibly anyone who wasn't European. Although I would imagine the Japanese might be safe seeing as they were allies. Nazi Germany may have just let them be on their own little island. Of course they very well could have turned against them after everything else was conquered. Who knows?

Eventually both would have turned on the other, because both believed the other to be inferior.

Hitler had no chance of conquering the UK.

See 1940.

Directly, in 1940? No. But he did manage to almost create a blockade. And it hurt the UK economically a great deal. Eventually they would have gained the upper hand. But they decided to turn to USSR instead of waiting. Because Hitler was impatient and fully blocking and destroying the UK economy would have taken years.

[Puupi]

Hitler was a god awful painter, though. All he could do was landscapes and he did that very poorly.

Still, he should have been admitted to the art school. A whole lot of big mess could have been avoided.