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  1. #1

    Is Legion the best effort Blizzard ever made, or can make?

    After warlods of great youtube videos but shitty gameplay and pandaland group hug adventures skip to Ally vs Horde part thx expansions, the dev team had a lot two live up to.

    One, getting back in touch with what the majority of players wanted, and not some whimsical impression of what players wanted based on some random joke back in Warcraft 3.

    Two, being able to deliver on their promise when they said they understood what players wanted without trying to rehash Warcraft 2 into an MMO, badly.

    So what's the result of those 2 lessons? Legion.

    You essentially slap Illidan on the box, rename daily quests to world quests and spread them daily around the new expansion zone, turn a 60-100 new levels leveling experience into a 10 level experience and an "artifact" grind and voila, Legion.

    From the onset, people were dazzled by it. So many things to do! Apparently. Really? Well, the same old things to do, but with different names! And more out in the world, so yay, no more sitting in cities chaining dungeons and raids as much!

    PVP is in a midlife crisis right now, but that's ok, it's been that way ever since Arenas were implemented and world PVP became synonymous with "this doesn't give you epics so don't think about it".

    Dungeons and raids are the same old shit, except now dungeons also have a bunch of new difficulty modes since "things to do!"

    So what's there left for the future? Multiverse quests? Chaotic difficulty dungeons? PVP actually seems to be taking the total fun route with brawls this patch, so I'm seeing some attempt at something fresher there, although it was copied from HOTS so le sigh, meh, at least they tried.

    What could blizzard actually do for the future of WoW to go higher from here, aside to remake the game from the ground up with a sequel? Personally, I think Legion is a good and wholehearted effort, as an improvement over all the mistakes of the last 2 expansions. Even patch 7.2, once it fully kicks in, it'll be dope.

    But that's all I see Legion as, an effort of correction of mistakes which should never have been made. Once past the 2 month mark though, the usual desire to unsub till the next patch kicks in ever harder every expansion. And buying the game itself, which essentially costs base cost + half the price of a new game for 2 months, becomes a questionable decision. If it's for the lore, there's so little new these days that you might as well read it of WowWikki and be done with it.

  2. #2
    I hope not. If they could mix the systems of Mists and Wrath and sprinkle some Legion in with a dash of BC, that would be pretty good.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Jesus christ , you people will never be satisfied with nothing. All you talk is about nostalgia but if you compare what you did in BC or vanilla you will see that you can get bored quickly. With legion you can do a ton of stuff and still you are not satisfied. Pandaria was a really beautiful expansion but people complained because of pandas. How backward people are you? Legion is probably the best expansion in having stuff too too , in story line , area development except PvP.

    WoW can still change a ton but it's engine can be a limiting factor. Stop asking a thousand things all the time. Others say the game is to easy , others is too hard , jesus you people are hypocrites.

  4. #4
    Its really funny how one of the darkest story arcs in WoW get handwaved by some.
    Yet the saturday morning cartoon gets praise everywhere.

    "I'll get you next time Gadget!" XD

    I liked Wrath, i just liked MOP more, best story(telling) in WoW so far.

    I fully agree with Calfredd, a good mix of MOP and Wrath with just a sprinkle of Legion and BC would be king of the hill in my book.
    Last edited by Zatachi; 2017-04-01 at 07:50 AM.

  5. #5
    Every new thread you make you make less and less sense. It's obvious you hate everything Blizzard now so what is your aim?
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  6. #6
    Brewmaster TheVaryag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    After warlods of great youtube videos but shitty gameplay and pandaland group hug adventures skip to Ally vs Horde part thx expansions, the dev team had a lot two live up to. One, getting back in touch with what the majority of players wanted, and not some whimsical impression of what players wanted based on some random joke back in Warcraft 3. Two, being able to deliver on their promise when they said they understood what players wanted without trying to rehash Warcraft 2 into an MMO, badly. So what's the result of those 2 lessons? Legion. You essentially slap Illidan on the box, rename daily quests to world quests and spread them daily around the new expansion zone, turn a 60-100 new levels leveling experience into a 10 level experience and an "artifact" grind and voila, Legion. From the onset, people were dazzled by it. So many things to do! Apparently. Really? Well, the same old things to do, but with different names! And more out in the world, so yay, no more sitting in cities chaining dungeons and raids as much! PVP is in a midlife crisis right now, but that's ok, it's been that way ever since Arenas were implemented and world PVP became synonymous with "this doesn't give you epics so don't think about it". Dungeons and raids are the same old shit, except now dungeons also have a bunch of new difficulty modes since "things to do!" So what's there left for the future? Multiverse quests? Chaotic difficulty dungeons? PVP actually seems to be taking the total fun route with brawls this patch, so I'm seeing some attempt at something fresher there, although it was copied from HOTS so le sigh, meh, at least they tried. What could blizzard actually do for the future of WoW to go higher from here, aside to remake the game from the ground up with a sequel? Personally, I think Legion is a good and wholehearted effort, as an improvement over all the mistakes of the last 2 expansions. Even patch 7.2, once it fully kicks in, it'll be dope. But that's all I see Legion as, an effort of correction of mistakes which should never have been made. Once past the 2 month mark though, the usual desire to unsub till the next patch kicks in ever harder every expansion. And buying the game itself, which essentially costs base cost + half the price of a new game for 2 months, becomes a questionable decision. If it's for the lore, there's so little new these days that you might as well read it of WowWikki and be done with it.
    If Legion Is the -best- they could do, I'm afraid for the future of WoW. If the best they can come up with Is "Hey, grind more shiz" for useless Artifact Power rewards, nethershards, doing "World Quests" and spam running speedrunner dungeons Instead of real dungeons then we are fucked.

    I'm playing on a certain unnamed WoW Vanilla Private server, but you know which one, wink nudge - and I happened to loot a chest there during question, and that was In the Barrens of all places. I got dem chest, and It had 2 plans, blacksmithing and tailoring. A bunch of cloths, 1 Iron ore, a green weapon and a ring with like 5 Intellect for lvl 22+ and then you have Legion's chests, which on the broken shore drop a tiny tinsi bit of Artifact Power, like 6 nethershards and maybe 40 supplies for one of the three buildings. Really Legion? The barrens chest Is way more lucrative, I sent the blacksmith plan to a friend who can use It, sold the tailor one along with the ring on the AH. Sent the green weapon to another guildie and used half the cloths for my blacksmithing and the Iron as well.

    While, where will you use those Artifact Power, nethershards and supplies, just for your greedy self? Just the difference In loot from Vanilla to Legion you can see we're not encouraged to do team work, Legion Is HEAVILY solo based, It's a singleplayer game at this point. No encouragement to play In groups and If you happen to find a chest (And they are much smaller In Legion which works well for their worth) It'll give you bugger all and only help -you- not a guild, you won't get anything to sell on the AH, nothing like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    I hope not. If they could mix the systems of Mists and Wrath and sprinkle some Legion in with a dash of BC, that would be pretty good.
    More like mix the systems of TBC and Vanilla and sprinkle some Wrath and tunning, bug fixes and quality of life Improvements from latest expansions, that would be pretty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgex View Post
    Jesus christ , you people will never be satisfied with nothing. All you talk is about nostalgia but if you compare what you did in BC or vanilla you will see that you can get bored quickly. With legion you can do a ton of stuff and still you are not satisfied. Pandaria was a really beautiful expansion but people complained because of pandas. How backward people are you? Legion is probably the best expansion in having stuff too too , in story line , area development except PvP.

    WoW can still change a ton but it's engine can be a limiting factor. Stop asking a thousand things all the time. Others say the game is to easy , others is too hard , jesus you people are hypocrites.
    Have you played, TBC good sir? I'm playing Vanilla WoW right now, and It's hella more enjoyable than Legion Is, more difficult, less forgiving, more encouraging to work together, have a guild, an actual community. So Legion as you claim Is the best we can get.... apart from PvP? So they've failed In doing everything -but- PvP how Is that good enough? You SHOULD strive to wanting more, how else will you keep Blizzard on their toes and keep giving us good things rather then pointless singleplayer grinders like Legion.

    TBC was the best expansion ever, combined with some quality of life Improvements from current retail WoW and some re-Imagening of the old TBC systems, we could've had a great expansion. But you fanboys will be satisfied with anything, no matter what Blizzard gives out. I'd rather remain a healthy skeptic and keep challanging Blizzard to keep Improving, because by god Legion Is not an Improvement In terms of mechanics, things to do and definitely not progression, the Lore Is -okay- although It's been so butchered I'm starting to care less. Imean they broke their OWN PROMISE of not tying ilevel with gear, to not scale those because from a 7.0 Interview they said, Indirect quote: "If we start scaling ilevel to gear we'll break the game and the progression will be ruined, and we know this" and then you realize they did do exactly that In 7.2 and broke the progression, gear means nothing now.

    They keep making promises, and then breaking them willy nilly. Stop listening to them and believing them.
    Permabanned on WoW since April 14th 2015, main acc I had since vanilla gone and trashed for no good reason, 6+ years later still banned with more appeals resulting in my BATTLENET games being suspended for a month eachtime I try making TICKETS because I'm asking for help with the perma ban. Blizzard has stopped caring for their first veteran players and would rather we leave, considering the Lawsuit, can you afford to keep peps banned even for so long under questionable circumstances?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    More like mix the systems of TBC and Vanilla and sprinkle some Wrath and tunning, bug fixes and quality of life Improvements from latest expansions, that would be pretty.
    Mists is what introduced the new warlock specs and I enjoyed those changes (not so much the 15 different iterations of the Cast-while-moving talent) so I wouldn't mind more of that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    TBC was the best expansion ever,
    That's like...you're opinion man.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Deleted
    I liked WotLK most. 3.3.5 that is.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    actually is by far the most brilliant so far , but ofc this just my opinion

  12. #12
    Oh it can get better, if they would finally stop trying to save players from their own stupidity, and they would stop having these pet design choices that they will not change because it's someones baby and they can't understand that it's a failure.

    LFR having jack squat and no flying were those ideas in WoD, both of which only changed with the amount of subs that were lost during the expansion. Legion it seems to be this idea of everything upgrading 40 million ilevels and a crap legendary system they just can't bring themselves to really change.

    These are not new problems, and frankly if you look back at most of the expansions, and even Vanilla, most of the issues with them were due directly to design choices they couldn't let go of because someone had a hard on for it. ( Vanilla example would have been all hybrid specs being junk outside of the healing ones).

  13. #13
    With the Diablo team working on WoW, Legion is the best you're going to get.
    Vanilla WoW was a diamond in the rough. Burning Crusade cleared the rough away and polished that diamond up. During Lich King, that diamond cracked from being over polished and in Cataclysm that diamond was replaced with a cubic zirconia.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    After warlods of great youtube videos but shitty gameplay and pandaland group hug adventures skip to Ally vs Horde part thx expansions, the dev team had a lot two live up to.

    One, getting back in touch with what the majority of players wanted, and not some whimsical impression of what players wanted based on some random joke back in Warcraft 3.

    Two, being able to deliver on their promise when they said they understood what players wanted without trying to rehash Warcraft 2 into an MMO, badly.

    So what's the result of those 2 lessons? Legion.

    You essentially slap Illidan on the box, rename daily quests to world quests and spread them daily around the new expansion zone, turn a 60-100 new levels leveling experience into a 10 level experience and an "artifact" grind and voila, Legion.

    From the onset, people were dazzled by it. So many things to do! Apparently. Really? Well, the same old things to do, but with different names! And more out in the world, so yay, no more sitting in cities chaining dungeons and raids as much!

    PVP is in a midlife crisis right now, but that's ok, it's been that way ever since Arenas were implemented and world PVP became synonymous with "this doesn't give you epics so don't think about it".

    Dungeons and raids are the same old shit, except now dungeons also have a bunch of new difficulty modes since "things to do!"

    So what's there left for the future? Multiverse quests? Chaotic difficulty dungeons? PVP actually seems to be taking the total fun route with brawls this patch, so I'm seeing some attempt at something fresher there, although it was copied from HOTS so le sigh, meh, at least they tried.

    What could blizzard actually do for the future of WoW to go higher from here, aside to remake the game from the ground up with a sequel? Personally, I think Legion is a good and wholehearted effort, as an improvement over all the mistakes of the last 2 expansions. Even patch 7.2, once it fully kicks in, it'll be dope.

    But that's all I see Legion as, an effort of correction of mistakes which should never have been made. Once past the 2 month mark though, the usual desire to unsub till the next patch kicks in ever harder every expansion. And buying the game itself, which essentially costs base cost + half the price of a new game for 2 months, becomes a questionable decision. If it's for the lore, there's so little new these days that you might as well read it of WowWikki and be done with it.
    I hope it's not becuase it's by far the worst expantion then made, in my opinion.
    I think MoP got it right, if it wasn't for the huge content gap at the end.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I hope it's not becuase it's by far the worst expantion then made, in my opinion.
    I think MoP got it right, if it wasn't for the huge content gap at the end.
    Personally thought the stacked daily rep on top of daily rep at the start was worse. But it definitely was a solid expansion.

  16. #16
    They tried. They really did. But ultimately you can't invent an open-world questing MMORPG gameplay system that keeps millions of players engaged for hours a day, every day, every week for years, without the players getting bored.

    We want the impossible. We want to be entertained for hours every time we log in, even if we no-life the game. But no themepark system can satisfy that. Timegating excesses and other irritations notwithstanding, I think Blizzard could not have come up with a better system than the one we have at present.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    They tried. They really did. But ultimately you can't invent an open-world questing MMORPG gameplay system that keeps millions of players engaged for hours a day, every day, every week for years, without the players getting bored.

    We want the impossible. We want to be entertained for hours every time we log in, even if we no-life the game. But no themepark system can satisfy that. Timegating excesses and other irritations notwithstanding, I think Blizzard could not have come up with a better system than the one we have at present.
    That's a huge exaggeration. Blizzard are doing their best, but, unfortunately, the xrealm, LFR and solo leveling systems mean that it will never be an engaging enough game again. They need a drastic system overhaul.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatachi View Post
    Its really funny how one of the darkest story arcs in WoW get handwaved by some.
    Yet the saturday morning cartoon gets praise everywhere.

    "I'll get you next time Gadget!" XD

    I liked Wrath, i just liked MOP more, best story(telling) in WoW so far.

    I fully agree with Calfredd, a good mix of MOP and Wrath with just a sprinkle of Legion and BC would be king of the hill in my book.
    God, this. People only see Pandas and don't see that that xpac was its most subtle and nuanced storytelling effort to date.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimo View Post
    God, this. People only see Pandas and don't see that that xpac was its most subtle and nuanced storytelling effort to date.
    Ah yes, MOP, the "the Horde is bad and you should feel bad for everything you did in Cataclysm" expansion.

    The only good stuff to come out of MOP was the Rise of the Zandalari.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Legion is odd.

    But it seems to fall with yet another "half of it was good, then it kinda crashed with sudden 180 from devs" like cata did.

    At start of the expansion, it felt like one of the best thing I have ever played from WoW.

    Order hall campaings, zones scaling with level (NOT ilvl), zone stories felt intresting and well thought out in grand scale,
    Dungeons feel decently designed to be quick and not huge chores imo apart.. from brh and HoV.
    Treasures, AP talents (not the grind), voice acting that is also skippable, EN was okay start for raiding.
    World quests felt waaay better than dailies ever did.
    I quit doing dailies around ToC because it just felt huge chore and I lost intrest on getting all toys, pets and exalteds etc. Now WQs dont feel bad at all. They still feel more enjoyable despite the rewards have gone down way hard.

    As for someone who played from BC to Cata I'm extremely happy about:
    Devs actually using twitter now, videos, regular QAs, rate of hotfixes (no more few months wait for class balances if that), actual insight from desingers.

    This was literally non-existant before. QAs was done maybe 3 times in expansion via some clunky chat app, WoW youtube was literally just throwaway for patch/expansion trailers, twitter was barely active aside from maintance warnings or hotfix links, class balances were almost exclusive to major patches. So FoTM facerollers stayed grossly FoTM whole patch, usually 6+ months.



    But then next patches felt bit..odd.. really odd.

    -ToV was pathetic 2½ boss raid in zones that were already in the game. Boss models were already animated and in the game.
    Now, people would rather do EN and forget ToV even existed.

    -AP grind went to 11/10 at later stages. I felt really good hitting 35+ traits on 2/3 weapons. It made me feel that anything after this is just extra and bonus since I dont do mythic NH.
    But now, it went overboard so much that I personally would rather browse facebook than log in to do AP chore, that they made slightly harder, for that 5% AP-bar progress towards "increases crit by 1%" trait.
    Even M+ was fun after doing them over and over.. now they are just useless for AP.

    -Titanforging going to 905 on everything is just baffling. Aw, nuts! giving you 905 stat-stick trinket thats better than heroic NH warforged? Okay sims, whatever.

    -Secondary stats over main stats havent ever been my thing, but then again I'm old.
    Just feels kinda odd to go using 855 item because it procced gem slot and has +150 mastery more than 880 wrist due gemslot.

    -Everyone seemed to just burn out due NH, as discussed over and over again in these forums.

    -7.2. being what it is, feels a lot different from the mentality 7.0.3 had. More grind, less rewards to go further on that grind, gating thing, ilvl scaling was bit bonkers when mob damage scaling was involved (some classes getting 3shotted in 905 gear by non-elites)


    After few years we will look back with our rose-tinted glasses and think that "titanforging wasnt so bad" and that "legendary system was fun and I didnt have issue with it".

    People are also comparing Legion to WoD way too much. Of course its "best ever" if you played WoD. Or so I've heard.
    Last edited by mmocd6ad878d9b; 2017-04-01 at 10:46 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimo View Post
    That's a huge exaggeration.
    What is?

    /10char

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