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  1. #41
    Sargeras...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    You dont'\didn't even know who the end boss would be on 5, 6 and 7 until the last patch\datamining. That's what the OP is talking about. On WotLK and Cataclysm you knew exactly that Lich King and Deathwing would be the end boss, and most of the leveling\quest content acknowledged the fact, and build up the threat from day 0.
    Ye we did, tho? They literally told us Garrosh would be end boss of MoP on Blizzcon prior to it's release. Grom was meant to be the end boss of WoD until last minute decision change. Sargeras is the most obvious choice for end boss of Legion as everything is pointing at it, you don't need them to state it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jasontheking1234 View Post
    Actually, Sargeras wants to take Azeroth so that he could stop the Void lords plans of Corrupting a Titan Baby....

    Also, Sargeras killed The Pantheon, I think he's more than a Capable threat for us (Considering that Kil'jaeden's going to be a Mid-Expac boss).
    He's the Morgoth of the Warcraft universe. Most people who know of LOTR won't even know who Morgoth is, even though he's far more evil and powerful than Sauron. Sargeras hasn't been very present in WoW, and that makes him a terrible box-cover villain.

    We want villains that have a personality, that we can somewhat interact with. Just knowing Sargeras' lore isn't enough to make him a compelling expansion villain. He's done nothing to us. Everything that's happened with the Legion is because of his underlings. If they want Sargeras to be a good villain, they need to bring him into the limelight and have us interact with him directly. So far, he's done nothing but be some 'ever present evil we only whisper about' which is too vague a threat for us to really care about.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    He's the Morgoth of the Warcraft universe. Most people who know of LOTR won't even know who Morgoth is, even though he's far more evil and powerful than Sauron. Sargeras hasn't been very present in WoW, and that makes him a terrible box-cover villain.

    We want villains that have a personality, that we can somewhat interact with. Just knowing Sargeras' lore isn't enough to make him a compelling expansion villain. He's done nothing to us. Everything that's happened with the Legion is because of his underlings. If they want Sargeras to be a good villain, they need to bring him into the limelight and have us interact with him directly. So far, he's done nothing but be some 'ever present evil we only whisper about' which is too vague a threat for us to really care about.
    I agree. He has been a LOT more present lately, and a little less transparent and fleshed out, but he doesn't have that OOMPH that more personal villains have. He's a cosmic threat, one we don't face directly.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtacle View Post
    We pretty much exhausted all the villains from the original games, aside from Blizzard adding in new ones all we have left that would be the most impactful IMO is Azhara and Sargeras.
    No azhara plz - an expansion of nagas and underwater crap? Big ol no thank you.
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  5. #45
    Azshara is obviously going to happen, they're building it up. After Sargeras (potentially) she's a downgrade, so I hope they think of something clever.

    Ultimately they have 2 choices, and the first one is to make a bigger badder end boss every expansion, which so far only means Void lords, possibly some void semi-lords, and dark Azeroth, which probably means bosses with little to no personality and the cliché "I need to destroy everything just because I can".

    The second option is to make DIFFERENT end bosses. What I mean by that is, instead of going dbz power-up style, make interesting storylines. A stupid example would be a race whose planet is destroyed by void lords moves to azeroth out of need, but unlike the orcs they come in peace, but internal struggles happen and a war involving interesting leaders happens on the old continents (I know, I know, placeholder plot shhh..), could introduce new races, tie in with the void lords, and take the time to develop other characters that would eventually become worthy powerful and interesting villains, similar to Garrosh but hopefully different, for future expansions.

    At this rate we will run out of known characters and the new ones won't have time to develop before they die.

    #stopDBZingWoW

  6. #46
    I disagree that not knowing the end boss is necessarily a bad thing. It creates a connection between the expansions so they're not just random out of the blue stories, but rather a continuation of the previous expansion's story.

    MOP>WoD>Legion is a continuous story: It starts with a big buildup of Garrosh throughout MoP, then once he is defeated he goes back in time, creating the alternate reality Gul'dan who manages to make his way back to original reality and unleashes the Legion into the world. Whereas Vanilla>BC>WotLK>Cata were all just stand alone stories that didn't really lead in to each other.

    There is still an 'end boss' of each expansion, which we have to defeat, which gets it's own expansion's worth of build up. It's just that after the 'end boss' we then continue the story without having to wait for the next expansion. So really nothing has changed, except when we get told the story.

  7. #47
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Given that Kil'jaeden is getting taken out in 7.2 and we're going to Argus in 7.3, I can't think of anyone else other than Sargeras that would be the end boss for Legion. All the Burning Legion's heavy hitters have been taken out - Mannoroth, the eredar twins, even Tichondrius just got killed, though I guess he could survive since he didn't die in the Twisting Nether. The only way I could think of us seeing the Legion again would be if we fight Sargeras but don't kill him, and he goes off to rebuild a new version of the Legion. I think that would be kind've a weak outcome though.

  8. #48
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    For those saying, each expansion had their big boss that is the same on each expansion, no. What i mean with big boss is, well just watch these cinematics. You understand the vibe.




    These cinematics alone make you thrilled to kill that one bad ass dude, where the expansion is about.

    The legion is just the WHOLE legion. Not one person.
    If the Big boss was Sargeras, on the cover and in the cinematic, making it's story basically by looking at the xpac alone, then thats what a big boss is.

    Garrosh is just a "Well we gotta have a final boss, here have this lore character"

    It's not the same and never will be.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    No azhara plz - an expansion of nagas and underwater crap? Big ol no thank you.
    Okay, think of this: Why aren't the naga a bigger threat to Azeroth? They are an army of Old God worshipping ancient beings, led by one of the most powerful sorceresses on Azeroth, and managed to kidnap an Elemental Lord while fighting on multiple fronts and having a huge number of their forces on Outland. The answer is because they are UNDERWATER. For the naga to have any success in destroying the world and bringing the Hour of Twilight like their master wants, they have to break free of the water. You can't conquer Ironforge when you are an aquatic species, now can you. I'm almost completely sure that Azshara's goal is to find a way to break her people's reliance on the ocean, rising her empire from the sea, and spreading across the world. It may be what she wanted the Tidestone for, to give her people legs or something.

    A naga expansion doesn't exactly have to be underwater =)

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    Okay, think of this: Why aren't the naga a bigger threat to Azeroth?
    SNIP
    A naga expansion doesn't exactly have to be underwater =)
    I agree, an aquatic species is no threat at all. I don't find the naga to be an acceptable primary enemy mostly because they HAVE NO LEGS - if what you suggest happens and they get turned back into elves or something similar I'd be ok with it. Also they need to raise up a continent for themselves or something, because if Cata proved one thing it's that rehashing Azeroth is a terrible idea.
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    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrm View Post
    One of the most powerful spellcasters in the universe is shit tier? She was compared to Archimonde by Mannoroth back in War of the Ancients.
    She is not.

    She was compared to Archimonde when she had the full power of the well. She has lost that for a long time now and if anything is on par with a withered/wretched. Her only saving grace might be the naga transformation which might have stopped her from becoming a wretched, but it didn't lock in the power of the well. She also was never said to be one of the most powerful in the universe. It was one of the most powerful on Azeroth.

    Please go read up on what happens to people as addicted to the well as Azshara was who would literally swim in it and had restricted access to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Jaina :^)?
    I mean people want to overlook that Jaina got more titan power than Wrathion considering canonically her staff was empowered from Lei Shen's corpse upon defeat which was before we brought the heart to Wrathion.

  12. #52
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    That logic is how we got Gul'dan.

    And that was a colossal waste of everyone's time.

    8.0 doesn't need A villain, it needs a GOOD villain.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  13. #53
    Is Blizz capable of delivering a new and interesting villain?

    If Sargeras is the last big bad of this xpac (which iam still doubting) then where do they go from there?

    No mortal could ever top sargeras and could n'zoth and ashzara really carry a xpac?

    Its funny but for the first time i really dont know where blizz is heading with this game badguy wise

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    This. Azshara was a heavy hitter 10,000 years ago, and she's been shacked up with an Old God since then. Old Gods mean the Void, one of the two underlying powers of the cosmos. She definitely has the potential to be an expansion villain, especially if they set her up as the top agent of N'Zoth/the Void on Azeroth.
    Not to mention that we won't have our artifacts to deal with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJrogue View Post
    No I mean something serious. Like... losing a whole area somewhere. Destroying Dalaran, this sort of stuff.
    Like... losing a war. The legion setting up a permanent base in Azeroth. This sort of stuff.
    How about losing a bunch of major characters, including the leaders of the Alliance and one of the most prominent neutral factions, and the Legion setting up a permanent base on Azeroth? Say, like what happened at the Broken Shore? Losing this war means losing Azeroth. That's not exactly something they can do and still have a game left afterwards.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Not to mention that we won't have our artifacts to deal with that.

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    How about losing a bunch of major characters, including the leaders of the Alliance and one of the most prominent neutral factions, and the Legion setting up a permanent base on Azeroth? Say, like what happened at the Broken Shore? Losing this war means losing Azeroth. That's not exactly something they can do and still have a game left afterwards.
    Well that's exactly the thing, they'd have the option to start a different expansion after that. Let's say for example final patch this expansion we actually lose, three cities in azeroth get destroyed and we're reduced to fighting a guerrilla war as a rebel faction moving underground. Something like shal aran.
    You could have twilight traitors around, you'd be infiltrating them, trying to retake some of the cities lost.
    Surely there's some form of movement and dynamics in terms of storytelling. We've been winning against all odds for the past donkey years. We need to start losing a bit

  16. #56
    I think they need to create a totally new villain instead of using existing ones for maximum impact.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    Okay, think of this: Why aren't the naga a bigger threat to Azeroth? They are an army of Old God worshipping ancient beings, led by one of the most powerful sorceresses on Azeroth, and managed to kidnap an Elemental Lord while fighting on multiple fronts and having a huge number of their forces on Outland. The answer is because they are UNDERWATER. For the naga to have any success in destroying the world and bringing the Hour of Twilight like their master wants, they have to break free of the water. You can't conquer Ironforge when you are an aquatic species, now can you. I'm almost completely sure that Azshara's goal is to find a way to break her people's reliance on the ocean, rising her empire from the sea, and spreading across the world. It may be what she wanted the Tidestone for, to give her people legs or something.

    A naga expansion doesn't exactly have to be underwater =)
    azshara is like DW a good sidekick for a middle xpack tier but don't have the story and the interaction needed to be a successful Villain for an entire xpack, it's like that for the old gods blizzard never used them as the main focus of the xpack but as middle tier boss.

    What we need is a "void legion" a big threat that will encompass all the forces of the void Azshara and old gods included, i hope in 7.3 blizzard will start building them up; the only problem is how the mmo is an hard genre to build up a compelling story in fact the best villain to date the LK was mainly build up in the rts where they can told a story without some dude feeling butthurt because it's character isn't in the limelight.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellus View Post
    Every expansion except WoD has had a big bad with lots of buildup

    2. BC: Illidan
    3. WOTLK: Lich King
    4. CATA: Deathwing
    5. MOP: Garrosh
    6. WoD: Archimonde
    7. LEGION: Sargeras (Probably)
    Problem with BC though is that Illidan isn't the 'big bad', it is actually Kil'jaeden. After all, it is called the burning crusade for a reason

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