So WoW is now World of Artifact Power Craft?

[schwarzkopf]

Yet to see any counter argument from you.

Indeed, I'm sure you haven't bothered seeing anything at all - including all the information presented by myself and others.

Hint - saying it is 100% about AP is by definition incorrect. A quick search of Wowhead or any other resource will show that AP is around 1% of the equation, a currency used to empower just ONE slot on your character.

[Deleted]

Glad I skipped paying a subscription for this patch.

Everything you do narrows down into more AP, literally everything. I enjoyed it far more when actual gear (non-warforge/titanforged era) was your goal and you felt at least accomplishment gaining that piece of gear, instead of feeling let down that you didn't get it with +10 more itemlevels or more.

Professions has been made absolutely useless to the point no one would notice if you patched them out of the game. No more weapon enchants or barely any enchants in general, no or barely any gem slots, no leg armour/thread, no weapon chains or buckles, no head or shoulder enchants, no nothing.

Same with reputation. Literally no reason to do them for anything since the rewards are downright unnecessary, unlike in the past it was a good aim for your head and shoulder enchants, or even an early stat boost item.

In the past? You had different grinds for different things and goals. Grind for gear on your main to be the strongest, grind for being the profession master on your server, grind for quests to be the one with the keys and dungeon expert, grind to have the strongest twink character in your battlegroup.

Now? Artifact power, artifact power, and artifact power.

- And maybe a +10 extra trinket.

Oh yeah, people loved rep farming, that the golden lotus in MoP was so loved. Everyone got excited beyond belief to farm these quests for months because it was "forced" upon you.

Or how great The Sons of Hodir-grind was.

[Tome]

Indeed, I'm sure you haven't bothered seeing anything at all - including all the information presented by myself and others.

Hint - saying it is 100% about AP is by definition incorrect. A quick search of Wowhead or any other resource will show that AP is around 1% of the equation, a currency used to empower just ONE slot on your character.

It's one slot as you say, but it's tied close to everything. You need to reach certain ranks to even be optimal for raid fights, and the currency you get to upgrade it, is pretty much around everywhere. From dedicated grind to random loot rolls and extra-loot rolls. The artifact power is everywhere, and is even considered the final reward in a lot of the things you do.

[Tehterokkar]

Game is in a good state now.

There is no rush to get Artifact power, I just log in every day, clear the AP world quests and WQs in Broken Shore for the rep. 30 mins of work for max AP gains.

ToS is so far away still, and by the time it rolls around, we will have gotten all the major damage increasing traits with ease.

Plus, Artifact levels are now once again exponential, meaning that trait after trait is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive, rather than a subtle 5% increase like we had with 35-54 on top of having already max AK, which translated literally into Time you play = your Artifact level.

Sure you can farm m+ out of your ass now, but in 2 months when ToS is released, you will have an 1 million %(or more, can't seem to find a clear AK list) increase to AP rather than the 100k% we have right now. Meaning at that point, 1 m+10 is equal to 10 m+10 you do now.

[schwarzkopf]

It's one slot as you say,

Exactly - so your initial assertion was completely incorrect. If you want to try some rational thought and come back with a rational discussion - feel free.

[Coffeexbean]

Who says games are only supposed to be fun?

video games are meant to be played which means "engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose."

[Tome]

Oh yeah, people loved rep farming, that the golden lotus in MoP was so loved. Everyone got excited beyond belief to farm these quests for months because it was "forced" upon you.

Or how great The Sons of Hodir-grind was.

Personally I didn't like Pandaria because it was plagued in a very similar way Legion is plagued now. Pandaria was hard on daily quests constantly about everything, just how Legion is hard on time gating and locking away things.

I prefer tibits from different eras like daily quests in TBC, reputation farming from WotLk/Cata and professions from Vanilla/TBC/WotLk.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly - so your initial assertion was completely incorrect. If you want to try some rational thought and come back with a rational discussion - feel free.

Saying something is incorrect doesn't make it so, that's not how it works. Feel free to list a couple of things that doesn't have AP as reward in the end, or rewards AP at all that isn't completely useless, like professions.

Other than that, I feel the game is glorifying and aims/narrows down towards AP only with gear in raids.

[Deleted]

Seems like all everyone is doing is farming AP. Is that even an effective use of your time in WoW? Doesn't it eventually all even out in the end when everyone AK 50?

How about...

World of Casualcraft?

[WowIsDead64]

We asked for leveling-like progression after level cap - we've got it.

[Flurryfang]

Unless you are going for realm/world first, then Ap is not a forced grind. Blizzard have made a very public promise, that AK will increase alot for every upgrade you get, so if you want to keep ahead, you will need to be keep grinding to mid june or more. They have also made it clear, that they will try to stop people grinding, so if you don't like being nerfed, stop grinding.

Undtil we have AK lvl 50, there is no need to grind your brains out, undless you want to use the small advantage in a competative manner. Remember: you are your own limiter. Try to play the game in the way that you enjoy it and if you feel miserable because of your playstyle, change your playstyle.

[Deleted]

video games are meant to be played which means "engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose."

So esports is not a thing?

And who exactly decides what games are meant for?

[Coffeexbean]

So esports is not a thing?

And who exactly decides what games are meant for?

Anything that isnt work is a hobby which you do for recreational reasons. For fun and enjoyment is the purpose. Are you on an esports team? If not take a seat. If you are, you know what it takes to be where you are and the struggle is worth it to you. If you dont enjoy it dont do it. If you want to be a lawyer you have to go to law school you dont whine that its too hard you struggle through the competition. "But thats different this is a game" Exactly. Its a game not a job unless it is a job for you so relax.

[Supercool]

First, all this time the guy who is ahead is taken to groups that reward better gear and better everything. I doubt that effect was accounted for.

Second, yes, diminishing returns guarantee that you will eventually catch up to whoever. But in what timeframe? Because if that's something like 3 months, chances are, you won't catch up, Blizzard will add another set of stairs before you do and the guy who was ahead will get more ahead due to factors that are, again, not counted (getting to a new mechanic / raid / whatever, a week before others can easily propel you forward more than a week).

This has always been the issue. And for the record, I think Blizz has finally gotten it sort of right, but it's halfway through Legion already and a lot of people who were getting fed up with AP grinding in ToV have already fled and aren't coming back.

It's fine to say it all evens out in the end, but then as they say "in the long run we're all dead." And in the long run in WoW there's always going to be another gear reset down the line.

But that doesn't mean short-term imbalance is acceptable when it's exactly what drives players away.

[rda]

It's fine to say it all evens out in the end, but then as they say "in the long run we're all dead." And in the long run in WoW there's always going to be another gear reset down the line.

But that doesn't mean short-term imbalance is acceptable when it's exactly what drives players away.

Especially when "short-term" means "months". Months of playing steadily, getting rewards that are laughable from the point of view of others, praying that Blizzard won't nudge the rules and won't add ways for those who are ahead of you to get more ahead while you are trying desperately to maybe even out in the next raid tier. Who the f wants to play like that? "It's MMO"? Yeah? It was way easier to catch up before, they made it much harder. (In PVP especially.) I doubt that's going to do the game any good, but, hey, let's wait and see how Legion is going to end up, shall we.

[HeiAggra]

Uh... you realize he's a raider, right? He's not saying that this is the way the entire game would be for everybody. Ideally they could come up with systems that would keep relevant for people who don't raid. Raiders have plenty of content to do. The problem is that we now have to do crazy amounts of non-raiding things in order to get by and be competitive. Raiding guilds shouldn't HAVE to do things outside of raid to be competitive. It's fun for me but it isn't fun for everybody.

WTF? Since dawn of WOW raiding guild always had to prepare in advance.
They had some much to do, they had ppl to farm for them and get foods and pots while they would gear ppl in dungeon to raid.

[FelPlague]

Funny, because back in WOTLK, the expac with the highest subscriber count, you could easily get by just logging in to raid, and maybe spending 2-3 hours a week farming mats for flasks/food.

really? cause i reemmber being forced to do dailies for rep to get enchants and daily heroics to get emblems to buy gear, aswell as old raids to get more emblems and complete a quest

[D3cadent]

a trait or two.

Yep M+ runs 8 hours a day get you a tiny little win down the track over someone who just played naturally.

I'd love to see the math that you've referred to in this thread regarding this for 7.2, because it definitely was NOT the case with the 54 trait situation pre-7.2. I was one of the 'grinders' and the people who were just doing AP WQ's every now and then were between 5-10 points behind me for weeks. And this resulted in a not-insignificant amount of extra damage for me by virtue of the extra % from those points. If you want to call that a 'tiny little win' then that's just a matter of perspective, and your dismissal of his point is worthless because you have a completely different perspective from anyone trying to be competitive.

[Factoral]

I don't understand this hatred for the AP system. I'm a casual player, so I do not raid but I do M+ sometimes or just quests around the world.

My Arms spec is level 37. My Tank spec is level 34 and my Fury spec is 34 as well. I haven't done anything really other than the 4 WQ per day and the story line's. So someone who plays it a lot more than I do shouldn't have an issue getting there Artifact leveled up.

This game hasn't changed much in respect to the grind. In the past you grind Rep and now you grind AP.

[socialmaker]

"play at your pace etc" ok let me put it in a different perspective. Artifacts are useless pieces of shit that serve to only keep players subbed longer in the game. Even if you put in all your points you're not progressing, you're just falling in line with what your class should do. However +/- 5-10% buffs or nerfs render the artifact progression system useless. It's just an illusion of progress nothing more.

I would rather have 50 possible traits from which to choose and you're given a total of 30 points. This way players could opt for a personal route and make their chars more diverse. Now that would be a better system. If you HAVE to get them all why even put them in the game to begin with ?

And don't get me started on the "usefulness" of some of those traits. 80% are garbage because all they do is either add 5/10/15% more damage (which with class balance/tuning) means ZERO. Some other talents were inflated like Pain suppression (which instead of being 3 minutes like it always has been it was nerfed to 4 minutes BUT you can put in 3 shitty points and bring it to 3 min 30 seconds) - now that's fun progression AMIRITE ?

Some points that are "hellagarbage" like that golden trait for disc that gives you 1% damage for every atonement on friendly ppl - in arena 2v2 you get a whooping 1% more damage, nice balance bros.

All of this combined with 5 day research, millions of AP, weapon gating, broken shore weapon gating for each class and each SPEC makes Legion worse and worse for me.

[schwarzkopf]

I'd love to see the math that you've referred to in this thread regarding this for 7.2

You can do it yourself - every 5 days, your efficiency increases by around 1.3 times. That grows into some very large numbers very quickly.

The easiest way of looking at it is that over the next 10 weeks, around 60% of your TOTAL AP will be earned in the last 3 weeks.
AND over the next 20 weeks, around 60% of your TOTAL AP will also be earned in the last 3 weeks of the TWENTY weeks.

In addition - if you cherry pick AP sources, you get even greater efficiency.