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  1. #61
    Pretty sure he means using it from stealth as in initial attack :P

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    This is a joke right?

    Suggeting to this guy that he not use DoS in the shoulder/stealthed/crit window is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

    Having it 100% crit is crucial. I personally wouldn't use DoS right after vanish, but you absolutely use it in the crit window.
    I think he means don't use DoS while you're not auto attacking. But yes use it during the crit window.
    MY X/Y POKEMON FRIEND CODE: 1418-7279-9541 In Game Name: Michael__

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    This is a joke right?

    Suggeting to this guy that he not use DoS in the shoulder/stealthed/crit window is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

    Having it 100% crit is crucial. I personally wouldn't use DoS right after vanish, but you absolutely use it in the crit window.
    How can you seriously interpret my comment like that? Stealth =/= crit window, I mean no fucking shit you use it in the crit window but the question was to use it in actual stealth since the trinket doesn't break stealth

  4. #64
    You dont want to do that since its not getting buffed by ap if you use it in the stealth phase.

  5. #65
    So I've been using this opener for awhile, and planned to use it with DOS when I acquired one. I finally bonus rolled one from heroic last night and it works magnificently IMO.

    garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>KB>mut>vendetta+vanish>envenom>mut>garrote>envenom>mut>DOS >envenom

    The reason this opener works so well "in my opinion", is that the mut after KB has a small delay, but allows you to use every last bit of energy before you use vendetta, which nets you a larger return. Then after the vanish, you get a 5CP envenom, and I use mut/garrote to build to another 5 envenom before the DOS to ensure a full 10% SOT buff to my AP. The garrote I feel is worth it as it takes your 8 seconds or so left from your opening garrote and turns it into 23 seconds of 125% buffed damage (plus it gets you to that 10% SOT).

    I only got a few mythic kills in with it last night, but it regularly netted a 3million+ dps burst on my opener.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Akachan View Post
    You dont want to do that since its not getting buffed by ap if you use it in the stealth phase.
    I don't think you read my post. If you use it right after the vanish you should already have 5 stacks of AP and if you use envenom before the vanish you'll also have surge of toxins rolling.

    I am getting good results with a version of Elyzibeth's opener.

    garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>vendetta+KB>mut>envenom>vanish + DoS>mut>garotte>envenom...mut/envenom spam

    Again, the only real advantage to popping DoS in stealth is to extend the crit window by an additional 3 seconds while also ensuring DoS crits.

  7. #67
    Using DoS without breaking Vanish stealth does not extend your crit window because you waste the crit buff extension from the vanish buff, and both are 3s, so your total crit buff duration is 9s either way. The sole difference is you auto attack if you break stealth first, and you don't auto attack if you just press the trinket.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Using DoS without breaking Vanish stealth does not extend your crit window because you waste the crit buff extension from the vanish buff, and both are 3s, so your total crit buff duration is 9s either way. The sole difference is you auto attack if you break stealth first, and you don't auto attack if you just press the trinket.
    Ah ya you're right. I was thinking you would still get the 9 seconds after leaving stealth for some reason. No real advantage then.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggawatt View Post
    Ah ya you're right. I was thinking you would still get the 9 seconds after leaving stealth for some reason. No real advantage then.
    Wouldn't you also lose the subterfuge bonus on your second garrote since it'd occur after 3 seconds from your vanish? Or is it still buffed until 3 seconds of normal stealth fading (i.e. 6 seconds from vanish)?

    - - - Updated - - -

    On topic, how many here are using castsequence macros for their openers since its a lot faster paced than the usual openers? Reminds me a bit of sub openers in WoD.

  10. #70
    I am really confused.. I dropped the shoulders last night and I've been struggling to understand the opener and the new rotation overall, but I find it confusing.

    The opener I've been playing with is the one from wEak:
    Garrote -> Mut -> Rupture -> Mut -> Vendetta -> Envenom -> Kingsbane -> Mut -> Pool energy -> Envenom -> Vanish -> Mut -> Envenom -> Garrote -> Mut

    Let's say I got my head a bit over the opener but I do not know how to prepare when I get again a vanish + vendetta & kb.

    Should I start pooling full energy right before Vanish comes off cooldown? And then? Vanish muti envenom spam? Or do a part of the opener again? I suppose you'll only apply a SoT in the 6 sec crit window and spam muti/env in the meantime.

    Tl;dr - wEak's opener. What should I do when vanish comes off CD after 2 mins (and all the CDs align)? Spam env/muti?

  11. #71
    Deleted
    Had question more about the rotation. Do you wait every time for the vanish CD to pop DoS or just as soon as it is up?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by HB1MAN View Post
    Had question more about the rotation. Do you wait every time for the vanish CD to pop DoS or just as soon as it is up?
    I don't have DoS nor am I a master but I heard that you are going to use DoS as soon as it is up.

  13. #73
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkkz View Post
    I don't have DoS nor am I a master but I heard that you are going to use DoS as soon as it is up.
    So its definitly worth to use it on cd?
    The third vanish is lined up pretty good with DoS so its only the second vanish i think?
    Last edited by mmoc96ce41db5d; 2017-03-22 at 07:09 PM.

  14. #74
    now that they fixed the extra 3 seconds from Subterfuge should we go back to Nightstalker?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by scarfdeath View Post
    now that they fixed the extra 3 seconds from Subterfuge should we go back to Nightstalker?
    i am wondering the same question, and how would the rotation look now

  16. #76
    I used garrote>mut>rup>Ven>mut to 5 points>vanish>rup>kingsbane>mut, evenom and so on

  17. #77
    Recent fix to mantle brought so much confusion, everybody tells different about Sub vs NS and openers

    with the crit window now being back to the intended 6s, what's stronger dmg output of the the below after we vanish?

    1. Vanish with 4-5CP -- Env/Rup -- followed by filling max amount of Mut-Env within crit window -- then DoS
    2. Vanish with 4-5CP -- Env/Rup -- followed by DoS fully within crit window -- then fit 1 Mut-Env
    3. Or something else?

    33crit 145mastery unbuffed.

    Thank you
    Last edited by ElvisOnMars; 2017-04-03 at 08:46 AM.

  18. #78
    Deleted
    Also FOND seem to got some kind of proc buff, it proc alot more regular and not often a fight where you see a huge spike or no dmg at all. Atm I dropped draught in favour of fond

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by osicat View Post
    Also FOND seem to got some kind of proc buff, it proc alot more regular and not often a fight where you see a huge spike or no dmg at all. Atm I dropped draught in favour of fond
    agree, now the 915 NBF with socket i passed is chasing me in nightmares

    on topic, my personal favour goes to the opener below now. Not sure if a guaranteed best, but performs consistenyly very well with Subterfuge picked.

    Last edited by ElvisOnMars; 2017-04-03 at 09:37 AM.

  20. #80
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by osicat View Post
    Also FOND seem to got some kind of proc buff, it proc alot more regular and not often a fight where you see a huge spike or no dmg at all. Atm I dropped draught in favour of fond
    Used NBF on any any NH boss yesterday, didnt done more then 2-2,5% sometimes 1%
    For me it seems even worse. Atleast for sin rogues.

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