What do we need for 7.2.5?

[FelPlague]

3.3 support spellpower/spirit demo lock... thats what we need

[Deleted]

3.3 support spellpower/spirit demo lock... thats what we need

No, let's never have that back thank you very much. Personal opinions aside, sure I can see why people would want that back. But personally I just did not find that playstyle fun at all.

[Irian]

My biggest gripe is that shit actually comes close to getting you killed. You take way more damage from it in any encounter than anything else. It's absurd. Warlocks are supposd to be durable and have strong self healing. With Empowered Life Tap, it only makes the gap between destro and demo/aff even worse.

Going out into world quests I actually have to swap to eradication because I don't have healers to babysit my health and using drain life just decimates your mana as well so you'll be life tapping sooner.

Let's see what we get with 7.2.5 because warlock specs are a total shit show.

People playing affliction are starting to forget because they got inflated numbers to distract them from the real flaws of the spec, but as soon as affliction numbers nosedive for one reason or another, the same mechanical flaws that also plague demo and destro will start stinking again.

This is kinda why I hate it too. In a raid setting it's annoying but manageable, because often your artifact's damage reduction will offset the HP loss if you take a large hit. But overall I've played a ton of classes to 110 now and I've never seen anything to Empowered Life Tap's degree of awkwardness when you're just trying to quest or something.

Honestly if I forget to take it off before doing outdoor content I usually just outright ignore it. I think that's definitely a sign of a problem.

Empowered life tap should generate a resource that we actually care about... health for a soul shard?

An off GCD with a cooldown that generated a soul shard at the cost of health would definitely be welcome in the RNG shitstorm that is destruction, because man do I love going an entire bloodlust and only pulling off 3 chaos bolts with Feretory of Souls.

[wholol]

I agree that aff's strength should be focused into multi dotting instead of ST and destro's ST should be improved upon.

But what I really wish to see is demo being polished, it's so clunky like holyfuck , they need to do something about DE.

[Deleted]

1) destro : focussed chaos pvp talent in place of soul conduit

2) demono : call dreadstalker instant/castable while moving
new 4part T 20 made baseline

[Sylar Hao]

As a main Destro since forever (vanilla indeed, with the very same character I created back then) (of course, just my own opinion):

Go back to MoP Destro. Since unfortunately this won't happen:

> Turn Soul Shards into Embers or semi-embers-thing-something-whatever.

> Erase all or nearly all RNG based mechanics. One proc to react to is fine and can be fun, but building an entire spec around 9872349709 RNGs is not. Chaotic isn't synonym of Destructive, and viceversa. This chaotic fantasy sounds cool in paper, works really bad in game. I want to be back this master of controlled burst moments and manager of sources, a Destroyer, and not a master of passive RNG:
--- Mastery redesigned to something cool that actually feels like you are destroying. It feels really disapointing when I get a critical incinerate and then a chaos bolt that deal the same amount of damage. Or cast several CBs and none or only one shines in damage. Feels like neither Chaos bolt nor our shards are worth.
--- A way to predict or decide which Dimensional Rift to call. Or redesigned to something without RNG.
--- A steady, smooth, predictable way to generate Embers/Shards. Like seriously, sometimes I'm flooded and can't seem to spend them, sometimes it takes forever to even generate a single one.
--- A reliable way to do AoE baseline (without talents), tab-targetting Immolate is a NO for destruction. Rain of Fire is a very iconic and cool spell that's not worth to cast because AoE things die so fast... Rain of Fire should go back to only cost mana and then give us Cataclysm as our AoE Ember/Shard spender, with cast time and cooldown halved, at least.
--- Incinerate interesting to cast. Up until level +104 or so Incinerate has 0 connection with the rest of the kit until you get Dimensional Ripper (if you choose to go first)... and then again is another RNG connection.

> Chaos Bolt should be back again the strongest spell in the game, something you cast "rarely" but hits like a truck. C'mon, it's called Chaos Bolt... And it should again include the physical school, because I have so many chances to fight any DK or Rogue that they use AMS and CoS offensively while I can't do anything to counter them between all the CC and interrupts or create any kind of gap from them, that I can't even cast the only spell I could back then... c'mon...

> Life Tap and Empowered Life Tap need to die in fire. Bring back the mana-energy-like from MoP. Or the mana part of Reversed Entropy made baseline. The fantasy of this ability is to sacrifice your own health to become more powerful... a chunk of mana or a maintenance small buff don't match that fantasy.

> Demonic Circle back to baseline. With two buttons, PLEASE. I love how Blizzard hates abilities need macros to work properly... and they modify our only mobility tool in a game where everybody else has a movement boost/reposition/gap closer ability baseline, to a talent in our CC talent row (...!) that needs a macro... Feels like they are mocking us.

> An actual CD. Warlocks are the only DPS specs that share the DPS cooldown between specs. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Dark Soul: Misery, Knowledge and Instability. Not that I don't like the Infernal and Doomguard, but they aren't really powerful and have such a terrible AI...

> I hate that some of the PvP talents are actually awesome for PvE (I hate that there are PvP talents to begin with, and I'm an avid PvP player, I mean, why am I able to be more powerful against players than against the bad guys of the expansion?, makes no sense to me, but that's just my opinion) I'd trade my two guardians in a glimpse to get Firestone or Cremation, better Firestone.

> They wanted us to doubling down our strengths, which is tankiness. Ok.. cool.. which tankiness are we talking about again? Yes, it works OK in PvE... but I have high gear and I get deleted by every melee player in a few secs. Can't react, can't escape, can't run, can't cast... if only when we can finally cast something we actually destroyed our foes... but then you see those Chaos Bolts and Dimentional Rifts hit like wet noodles...

> Make Havoc work in single target, duplicating the spells you cast on the same target. Wreck Havoc talent would disable this option. This would fix the single target low damage problem we have without nerfing our niche and making the player decide when it's the right time to use it single target vs cleave, I find it'd be interesting.

And I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting things to mention, but I guess you see my point

[Avikur]

*snip*

Totally agree with everything you said*, I miss my MoP Destro Lock, not for the OP damage but for the fun, the fact it was enjoyable and engaging to play.

*The only point I disagree with is making Havoc work on single target, I'd really hate having to keep a maintenance buff up on one target, our ST damage would be tuned around having Havoc up 100%, in PVE this would cripple target swapping if havoc had it's 20s cooldown, if it had no cooldown it'd be a pain in the ass to keep re-applying it each time you switch targets. Havoc should have a longer CD, Wreak Havoc should go and then Blizz can buff damage so we are competitive in single target and also strong but not OP on cleave.

[Sylar Hao]

Totally agree with everything you said*, I miss my MoP Destro Lock, not for the OP damage but for the fun, the fact it was enjoyable and engaging to play.

*The only point I disagree with is making Havoc work on single target, I'd really hate having to keep a maintenance buff up on one target, our ST damage would be tuned around having Havoc up 100%, in PVE this would cripple target swapping if havoc had it's 20s cooldown, if it had no cooldown it'd be a pain in the ass to keep re-applying it each time you switch targets. Havoc should have a longer CD, Wreak Havoc should go and then Blizz can buff damage so we are competitive in single target and also strong but not OP on cleave.

It wouldn't be a maintenance buff because you can't keep it 100% uptime, it would be like a short dps CD, and you'd want to use it most likely when you're sure you can cast a few Chaos bolts to make the best of it. And like I suggested, Wreak Havoc would disable using it single target (it would be crazy op). But then again is just an idea

[Avikur]

It wouldn't be a maintenance buff because you can't keep it 100% uptime, it would be like a short dps CD, and you'd want to use it most likely when you're sure you can cast a few Chaos bolts to make the best of it. And like I suggested, Wreak Havoc would disable using it single target (it would be crazy op). But then again is just an idea

Ah ok, that could work shame Blizzard don't seem to listen! so much good feedback during beta went ignored. I have my fingers crossed for Destro going back to ember style gameplay in 7.2.5 as Ion did say it would happen this expansion and if it's not this patch I guess we'd have to wait until 7.3.5 which could be quite close to the end of the expansion, that would suck!

[Sylar Hao]

Ah ok, that could work shame Blizzard don't seem to listen! so much good feedback during beta went ignored. I have my fingers crossed for Destro going back to ember style gameplay in 7.2.5 as Ion did say it would happen this expansion and if it's not this patch I guess we'd have to wait until 7.3.5 which could be quite close to the end of the expansion, that would suck!

Bearing in mind the history of "abandoning" and not listening to feedback (excluding MoP) of this class by Blizzard, I'd be really surprised if we actually get anything at all before next expansion...

[Kncvasdlsfui]

Give demo 8 max soul shards. I don't give a fuck. Going over my max or having to spend lifetaps to make my rotation make sense is incredibly awful. I don't want anything else.

[CuchuCachu]

So with blizzards quote I think we should agree that Warlocks need work since we missed the opportunity during the last patch cycle.

7.2.5 will have more class changes than 7.2 (which was the plan from the beginning), and this forum will likely have more to talk about, for both devs and players, once that PTR is underway. For the specs that do get significant changes, making sure our intent and goals are clear during the PTR is important to us, since it gets us the best feedback. As you've seen from the Rogue post, some specs have had tentative plans being formed even before 7.2 shipped, so they'd be ready for player testing with the maximum amount of time on 7.2.5 PTR.

Outside of afflictions artifact weapon and destructions lack of ST damage potential and Demonology Empower spam. What do you feel we need to improve damage/gameplay/mechanic wise?

Note: Let's keep this constructive.

Be sure to post on official forums!

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that aff's strength should be focused into multi dotting instead of ST and destro's ST should be improved upon.

But what I really wish to see is demo being polished, it's so clunky like holyfuck , they need to do something about DE.

Multidotting is not common enough really. What Affliction needs is to not be terrible at adds, which goes beyond multidotting. Otherwise Affliction would be good at the odd council fight (except maybe not better than Destro because of Havoc) but not really needed anywhere else with Destro and Demo being sufficient.

One suggestion of mine would be upfront damage of some kind on UA, and/or incentivize throwing out UAs on adds better for quick(er) damage

And also I question if the Rend Soul nerf was needed based on these (current) rankings

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankin...895-fight-max/

[Avikur]

And also I question if the Rend Soul nerf was needed based on these (current) rankings

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankin...895-fight-max/

There is no point looking at noxxic for anything, it's guides are terrible and it's rankings are laughable. To get an idea of how each spec is actually performing look on Warcraft logs.

Damage isn't an issue for Warlocks, that can be changed at any point with small hotfixes, 7.2.5 will hopefully fix some mechanical issues and flaws the class has.

[syllabic]

Afflic needs about a 5-10% dps nerf ASAP so that we don't get absolutely murdered in the 7.2.5 tuning patch. I wish they would hotfix a dps nerf in. Maybe 5-10% less UA damage or something. Those warcraftlogs rankings are fucking terrifying.

[Gohzerlock]

Afflic needs about a 5-10% dps nerf ASAP so that we don't get absolutely murdered in the 7.2.5 tuning patch. I wish they would hotfix a dps nerf in. Maybe 5-10% less UA damage or something. Those warcraftlogs rankings are fucking terrifying.

Right because inflated rankings that show short pulls with people starting at 12 souls should be taken seriously. I wouldn't mind if they shifted some of the damage from UA into agony or corruption, but that would be kind of counter intuitive to what they've intended for affliction design.

[syllabic]

Right because inflated rankings that show short pulls with people starting at 12 souls should be taken seriously. I wouldn't mind if they shifted some of the damage from UA into agony or corruption, but that would be kind of counter intuitive to what they've intended for affliction design.

Uh no, all the new rankings are 7.2 which is after they changed the souls to reset on pull. Part of the reason afflock is crushing the meters so hard is because of the other souls tweaks they made in 7.2 to make basically all adds give you souls.

Those juiced up afflock statistics are legitimate. And very worrisome.

[Shandalar]

Being honest, I really doubt that the DE spamming issue will get fixed. T20 4p is about that, the 4th gold trait too and it will affect some talents like power trip. Too many things to touch.

I would be happy with some qol and talent improvements, like:

-Generate passively imps out of combat until the max of 4, and their lifetime begin getting in combat

-DE casting on move

-making shadowflame an aoe talent, reducing its dmg and applying with hog or something like that

-hand of doom baseline

-something with the grimories. Really hard to balance meanwhile they stay into the same slot.

[Splenetic]

A lock healer spec.

[PowerOfTwo]

I dono man, warlock is fine... as in if you combine the 3 warlock specs you get something that can do target swapping (aff, yes of the 3 AFF is best at target swapping, for ttk < 10 seconds), Cleave, AoE, ST tunelling, even Demo has a nieche in council fights realisticaly (you know, with the belt). In the past i wouldn't care, any serios raider would at least KNOW to play the optimal spec for each fight and at least try to mainting a gear set for each spec... now tho?

I made the mistake of switching from destro in EN to Demo and am still paying the price. I don't have alot of time to play and have gotten my frist bis (demo shoulders) legendary like a couple weeks ago... (besides that i have norganons portal pants and the ever lovely sin'dorei spite). The smart person would switch to aff at this point but "half way" to getting double bis for demo. I just want my freaking demo Legs so i can switch to a real spec.....

Somehow we eneded up having 3 locks in the guild (8/10M) ... i havn't been in on progression kills since fucking Anomaly... because the other 2 are Aff and both have Cloak and bracers (hell one switched from destro to aff, where he had ALL the destro legendaries, switches to aff, boom, cloak bracers in like a week). And i'm the one asking to be benched btw.

I dono, i'm pretty dissolusioned with Legion mostly just playing coz i have nothing else to do with my free time. But persnaly, the problem isn't warlock, lock has the tools to SHINE as a dps on any conceiveble fight, if you can swap between the specs , if you have legendaries for it ofc.

[Cheze]

the only thing I really is a rework of demonic empowerment into something more compelling; I'm not sure how I'd change the spec exactly but spending so much of your active time casting a spell that has no GFX, deals no damage and (mostly) generates no resources really sucks