Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Dragon Claws]

What's that saying, "Diversity breeds adversity" ?

Hardcore comicbook fans are all in their late 30s and early 40s now. The industry knew this and attempted to secure the SJW market, thinking they would be able to fill in the age gap created when comics went to shit the kids stopped caring.

The age of comics has passed and comics as an industry will die. We are witnessing a midlife crisis but the person having the midlife crisis failed to accomplish what they wanted to do so, leaving doubt for their future.

Quite frankly I'm not concerned about comics dying. Death is the only suitable punishment for traitors. Liberals clap when you act progressive, but they'll NEVER support you and buy your shit.

The problem is it was outside forces DEMANDING Marvel push for diversity rathar than the fans themselves. It's like if Porsche was being pushed to make a cheap, affordable car. It would be nothing like what the current Porsche owners drive, and they'd end up not buying the cheap one anyway since it's trash.

To further add to my post, Mange is still going strong despite being the same media format and ironically enough is more diverse in it's offering of genres and stories even though they're all created by the Japanese. Though part of it is probably the difference in mainstream culture. Manga is just another form of entertainment available and accessable most everywhere. While comics are pigeonholed into only specialty shops that deal in nothing but comics and "geek" or "nerdy" stuff. You'll be hard pressed to find a comic to conveinence or grocery stores like before.

Meanwhile diversity itself doesn't seem like the main culprit here. X-men and other older comic stories were championed as diverse and inclusive. The main difference here is that back then each character had their own identity to build, their own story. Nowadays all they do is rip off the costume of an already very well-established here and slap it on some nobody and expect everybody to instantly love it. Doesn't work like that, but then again comics especially superhero comics already have a problem with never ending stories that constantly retcons itself because they're too scared to kill the cash cow, even long running mangas have a clear beginning and end.

[OrcsRLame]

Ayn Rand's philosophy (if you can even call it that) is a pretty important force in American right wing politics and has been for decades. It is less popular in the rest of the modern world.

Also a fun thing to mention here is that the final blow to the KKK was being made fun of in the Superman TV show, so sometimes even the most obvious and heavy handed political messages can be impactful and with merit.

Have you seen Get Out?

Superman TV show? As in Smallville? I really tried to like that show. I really really tried. I made it to like season 5 before I just couldn't do it anymore. I lost interest after the time travel episode where Superman solved his problems in a day but it didn't work out because destiny. Ruined the best scene in the series imo.

I have not seen Get Out.

I could talk about the things I like if that would help us reach an understanding.

[NineSpine]

That's complete bullshit. Just call white or straight people scumbags and be done with it instead of using coded language.

God, I've never seen someone so easily triggered and offended. You are just a walking offense-machine looking for anything to be upset about.

The comic fanbase is homogeneous and insular. That's just a fact. It's not even debatable. Know what else has a homogeneous and insular fan base? Romance novels, which are primarily read by women. Does that mean I think women are scumbags? How does that even make sense?

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Superman TV show? As in Smallville? I really tried to like that show. I really really tried. I made it to like season 5 before I just couldn't do it anymore. I lost interest after the time travel episode where Superman solved his problems in a day but it didn't work out because destiny. Ruined the best scene in the series imo.

The old old old black and white show.

I have not seen Get Out.

I could talk about the things I like if that would help us reach an understanding.

I think what you are saying is you don't want the art to talk down to you about politics.

[Kalis]

1. Extremists on both sides are prone to violence. This isn't surprising.

2. I'm still not sure why people get so bent outta shape about a neo-Nazi getting decked. There was a time in US history when sucker-punching a Nazi would have been greeted with applause and offers of free drinks, but now we've got folks wringing their hands in worry about the poor neo-Nazi's feelings. The "Greatest Generation" that actually fought Nazi's would be disappointed.

How detached from reality do you have to be to equate someone hitting that knobhead with fighting Nazi Germany, who had an army, navy and airforce?

[NineSpine]

Those don't worry me as much because everyone with a functioning brain already knows that those murders are horrific and evil. It's not the acts themselves, (because good luck stopping violence in its entirety) it's the otherwise normal people that try to justify violent acts with platitudes that worry me.

Call me crazy, but I'm concerned with what practically happens in the real world, so I'm just more concerned with a pile of dead bodies than pontificating about the moral debate of Nazi-punching.

[Incredibale]

God, I've never seen someone so easily triggered and offended. You are just a walking offense-machine looking for anything to be upset about.

Nope, was calling you out on your bigotry.

The comic fanbase is homogeneous and insular. That's just a fact. It's not even debatable. Know what else has a homogeneous and insular fan base? Romance novels, which are primarily read by women. Does that mean I think women are scumbags? How does that even make sense?

So they want to fix this supposed problem by catering to some psychopath lefties that don't even buy their products for the most part?

Your entire screed is embarrassing bullshit.

[NineSpine]

What's that saying, "Diversity breeds adversity" ?

Hardcore comicbook fans are all in their late 30s and early 40s now. The industry knew this and attempted to secure the SJW market, thinking they would be able to fill in the age gap created when comics went to shit the kids stopped caring.

The age of comics has passed and comics as an industry will die. We are witnessing a midlife crisis but the person having the midlife crisis failed to accomplish what they wanted to do so, leaving doubt for their future.

Quite frankly I'm not concerned about comics dying. Death is the only suitable punishment for traitors. Liberals clap when you act progressive, but they'll NEVER support you and buy your shit.

The problem is it was outside forces DEMANDING Marvel push for diversity rathar than the fans themselves. It's like if Porsche was being pushed to make a cheap, affordable car. It would be nothing like what the current Porsche owners drive, and they'd end up not buying the cheap one anyway since it's trash.

To further add to my post, Mange is still going strong despite being the same media format and ironically enough is more diverse in it's offering of genres and stories even though they're all created by the Japanese. Though part of it is probably the difference in mainstream culture. Manga is just another form of entertainment available and accessable most everywhere. While comics are pigeonholed into only specialty shops that deal in nothing but comics and "geek" or "nerdy" stuff. You'll be hard pressed to find a comic to conveinence or grocery stores like before.

Meanwhile diversity itself doesn't seem like the main culprit here. X-men and other older comic stories were championed as diverse and inclusive. The main difference here is that back then each character had their own identity to build, their own story. Nowadays all they do is rip off the costume of an already very well-established here and slap it on some nobody and expect everybody to instantly love it. Doesn't work like that, but then again comics especially superhero comics already have a problem with never ending stories that constantly retcons itself because they're too scared to kill the cash cow, even long running mangas have a clear beginning and end.

But comics are doing fine. Marvel and DC have a problem, not comics in general.

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Nope, was calling you out on your bigotry.



So they want to fix this supposed problem by catering to some psychopath lefties that don't even buy their products for the most part?

Your entire screed is embarrassing bullshit.

Are you really so deluded that you think it is psychopathic to say "I would like to read a comic book about someone I can identify more closely with"?

They wanted to fix the problem of not having enough readers, and a smart way to do that is to try to attract new readers who weren't interested before. One way to do that is trying to establish characters that new readers may identify better with. I identify great with Peter Parker as an unpopular kid from a city. That was me once. I completely understand why a black woman from Alabama might not find him as compelling. I don't think it's crazy for her to want to read about a character that shares similar life experiences.

[OrcsRLame]

God, I've never seen someone so easily triggered and offended. You are just a walking offense-machine looking for anything to be upset about.

The comic fanbase is homogeneous and insular. That's just a fact. It's not even debatable. Know what else has a homogeneous and insular fan base? Romance novels, which are primarily read by women. Does that mean I think women are scumbags? How does that even make sense?

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The old old old black and white show.



I think what you are saying is you don't want the art to talk down to you about politics.

I think you're starting to seriously understand my position. I find heavy handed political talk in my entertainment to be tiring. You could call that talking down to me and you wouldn't be wrong. It just makes me want to slam my head into my desk. There's a time and a place for things like that, and it's called satire. I love Nixxon in Futurama. Hilarious with amazingly quotable lines. I would cringe myself into a grave if something like that was rammed into Dark Souls.

I understand that politics and society is part of being human. I don't want fiction to shy away from that. There's a right and a wrong way to go about that though. I think we've now thoroughly established what is and isn't the right way to do that, at least from my perspective.

[NineSpine]

I think you're starting to seriously understand my position. I find heavy handed political talk in my entertainment to be tiring. You could call that talking down to me and you wouldn't be wrong. It just makes me want to slam my head into my desk. There's a time and a place for things like that, and it's called satire. I love Nixxon in Futurama. Hilarious with amazingly quotable lines. I would cringe myself into a grave if something like that was rammed into Dark Souls.

I understand that politics and society is part of being human. I don't want fiction to shy away from that. There's a right and a wrong way to go about that though. I think we've now thoroughly established what is and isn't the right way to do that, at least from my perspective.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but I'm also willing to give any Dark Souls fan the benefit of the doubt.

[OrcsRLame]

Call me crazy, but I'm concerned with what practically happens in the real world, so I'm just more concerned with a pile of dead bodies than pontificating about the moral debate of Nazi-punching.

Good on you. Seriously.

I have not the time, energy or drive to try and enact real change concerning violent behavior. I will never be a cop, politician or activist. I am at best an idea guy. I like to point out ideas that I think are good or bad.

Philosophy is way more interesting to me than governance.

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Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but I'm also willing to give any Dark Souls fan the benefit of the doubt.

What part do you disagree with specifically? Genuinely curious. We've gone back and forth about what I think for awhile now, without getting into what you think. Also, my responses are going to get more sporadic. This artifact power isn't going to farm itself and mage tower is up.

[Wewlad]

Call me crazy, but I'm concerned with what practically happens in the real world, so I'm just more concerned with a pile of dead bodies than pontificating about the moral debate of Nazi-punching.

How about those who died at the nightclub? Are you able to comprehend the very apparent and obvious motive or will you try to act the apologist as most leftists did? That a big enough pile of bodies for you there?

Also stop trying to make everyone else out to be triggered when we're on a forum. It's a real sad attempt at turning the table.

[Dragon Claws]

Also stop trying to make everyone else out to be triggered when we're on a forum. It's a real sad attempt at turning the table.

Really, the only surprising thing is that it didn't happen sooner.

[Ariktu]

I do not think people are bothered by a diverse character.

I think they are bothered when it feels forced by outside forces and where the quality is not good.

[Ivanstone]

Its not diversity that's causing problems.

Jason Aaron could wipe his ass on paper and people would still read it. I'm not looking forward to figuring out my orders when he leaves Dr Strange and Thor.

Its because Marvel makes little attempt to appease their writers for the most part. Bendis is probably the lone exception.

Ed Brubaker delivered Marvel one of their biggest cash cows in recent memory and where is he now? Writing for Image. Every single Brubaker title that's come out in the past few years I wonder why its got an Image banner instead of an Icon banner. Maybe its what he wants but I can't help thinking that Marvel pushed him away.

If you push away all of your writers you get what you deserve. DC was getting stagnant, they knew it and they attempted to fix it. Rebirth gave them a decent kick in the pants at Marvel's expense. It may fall apart but at least its working for now.

Marvel also has a tendency to over-produce and over-price their comics. The industry is pretty much at the $3.99 price point but Marvel is "looking forward" by having random $4.99 comics. Admittedly that won't stop the X-men partisan from reflexively buying everything but most people are on fixed entertainment budgets. Their TPB policy also sucks. They under-produce and over-price their books. DC will always have a cash cow in the Batman but it helps that I can back order the entire N52 run and they have a decent price tag on it. Don't think I can say the same for any Marvel series.

[Astalnar]

Who would've thought that SJWs are all talk and no game? It's like they don't even care about the medium they spend so much time complaining over. All the way from comics to video games. Marvel is still not getting it. The problem is not diverse cast of characters, the problem are shitty stories that devolved into overpriced agitprop for progressive lunatics.

[Zoldor]

I have a friend who runs a comic book store. He's the guy I go to for all my comics. We have spoken at length about his business.

He says there are two pillars that hold up his store, Marvel, and DC - he would love Image et all to do better so he wouldn't rely on those two, but they are just not as popular as DC and Marvel.

He showed me his books and numbers, and the biggest thing that stood out was Marvel in the past two years, creating new number ones, twice. Charging two or three bucks more for them, and the continuing the story where it left off, just calling it a number one.

This paired with Marvel's events always being late, costing more than DC, and no, I don't hate the diversity, I love Spider Gwen and Lady Thor, but they are making characters just to fulfill check boxes. DC hadn't raised their prices last I checked, but even so - DC doesn't print new number ones every year or two.

Here's an example - we generally love Deadpool, last time he showed me the numbers, he had 5 seperate runs of Deadpool going - Main Deadpool, then Spidey and Deadpool, then Two different Deadpool Vs.

TLDR They are saturating with what they think will get them a lot of money, falling behind on events, making checks on checkboxes, making new number ones with nothing changing, and charging more for the product.

This is very much the problem. My local comic shop that I've been going to for 15ish or so years, I lived elsewhere before that, said the same thing. And we've seen the trend. The shop has been open since the late 80s. It is the general greed of the corporate comic owners at Marvel now, was DC at one point while Marvel was struggling hard. They see the money dump as many books with title characters that are attached to that fame, flood the market, churn out trash books, and everyone backs away. Out of all those movie goers so few are actual comic fans, less go out and pick up the books because they liked the movie and less continue to read beyond a couple issues.

[Moralgy]

Random question, is everything in the respective comic book universes cannon to each other or do they branch out into different stories that don't relate to each other what so ever.

[Noxx79]

Random question, is everything in the respective comic book universes cannon to each other or do they branch out into different stories that don't relate to each other what so ever.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It's all incredibly confusing and part of the reason comics are so difficult to get into.

[Zoldor]

Its not diversity that's causing problems.

Jason Aaron could wipe his ass on paper and people would still read it. I'm not looking forward to figuring out my orders when he leaves Dr Strange and Thor.

Its because Marvel makes little attempt to appease their writers for the most part. Bendis is probably the lone exception.

Ed Brubaker delivered Marvel one of their biggest cash cows in recent memory and where is he now? Writing for Image. Every single Brubaker title that's come out in the past few years I wonder why its got an Image banner instead of an Icon banner. Maybe its what he wants but I can't help thinking that Marvel pushed him away.

If you push away all of your writers you get what you deserve. DC was getting stagnant, they knew it and they attempted to fix it. Rebirth gave them a decent kick in the pants at Marvel's expense. It may fall apart but at least its working for now.

Marvel also has a tendency to over-produce and over-price their comics. The industry is pretty much at the $3.99 price point but Marvel is "looking forward" by having random $4.99 comics. Admittedly that won't stop the X-men partisan from reflexively buying everything but most people are on fixed entertainment budgets. Their TPB policy also sucks. They under-produce and over-price their books. DC will always have a cash cow in the Batman but it helps that I can back order the entire N52 run and they have a decent price tag on it. Don't think I can say the same for any Marvel series.

I see this a lot with Marvel as well. How many writers do they attempt to poach from say Image, as that writer gets a great story, take Lemire for example, put him on a ton of titles, burn him out and be pissed when his 10th hero book doesn't sell. They are a grinder on writers it seems like. Image gives so much more freedom to their writers and artists it seems like, with things like Walking Dead and Invincible carrying their cash cow. I think it has a lot to do with Writers and Artists who've done a lot in the businesses generally being in charge at Image and DC, where Marvel has new masters breathing down on all these guys.

Snyder is another one, my god how many titles can the guy write, thankfully he's at DC and it is a tad more limited.

[Immitis]

less "diversity ruining sales" and more "too many comics ruining sales" although diversity is partially a reason why there were too many comics as alot of c and d list characters recently got new series and new marketing, but secret wars as a whole is mostly to blame for that since it rebooted so many series and comic sales started dropping right after it ended, however female thor is marvels 2nd best selling character behind spider-man and alot of marvels top selling books right now star "diverse" characters, the way he "clarified" his comment made it seem more like what he meant in general was new characters period werent needed right now, they need to take whats popular now and cut down on all the excess books and focus on whats doing well.

i find it very funny and ironic that like half the comments in here reference female thor and riri when those characters are so popular lol