What Is The World Of Warcraft Experience Like For Gamers Who Are Women?

[micwini]

Keep your feministic taint to your own offtopic forums. Don't contaminate these forums with your bullshit.
Reported for flamebaiting.

[Pum]

Never had a good experience with a female WoW player, soz.

[Gadzooks]

Came across this on Forbes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#7e2c3087d884



What do you make of this?
Do you think this expert is accurate in this assessment?

I definitely agree with the first point. I'm shocked at how people act on voice chat in particular. It kills the experience when you see how some people act.

I've seen women treated all along the spectrum - from being stalked, to taking over and ruling guilds with a pinky. Women specifically have never caused me issues while playing WoW, or any other game - but then, I wasn't constantly trying to sext them during raids, and just treated them as normal people, with a common interest in the game. And yes, some women work the situation outrageously - because boobs = some dude will buy you anything you want, in the hopes of touching said boobs.

But, most of the problems I remember over women, were mostly caused by guys - which happens anywhere girls and boys are mixed. Some get it, some don't. I've seen it a lot of shit in a lot of games over the years, the worst being the grooming of pre-teens on a minecraft server by a guy in his mid twenties. I've seen friendships end because of competition for a girl in WOW, when she really was married, and stringing both of them along. (She got kicked from our guild.)

It's a transitional phase for gaming. Both sides are learning to deal with each other, and yes, there's a lot of guys who just. don't. get. it. But you can say that in any context these days - at work, online, in school - name it, and you'll find a guy - and gals - who don't get it.

And yeah, it was always amusing to get /danced at, or /whispered "hey babe" by clueless dudes who didn't know I was a dude. I've played both sexes on my human characters, mostly because I think the female model looked better most of the time - but that never stopped the creeps from thinking I was a woman.

And...Goldshire on RP realms. There's your problem, not how women are treated.

[FelPlague]

Came across this on Forbes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#7e2c3087d884



What do you make of this?
Do you think this expert is accurate in this assessment?

I definitely agree with the first point. I'm shocked at how people act on voice chat in particular. It kills the experience when you see how some people act.

what is different?
its abit easier to get free shit, you just need to deal with abit of lame flirting and creeps
other then that its the exact same

btw again, what the utter fuck is a "world of warcraft expert" please dont call her and expert

[Underverse]

Men are more likely to help women, and are also more likely to treat them like they need help. These go hand in hand. For better or for worse, women get special treatment and special attention, not just in games but in society at large.

And, it's not just women. Anyone, male or female, who looks or sounds young/neotenous/weak - as many women, and some men, do - will be treated more kindly and with more paternalism. It's not a bad thing if you understand how people view you, and how you can use it to your advantage. Recognize the support structure you have without needing to lift a finger. That's power.

[Zigrifid]

"Answer by Julie Anne Exter, World of Warcraft expert"............. world of warcraft expert !

[Marrilaife]

Gamers don't really care about gender and other identity stuff. The only thing that matters is that if you are good or bad. And since there are still many single male gamers they really are quite welcoming towards females who share their passion.

You're very idealistic or you're just lucky to never have encountered bad gender-related incidents in games, which I envy you.

I've seen a mix of everything during the years I play. Majority of that was normal, yeah. Most guilds didn't treat people different based on gender or nationality, raiding guilds mostly cared are you cutting it skill wise or not. But I've seen both sides of the coin, assuming all of that is imagination is naive. I've seen women who abused being women to get free stuff or get boosted by men drooling over them. I've seen men being creeps towards female players or assumed female players without these players provoking them towards creepy behaviour. I've seen sexist men claiming "no girls allowed in my guild" "all gamer girls suck, make drama, flirt and break guilds apart". All these exist, it's not all black and white.

Majority of my experiences were neutral, but the outstanding ones are more memorable. And it's not all fault of 1 gender, both men who are creeps or think "all girls suck" are at fault as much as the girls who play damsel in distress and try to get stuff through flirting and manipulation rather than earn it legit. Yes, I've seen females that wrapped men around their finger to get a raid spot, free boosts, free items and so on. And I've seen men who after experiencing one of these got prejudiced towards "gamer girls" in general. Even though majority of females I've met weren't this kind of vixen type and just wanted to play the game in peace.

Even if girls "on average" are less competitive than men, there are so many skill levels, content types and difficulties in wow, that everyone can find something for themselves. Majority of the playerbase of any gender isn't playing this game at the cutting edge anyway either in pvp or pve. And "being competitive" can be both a boon and a drawback. Usually people think being competitive = being a better player, but if you ask all the dps whores and the padlords who never do any jobs or mechanics, they will say they are doing everything to maximize their dps and top the meters and in their eyes that is what counts as "being competitive". Being a teamplayer is what's important, but rare, and it applies to both genders. Everyone can plant themselves in some "safe spot" and try to do their rotation expecting everyone else to work around them (that doesn't only apply to raiders, also to these pvpers who expect the whole team to "peel off them").

[murbaez]

I haven't really experienced this tbh. I've played with many female gamers. One is my guild master and raid leader, she is DPS. I'm in 2 guilds atm tho. I raid with both. Out of all the healers in both of those guilds, only 2 of them are healers. 1 is a main tank in one of the guilds. Majority of other females are dps. Of the, on average between 2 groups, 40 raiders, about 15 of them are females. So not majority, but a fair amount. Only 2 of them, again, are healers. There is one who off heals sometimes, rarely. Majority of them are hunters actually, or at least 6 of them are.

In older expansions, we had roughly the same percentage of females as healers. Usually maybe 1 or 2, but not the majority of them ever.

[Raysz]

Anyone who thinks the experience isn't different, pretend to be a gal on some character and see for yourself.

Exactly. I'm a guy but I play a lot of female characters (female night elves mostly, best aesthetics imo/animations) and every now and then I get whispers asking me if I'm a girl irl, or offers for help/gold.
To be fair, that isn't as common as it was several years ago but it still happens now and then.

[Grimfrost]

"mansplaining" bs article

[Lilija]

You're very idealistic or you're just lucky to never have encountered bad gender-related incidents in games, which I envy you.

I have but it's no different from what my boyfriend experiences as a gamer. Incidents happen to everyone - regardless of gender. It will be about gender only if you make it about gender.

I've seen a mix of everything during the years I play. Majority of that was normal, yeah. Most guilds didn't treat people different based on gender or nationality, raiding guilds mostly cared are you cutting it skill wise or not. But I've seen both sides of the coin, assuming all of that is imagination is naive. I've seen women who abused being women to get free stuff or get boosted by men drooling over them. I've seen men being creeps towards female players or assumed female players without these players provoking them towards creepy behaviour. I've seen sexist men claiming "no girls allowed in my guild" "all gamer girls suck, make drama, flirt and break guilds apart". All these exist, it's not all black and white.

Yes, it does but it's marginal. If you don't like a person for any reason - don't play with them. The majority of gamers are really nice people and you don't have to be stuck with those who chose act in a way that doesn't suit you. I've left guilds because I didn't like the atmosphere. It wasn't gendered. Some people simply don't fit some groups. It's no big deal.

Majority of my experiences were neutral, but the outstanding ones are more memorable. And it's not all fault of 1 gender, both men who are creeps or think "all girls suck" are at fault as much as the girls who play damsel in distress and try to get stuff through flirting and manipulation rather than earn it legit. Yes, I've seen females that wrapped men around their finger to get a raid spot, free boosts, free items and so on. And I've seen men who after experiencing one of these got prejudiced towards "gamer girls" in general. Even though majority of females I've met weren't this kind of vixen type and just wanted to play the game in peace.

Well, if someone judges whole gender based on one encounter, they are being silly. Yes, I've met those damsel girls. Irritated me as hell - tried to not play with them as soon as possible. But there were guys whom I wanted to stab thru the monitor as well. It's not gendered - some people are just annoying.

[Saucerian]

You misspelled 'online game with mainly young male audience'.

Apropos, my guild from Classic had a woman in her 50s who'd reciprocate the jocularity. I think she enjoyed the attention.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I personally had more issues because of my gender than probably most women have gotten, it may have just been the realm that I was on at the time, and the raid/hardcore crowd that existed there at the time. It's different now, though. While it has been getting a bit worse recently, for a long while (over Cata, MoP, and the beginning of WoD) it has been really nice for me and not having nearly any troubles with guys.

[Sierra85]

feminists love to talk about the gender inequality in mmo's.

[Dyslexyc]

My wife and I have been playing WoW together for 10 years now, and in those 10 years I've seen some pretty crazy stuff happen to her and other women we've played online games with. These are a few experiences just from playing WoW, if I expanded my reply to include the 3 years we played Dota 2 I could write a book on neckbeards and MOBAs.

- During TBC a guildie gave her gold for her epic flying, followed it up with a plane ticket from Canada to NYC and when she declined his overture he hacked her account and deleted her characters.
- During Mythic EN prog back in Oct/Nov one of the women in our guild got an anonymous in-game mail full of misogynistic vitriol shaming her for having a sexual sense of humor. None of the guys in that same guild ever got flak for making sexually charged jokes. Never did find out who sent it to her, but it was totally uncalled for.
- When trying to find a new home for Nighthold progression, my partner and I joined a guild where she was berated by a group of 3 players telling her all women who played wow like anal sex. They then followed that up asking her about her sexual history and whether anal was something she engaged in. When she asked them to stop, they verbally berated her both in gchat and guild discord. We left the guild the same day. Gotta love players with permutations of "cuck" in their name.

This doesn't even include the countless times she's been added to people's b.net friends and messaged by strange men who barely know her because she "sounds hot". If she defends herself, she can't take a joke or needs to go back to the kitchen. If she rebuffs their advances, she's ugly and fat. If I speak up on her behalf, I'm a white knight.

People can pretend the issues don't relate to gender and that assholes affect everyone equally, but that ignores the fact that the online gaming experience is wildly different for men vs. women. I've seen it first-hand for the better part of a decade.

[elaina]

I'm a woman and my anecdotal experience is exactly the same as @woozie21 described. And that person who wrote the article also points out her anecdotal experience which is like from another dimention compared to my anecdotal experience.

People experience what they experience and those experienced will differ. However, this media, clickbait obsession with female oppression is unhealthy. Gamers don't really care about gender and other identity stuff. The only thing that matters is that if you are good or bad. And since there are still many single male gamers they really are quite welcoming towards females who share their passion. When I sometimes chatted with guys a bit they often told me it's a shame there aren't more girls like me around them cause they really find it hard to find their significant other. And I didn't take it as any kind of offer since it was clear from the start that I'm in a relationship. In fact it was quite nice to hear that another human being finds something attractive in me - not in sexual or romantic way really but just another human being they can relate to. This whole social justice crap really takes a lot from simple human relations. If you assume that everyone around wants to hurt you, you will be hurt regardless of what they do. And if you don't assume people have something bad in mind each time you interact with them you might discover there are tons of nice people who just need a little bit of encouragement to be themselves.

To be perfectly honest, there is so little controversy in the OP that I'm a bit dumbfounded people are even debating it, and doing so seems blatantly ignorant to reality. Especially since it is all largely experiential which is not really up for debate anyway, barring a couple of her conclusions. The only clickbaity thing about the article is that it is reposted from Quora in Forbes. For those complaining about use of the word expert, I have no idea how Quora works but I would not be surprised if it has a specific more common usage there, especially since to non WoW players and certainly people who don't game much, all of us would almost assuredly be 'experts' in some relative regard.

Gamers most certainly care about gender and identity politics or else they would not be so vehemently protesting for or against it on these forums. Not caring is going "meh" and going about your day instead of getting triggered that people are speaking on behalf of something as basic as gender equality.

In your personal story, were the male gamers wanting more female gamers because they wanted equality across the sexes or because they just wanted more women around? Hmm.

Your "in a relationship" statement is also interesting to me as, in my experience, there are a ton of guys who don't give a shit about your relationship status and will creep/harass you regardless of any such limitation. An exception to this would be if your partner is literally in the guild, in which case they might hold off out of respect for the other person, not out of respect for you.

Like what?

Have you been reading the thread? Multiple personal accounts, presumably from men even since those are your favorite, are detailed beneath your post and throughout this thread. Want me to name names and quote stuff? Furthermore if we're strictly speaking on being treated differently, the burden of proof is much greater for saying everything is the same. Any instance of differential treatment at all (many have been listed here) would instantly debunk your claim. If you have not personally experienced this, that is well and fine, but I imagine you are an outlier.

You do know that men get much more threats and harrasement on the internet than women? Online harrasement isn't a gender issue and if you try to make it so you are only doing harm.

Yeah what is your source here? The only way this is true is on a per-case basis, because of limited female representation in the gaming world. Online harassment on the basis of gender is, by definition, a gender issue. I've been in guilds where the GL would offer loot to female raiders (secretly via loot council) in exchange for pictures/favors.

Have you tried getting the same conversation with guys? You know what's the difference? Guys don't make it into an issue!

Not the same thing. And I doubt very many guys are seriously trying to send unsolicited sexts to other male raiders in whispers in the middle of raids.

Or maybe try talking to all the people. You might actually get the whole picture - not the half of it.

This is just stupid. Since "harassment / unequal treatment of women" doesn't apply to guys, all they can speak on is that which makes it out into public (which many in this thread have) or that which they do themselves (and recognize) in private to others.

[Marrilaife]

I've left guilds because I didn't like the atmosphere. It wasn't gendered. Some people simply don't fit some groups. It's no big deal.

Yeah, once I indeed left a guild because the GM was saying girls are stupid and bashing on them, so ofc that influences the atmosphere in the whole guild, people picking at you because they know GM won't frown upon them, and I've gotten creepy whispers from one of their core raiders too, I've had enough and I left. 2 months later I heard they disbanded because of some drama.

I'm far from claiming every single issue is gender related, most of them are not, I'm just saying they do exist, even if fairly rare in the overall picture.

There's a big difference between a guild where the atmosphere is just anti-PC with sexist, racist and nationality based jokes flying left and right but no one means them seriously, and a guild where someone is being mistreated, the latter one could be for various reasons, it's not always gender related either. I've seen cases of blatant favouritism / discrimination and most of them weren't gender related either. Doesn't mean no issue ever is gender related. It's a small % but non 0.

[Demeia]

Am i the only one that finds that the women i play with in this game are usually guild leaders or high ranking officers?

Not once have i seen any that have been treated badly or had anyone being condescending to them. Maybe it says more about the people i choose to surround myself with than the rest of the player base but i don't know. At the moment the guild i am in has the most openly gay raid leader you will probably ever find so if any crude jokes are going to be made they are probably by him and about him.

Well, everyone's experience is different. I'm pretty much in your camp. But we're a much older crowd of players (in my guild).

Honestly, my experience with women players is that they a) are dps and b) like consider beholder-type creatures "cute" (some exceptions apply). Honestly not sure what all the fuss about "mansplaining" is. Probably not good to get so worked up over a term.

I certainly don't agree that everyone should be mean to everyone else to "toughen them up". That just seems insane. I'd rather treat people the way I would want to be treated--which is with respect and courtesy.

[RayenDark]

So if everyone knows you’re a “real” girl (yes, it’s actually pretty common for guys to play female characters), it’s sort of like wolves circling a straggling sheep.

This is a load of crap. I've never felt like a 'sheep' among the guys I play with. This chick is in la la land or something.

Psychologically, I’m not sure why this is — you could draw parallels with women’s higher inclination to be nurturers and caregivers, or maybe that damage dealing roles are more “competitive”, which may not appeal to women.

I know just as many DPS raiding females as I do healing-tanks being the only real outlying.

Maybe I'm odd being a female Melee Dps/Tank OS player but it will be a very cold day on Azeroth when I heal anything. Healing just isn't interesting to me.

[elaina]

Well, everyone's experience is different. I'm pretty much in your camp. But we're a much older crowd of players (in my guild).

Honestly, my experience with women players is that they a) are dps and b) like consider beholder-type creatures "cute" (some exceptions apply). Honestly not sure what all the fuss about "mansplaining" is. Probably not good to get so worked up over a term.

I certainly don't agree that everyone should be mean to everyone else to "toughen them up". That just seems insane. I'd rather treat people the way I would want to be treated--which is with respect and courtesy.

Thank you. Not sure why people are so quick to defend harassment or claim it doesn't exist because it doesn't happen to them.