Hardest, Most Notorious 5man instances in WOW

[Vaelorian]

BM was horrible, did it prenerf on a warrior(tank) and warlock and both ways was ugly. Arc was bad unless you had 2 CC or a paly tank but every heroic in BC was made a joke with a paly tank. I never really had issue with Grim Batol, it was all about using the drakes right at the beginning. CoN is tough but enjoyable because it is a bit of a throw back instance. I would throw the Original Tribute Run for Dire Maul North in the list, prenerfs and actually doing LBRS in a 5man for the quests early in Vanilla(pre MC gear).

Honestly I never had any issues with any dungeon. But that comes with being with a really nice guild full with levelheaded guys/girls who also are pretty skilled. So that makes everything smooth. But you can ofcourse notice a difference in terms of pugs you join. Grim Batol was indeed not that hard but the bosses had mechanics that would/could oneshot you or almost oneshot you but you needed to be 100% health. Atleast prenerf. And that made is pugunfriendly. So many people who just couldn't pay attention to anything but their castbars....died again and again... and then you wipe. I remember using every cooldown I had at every pack and boss until the instanced ended and sometimes that was just not enough. (healer)

[Super Kami Dende]

I can see this working on the easier heroics, but not the hardest ones.

Strangely it worked better in things like Shattered Halls and Slabs than it did in Underbog/Coilfang. Since there was a lot of Magic Damage in those, yet Prot pallies were Physical damage beasts in TBC with Block builds.

[Foj]

just aggravating when you had that one guy who fucked everything up since there were a lot of mechanics or opportunities for one person to just ruin it for the rest of the group

That was the significantly unfun thing about Cataclysm dungeons.

Even the trash packs were tedious that way in ZA/ZG. Break CC on "that mob" (before Blizzard made CC much harder to break) and it's time to corpse walk ... again.

[Black Jack]

i feel like black morass for bc was the hardest , i didnt feel shattered halls was that difficult

[Halyon]

True, but I'd still consider that an entry requirement as in "you must be this tall to get to the finish line".

I agree with you on the rewards though. I never quite understood Blizzards obsession with "we made this, you have to like it and if you don't, we'll bribe you." They could have simply made the dragons optional in a patch and turn it into an actual dungeon.

Yeah, but then they'd have to do actual work instead of just hauling some unused drake models out and dust them off...shove them in a bag.

Like I said though, I've otherwise not had any real trouble getting through dungeon...other than maybe Culling of Stratholme in the Cavern of Time when I tried healing on my paladin instead of tanking...that was super painful because the tank was also godawful.

Guess I've been super-lucky.

[Sensimilla]

I choose Cata dungeon Halls of Origination - I remember people leaving right after they got in. It was so long and so hard. The first boss where you had to jump down to click on the levers.... Ugh.

Although I loved the architechure, I havn't been there since cataclysm.

[Matthias]

Kind of sad how even with M+ Dungeons aren't as challenging as they were in TBC unless you do an insanely high key that grants no reward aside from epeen.

If you pugg'd a Heroic in TBC (and Vanilla) you weren't even sure if you would clear it. Just the pull on trash mobs could be lethal. And if someone left the group you either had to disband or hearth out to find a replacement. Often you would have to pack up and try tomorrow. This meant content just naturally lasted longer since it wasn't a guaruntee you would AoE your way through things.

Even pugging a 10 now or a 15 last patch, wasn't too difficult, sure you may not make the timer, but depending on the affixes stuff isn't that hard. I don't think I've had 10 pugs fail to clear yet in Legion.

[Puri]

I'D say halls of lighting was one of the easier wrath dungeons

Loken was the killer boss until you would outgear him (which was ridiculously fast in wotlk). People always forget that even wotlk dungeons were challenging when you did them with approriate gear (<185).

https://www.engadget.com/2008/12/04/...b-in-the-game/

And that's why a list like that is completely pointless, as xpacs lasted two to three years, in which the dungeons itself changed (nerf or buff), classes were changed, and most obviously your gear changed. To name a single dungeon without any timeframe give is pointless.

[Vaelorian]

Kind of sad how even with M+ Dungeons aren't as challenging as they were in TBC unless you do an insanely high key that grants no reward aside from epeen.

If you pugg'd a Heroic in TBC (and Vanilla) you weren't even sure if you would clear it. Just the pull on trash mobs could be lethal. And if someone left the group you either had to disband or hearth out to find a replacement. Often you would have to pack up and try tomorrow. This meant content just naturally lasted longer since it wasn't a guaruntee you would AoE your way through things.

Even pugging a 10 now or a 15 last patch, wasn't too difficult, sure you may not make the timer, but depending on the affixes stuff isn't that hard. I don't think I've had 10 pugs fail to clear yet in Legion.

QFT - no really this was how it was and how todays dungeons aren't that hard. You know that the only reason Mythic+ is hard is because the timer. You want those 3 lootchests. If there are less, people just pop out of the party and try again elsewhere. "Not worth the time wiping"

Well the affix that we had the week before... was really really hard. But doable still with the right setup/high geared people.

- - - Updated - - -

Loken was the killer boss until you would outgear him (which was ridiculously fast in wotlk). People always forget that even wotlk dungeons were challenging when you did them with approriate gear (<185).

https://www.engadget.com/2008/12/04/...b-in-the-game/

Sorry mate but that is just not true. Yes Loken may have been the killer boss. But only because his ability is a oneshot on heroic in blue gear. Still once you know that you don't want to be standing in his AoE thingy... you easily EASILY kill him. I wonder how many kills elevators have made. I would think that would rival Lokens kill streak.

WOTLK dungeons were perceived (right from the get go) as idiotic simpleton dungeons. All of them were piss poor AOE fests. People riotted on the forum. Probably why we got Halls of Reflection etc. Which was NOT a difficult dungeon AT ALL. People just couldn't understand the need to stay out of sight of mobs and could not interrupt casters. Here the term "wrath babies" came into being as they did not know how to interrupt/use CC when required or kill the caster first. Also gear mattered here, the itemlevel required to enter this was too low (and people had BoE gear in their bags that helped them get in).

[Curlyfry]

This sounds fun.

Vanilla: Strat
BC: Arcatraz
Wrath: None, all heroics in Wrath were a joke. I saw a lot of comments saying before you geared them Halls of Lightning was hard, but thats false. Hell all of t7 raids were cleared in players wearing t6. I had 0 issue with any heroic and I did all within the first week on farm daily.
Cataclysm: WITHOUT A DOUBT HEROIC TOL'VIR God DAMN that last boss on Heroic during the first week of Cata was fucking hell.
MoP: Shado-Pan on Challenge mode, heroics were easy.
WoD: Upper Blackrock Spire
Legion: Cathedral of Eternal Night

[chewie49]

vanilla = lbrs cause it'd take like 5 hours to complete and multiple party members who would come for an hour or two then leave and you'd have to go to town and find more

bc = heroic shattered halls for sure, though to be fair, all the H. instances were challenging, ah the good ole days

wrath = h. halls of reflection

cata = that one where every noob group got owned and everyone blamed each other then quit...what was it uhhhh the one where you'd fly dragons at one point and bomb mobs like 1/3 through the dungeon, also that one with the time dragon at the end could be a pain with a bad group too...

mop = drawing a blank here, didnt really have problems with any of them

wod = ya grim rail was a pain in the butt with a noob group, closest thing to hard in that xpac

legion = i havent played it enough to know, so i guess the hardest thing for me in this expac is being an adult and not having time to raid. so the fact its not alt friendly has defeated my sub

[Phlegethon]

Any bc heroic was hell. Shadow labs probably the worst. Anything wrath onwards is cake and requires 0 skill to finish

Vanilla I would add strat and scholo (maybe UBRS 10 man too)
Cata they tried again but nerfed it rather fast.

[Deleted]

The Oculus

#deadhorse

[Matthias]

QFT - no really this was how it was and how todays dungeons aren't that hard. You know that the only reason Mythic+ is hard is because the timer. You want those 3 lootchests. If there are less, people just pop out of the party and try again elsewhere. "Not worth the time wiping"

Well the affix that we had the week before... was really really hard. But doable still with the right setup/high geared people.

- - - Updated - - -


Sorry mate but that is just not true. Yes Loken may have been the killer boss. But only because his ability is a oneshot on heroic in blue gear. Still once you know that you don't want to be standing in his AoE thingy... you easily EASILY kill him. I wonder how many kills elevators have made. I would think that would rival Lokens kill streak.

WOTLK dungeons were perceived (right from the get go) as idiotic simpleton dungeons. All of them were piss poor AOE fests. People riotted on the forum. Probably why we got Halls of Reflection etc. Which was NOT a difficult dungeon AT ALL. People just couldn't understand the need to stay out of sight of mobs and could not interrupt casters. Here the term "wrath babies" came into being as they did not know how to interrupt/use CC when required or kill the caster first. Also gear mattered here, the itemlevel required to enter this was too low (and people had BoE gear in their bags that helped them get in).

Yea Loken was not hard at all, he was just the only dungeon boss with a one shot mechanic that forced you to pay attention. I always say Blizz shot themselves in the foot in WoTLK. Just because you give every tank and DPS the ability to AoE doesn't mean AoEing down everything should be an option. Even a Paladin tank in TBC couldn't just tank a 6 back in Heroic Shattered Halls because the raw damage would kill him. I can understand Blizz wanting to make threat less of an issue, but removing the need for CC was a massive mistake.

It was so amusing doing a pug 25 man Razuvious, you would always hit a wall their because most Priest didn't know how to Mind Control, because they never had to. Had Heroics been a proper challenge they would have learned how to use such a tool.

[Vaelorian]

It was so amusing doing a pug 25 man Razuvious, you would always hit a wall their because most Priest didn't know how to Mind Control, because they never had to. Had Heroics been a proper challenge they would have learned how to use such a tool.

And to think that naxx40 was far more insane with LoS tactics and insane agro on the priests who were MCing in turns to avoid the diminishing return on MC

[Puri]

Sorry mate but that is just not true. Yes Loken may have been the killer boss. But only because his ability is a oneshot on heroic in blue gear. Still once you know that you don't want to be standing in his AoE thingy... you easily EASILY kill him. I wonder how many kills elevators have made. I would think that would rival Lokens kill streak.

WOTLK dungeons were perceived (right from the get go) as idiotic simpleton dungeons. All of them were piss poor AOE fests. People riotted on the forum. Probably why we got Halls of Reflection etc. Which was NOT a difficult dungeon AT ALL. People just couldn't understand the need to stay out of sight of mobs and could not interrupt casters. Here the term "wrath babies" came into being as they did not know how to interrupt/use CC when required or kill the caster first. Also gear mattered here, the itemlevel required to enter this was too low (and people had BoE gear in their bags that helped them get in).

Sorry mate but that's just nonsense. Nobody did the more challenging dungeons (usually the level 80 dungeons) when they were the heroic daily, and that included besides HoL also Azjol-Nerub, were groups had problem killing the waves before the first boss. And funnily Oculus was considered one of the easier dungeons, while when they introduced the automatic matchmaking LFD system mid-wrath it somehow was considered one of the harder dungeons.

Sure you could gear up very quickly, because T6 was damage wise not worse than T7/10, so you could breeze through the 10 player content. But that doesn't change the fact that in blue gear heroics were challenging. No, not as challenging as they heroics were in BC, but also not the AoE fest that people remember when they breezed through the dungeons with 220+ gear in auto queues.

[Matthias]

Sorry mate but that's just nonsense. Nobody did the more challenging dungeons (usually the level 80 dungeons) when they were the heroic daily, and that included besides HoL also Azjol-Nerub, were groups had problem killing the waves before the first boss. And funnily Oculus was considered one of the easier dungeons, while when they introduced the automatic matchmaking LFD system mid-wrath it somehow was considered one of the harder dungeons.

Sure you could gear up very quickly, because T6 was damage wise not worse than T7/10, so you could breeze through the 10 player content. But that doesn't change the fact that in blue gear heroics were challenging. No, not as challenging as they heroics were in BC, but also not the AoE fest that people remember when they breezed through the dungeons with 220+ gear in auto queues.

I'm sorry, but I think that's nuts. I don't think I ever walked into a dungeon in WoTLK that I didn't clear aside from Halls of Reflection. Yes even in blue gear a dungeon would take like 20 minutes. Where as pugging a dungeon in TBC normally took at least an hour. Loken had an AoE you had to freakin run from, that's it.

Trash was not a hard, and bosses were not hard either, sure there could be a hiccup, but you were going to clear the place. This is why when Cata Heroics required CC and bosses had actual mechanics everyone lost their minds.

[Vaelorian]

Sorry mate but that's just nonsense. Nobody did the more challenging dungeons (usually the level 80 dungeons) when they were the heroic daily, and that included besides HoL also Azjol-Nerub, were groups had problem killing the waves before the first boss. And funnily Oculus was considered one of the easier dungeons, while when they introduced the automatic matchmaking LFD system mid-wrath it somehow was considered one of the harder dungeons.

Huh? What? No one did the more challenging dungeons? What were the more challenging dungeons? Because before the last 3 came (and those are not hard either but consiberably harder then the former) all dungeons were piss easy. I was running them with either in various combo's that did or did not include a tank or healer. Later on in the max tier (yeah you're probably going to nitpick into this sentence as "overpowered and should be overpowered") me and a fury warrior duo'd the heroics as dps. Only in PUGS at times did you run into trouble. The daily dungeons were done religiously by everyone and their grandma. Occulus was never popular and if that was the case, it would mostly not be done even by guildgroups. Because of the hassle and unfun dragons at the end.
Sure I was in one of the better guilds in the world at that time. Sure you may have not. But I pugged the shit out of WOTLK to even feel like I was making a difference as a healer. And as a way to recruit people. And no while you may have had another experience, I lived on the forum mmo champion or official or even EJ. It was a riot that dungeons were that easy.

Sure you could gear up very quickly, because T6 was damage wise not worse than T7/10, so you could breeze through the 10 player content. But that doesn't change the fact that in blue gear heroics were challenging. No, not as challenging as they heroics were in BC, but also not the AoE fest that people remember when they breezed through the dungeons with 220+ gear in auto queues.

This makes sense. Yeah you could not ... well we could AoE right off the bat as I said... good guild... But in pugs it was more difficult to only AoE. And that lay solely with the healer and tank. But once you had a few pieces of heroic gear - it became that which was an AoE fest. It only became easier and easier. It was instantly posted on the forum that CC was NOT a thing in these dungeons. If you recall... no one did it. Well we did it the first dungeon as a guild. And when we saw what kind of content we were given... quit CCing instantly.

[Puri]

Huh? What? No one did the more challenging dungeons? What were the more challenging dungeons?

I'm sorry, but I think that's nuts. I don't think I ever walked into a dungeon in WoTLK that I didn't clear aside from Halls of Reflection. Yes even in blue gear a dungeon would take like 20 minutes. Where as pugging a dungeon in TBC normally took at least an hour. Loken had an AoE you had to freakin run from, that's it.

Trash was not a hard, and bosses were not hard either, sure there could be a hiccup, but you were going to clear the place. This is why when Cata Heroics required CC and bosses had actual mechanics everyone lost their minds.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. Look at the comments on wowhead from that time, and I am not talking about the achievement comments:
AnzjolNerub:
"Just tried this with a reasonable group. [...] We didn't even FIGHT the first boss."
"I just went for my first heroic and the scripted pulls at the gate are BRUTAL"
"Do not be fooled by the easyness of the normal difficulty[...]we didnt get past the first boss"

Halls of Lightning
"With a good group, it's anywhere between 35-45 minutes. With a bad group/slacking DPS/bad luck on the trash/Loken whipes it can well take over an hour and 30 minutes(been there done that)"

Utgard Pinnacle
"every boss encounter has loads of spike damage (except the first) we wiped like butter >.<"
" ive done it 5 times but everyone leaves when we wipe once on the first boss cause i cant kill the adds fast enough"

[Jimson]

Vanilla: I didn't play until BC launch, so all my memories are from then on.

Sunken Temple was always a pain with its levels and its statues and all that jazz.

Wailing Caverns, with "The Leap." Oh, you jumped a little early? Have fun on the (seemingly) endless run back!

BC: SLabs and Shattered Halls. I think people forget that Horde pallies had to level from 1 so there wasn't a ton of them available to tank heroics in the first couple months. Having a warrior, with their ONE AoE ability, do the gauntlet was torturous. Murmur was in a class all his own. He was huge (the largest mob I'd ever seen in a dungeon to that point), all his abilities hit like a truck...

Wrath: HoL was rough at the beginning depending on your healer. If you had a decent AoE healer or good DPS you could disregard the circle. If you didn't it was bye bye. Those tall mobs that pulled in packs of 2 and cast a sleep. The first boss who patted around and hit like a beast in his DPS stance. The gd gauntlet of fire guys going to the forge. The 3 ICC heroics were tough but doable. I remember wiping over and over on the Black Knight in ToC heroic.

Cata: Grim Batol was relatively hard at the start of the expansion. CC helped. SFK's first boss and that asphyxiate...

MoP: Hmm, I don't remember any heroic being particularly hard here. I hated Shado-Pan temple, but that wasn't due to its difficulty, place just sucked. I suspect the hard dungeons from here on are challenge/mythic+.

WoD: Grimrail Depot? I have very vague memories of doing any dungeons in WoD, for some reason. I assume they were all so terrible I wiped them from my memory.

Legion: I've only done a few Mythic+ beyond 5, so I can't say that any of them are incredibly hard. At appropriate gear level, mythic Kara was tough the first time through.