2023-24 NHL Season Thread.

[Stommped]

It's still professionals vs professionals, instead of professionals vs. amateurs.

I think we all know part of the reason the League doesn't want players to attend the Olympics is so Bettman can promote his garbage World Cup tournament.

I think hockey is a risky enough sport that it's not unreasonable for he and the owners not to want to risk losing revenue for their games, the Tavares injury was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Armourboy]

It's still professionals vs professionals, instead of professionals vs. amateurs.

I think we all know part of the reason the League doesn't want players to attend the Olympics is so Bettman can promote his garbage World Cup tournament.

I don't think the World Cup has anything to do with it. I think there is a set of owners hate the mess it creates with the season, and because the last thing they want is their entire season shot because something crazy happened and they lost a star player. Insurance covers the pay, doesn't do crap to replace that skill on the ice.

Frankly if I was an owner I would probably have the same feelings. Tbh I think most of the owners that are supporting their players in the thing are only doing it because they don't want to risk pissing off their superstar. If Ovi wasn't Ovi, Washington's owner would probably give two shits about whether he wanted to play or not.

I think whst it boils down to is a battle of who controls hockey. The IOC pissed in the NHL'S Cheerios when it refused to pay the insurance in 2013, and since then it's just been a pissing contest between the two.

[Greeney]

International sports events always trump club leagues.

What major sport besides Soccer?
Rugby / Volleyball? Sure, but I don't consider those major sports.

I would argue Canadians also think like this, at least the majority. Maybe not as overwhelmingly as elsewhere, but still...

Nope. For Canada the most popular sports are Hockey -> Baseball -> Football (US) -> Basketball -> Soccer
For US it's Football -> Basketball / Baseball (depends on State) -> Hockey -> Soccer
Highest competition for our big 4 mass-team sports are always intra North America.
Biggest achievements to us are Stanely Cup, World Series, Superbowl, whatever the Basketball championship that Lebron James always wins, and World Cup.

https://www.nhl.com/news/chicago-tri...c-gold/c-19810

Even these guys can't say one way or another about olympic vs stanley. Although one needs to take into account that they are working for the NHL and that interview was done by NHL... so slight bias might be existing.

Sure they could, he was just being politically correct. If he didn't win either and could compete for one he would choose the Stanley Cup. I told you earlier any North American dreams of the cup when they think of the ultimate prize and he even used that phrase in the story. Also... '"As an NHL player, it’s the highest professional level, and I’d say the Olympics is the next thing," he said.'

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That World Cup was a joke.

Yes.

Guys had had a half year complete break from ice and ice hockey, then they skate for a week, play three games with ridiculous teams like Team Europe and Team NA. And no, I'm not bitter because Finland was completely shit there. The whole tournament was poop. They should play a lot more games especially when the players haven't played for that long time.

Yes. However a team like Belarus is no less of a joke and team NA/Europe are far more competitive in roster than most Olympic teams.
Just as few games during Olympics.

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I think hockey is a risky enough sport that it's not unreasonable for he and the owners not to want to risk losing revenue for their games, the Tavares injury was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

Which is bullshit too, because his own home ice ended his season this year and their owner doesn't give a damn (though that owner did backtrack on his position with the Olympics constantly)

[Armourboy]

The reason international sports mean nothing in the US is because of the sports we play here.

Hockey, let's face it the grand prize is the Stanley Cup, not the Gold Medal.

Football. No one else plays it really other than Canada, so obviously winning the Super Bowl is what matters.

MLB - it was called "America's past time" for a reason. Even when it was in the Olympics, the Gold Medal was secondary.

Soccer has just recently gained some traction here. Now in the case of that sport, the World Cup is what matters, but that's because that is where the history lies. Soccer as a professional sport is still very new here.

Heck and I completely forgot the NBA. Tbh that probably came the closest to mattering at one point, but once the Dream Team came about and we just steam rolled it lost some appeal.

[jackofwind]

I think hockey is a risky enough sport that it's not unreasonable for he and the owners not to want to risk losing revenue for their games, the Tavares injury was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

I can see the stance taken by team owners, and I appreciate their concerns. At the end of the day I think there should be more care about the sport itself, and about the players who play it. I couldn't give two shits about the owners revenue, nor the League's - they've already proven themselves incredibly fiscally irresponsible over the years.

Injuries are unfortunate for sure, especially for a Cup run. But at the end of the day the players want to go, they want to risk the injury, and they want to win gold for their country. I tend to side with the players and the NHLPA in almost all instances though, so that may just be my own bias against the League.

At the end of the day the situation sucks. The NHL has no domain over hockey at a global level and shouldn't even be demanding to piggyback their own advertising through the Olympics. The best result we can hope for is that there won't be any repercussions except out of pocket insurance costs for players who want to attend the Olympics. If the League starts handing out suspensions or grandiose fines there's going to hell to pay.

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Hockey, let's face it the grand prize is the Stanley Cup, not the Gold Medal.

Yes, absolutely. But the players still have expressed that they badly want to play in the Olympics, which means that to them it's important. And as far as fans go, Canada competing for Gold in Olympic hockey is way more important than any Canadian team that isn't your home team competing for the Stanley Cup.

[Puupi]

What major sport besides Soccer?
Rugby / Volleyball? Sure, but I don't consider those major sports.

You don't consider those major sports. Big emphasize on the subject there. Basketball, field hockey, floorball, handball, all individual sports except for maybe golf and boxing. Most of those sports are bigger than ice hockey, too.

Yes. However a team like Belarus is no less of a joke and it's no different saying Team Europe or Team NA than Belarus, but the former is more competitive.

The whole concept of Team Europe and Team NA is a joke. It's not always about individual competitiveness. What you represent is key.

One could say the American spreadsheet club sports mentality is like an autistic view on sports. No heart and soul, just numbers, spreadsheets and analyzing instead.

[Greeney]

Yes, absolutely. But the players still have expressed that they badly want to play in the Olympics, which means that to them it's important. And as far as fans go, Canada competing for Gold in Olympic hockey is way more important than any Canadian team that isn't your home team competing for the Stanley Cup.

I kind of hope there's a threat of superstar contracts ending. If there's even a glimpse that a dozen NHL superstars will make the KHL more popular the NHL will do a 180.

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You don't consider those major sports. Big emphasize on the subject there. Basketball, field hockey, floorball, handball, all individual sports except for maybe golf and boxing. Most of those sports are bigger than ice hockey, too.

The whole concept of Team Europe and Team NA is a joke. It's not always about individual competitiveness. What you represent is key.

One could say the American spreadsheet club sports mentality is like an autistic view on sports. No heart and soul, just numbers, spreadsheets and analyzing instead.

Ok let me rephrase... I, and 99% of NHL fans, don't consider any of those major sports (besides Basketball which is just like hockey in terms of North American teams playing for the crown prize). Why are we comparing hockey with individual sports? Sure, Olympics are the place for the best individuals at every individual sport for everything.

How can you take Field hockey seriously living in a country where people know how to skate? Either way, in that handball, floorball, and whatever else I've never heard anyone ever give a crap about any of those in North America.

As for the autism comment... you're starting to sound like an anti-vaxxer there.

[Armourboy]

You don't consider those major sports. Big emphasize on the subject there. Basketball, field hockey, floorball, handball, all individual sports except for maybe golf and boxing. Most of those sports are bigger than ice hockey, too.


.

In North America most people couldn't even tell you what those are other than basketball. Heck yard darts would be more recognized and those things were outlawed and can only be found in yard sales lol.

[Puupi]

Ok let me rephrase... I, and 99% of NHL fans, don't consider any of those major sports (besides Basketball which is just like hockey in terms of North American teams playing for the crown prize). Why are we comparing hockey with individual sports? Sure, Olympics are the place for the best individuals at every individual sport for everything.

How can you take Field hockey seriously living in a country where people know how to skate? Either way, in that handball, floorball, and whatever else I've never heard anyone ever give a crap about any of those in North America.

See, the thing is, the whole world isn't America. Others do care. Olympics is the place for the best individuals for all team sports as well (for those sports that are represented there). For those that aren't, the World Championships of said sports is the place.

[Greeney]

See, the thing is, the whole world isn't America. Others do care. Olympics is the place for the best individuals for all team sports as well (for those sports that are represented there). For those that aren't, the World Championships of said sports is the place.

No it's not. We're actually aware the whole world isn't America and that others care about Olympics more than the top competitive league in the world. What we're mainly arguing about here is what sport contains the crown jewel and in most people's opinion it's wherever the toughest competition takes place.

The NHL is the best league for professional hockey, MLB for professional baseball, NBA for basketball, NFL for football, World Cup for Soccer. Olympic athletes playing Ice Hockey without the NHL (unless there's a movement to leave) are playing in a second-rate tournament. How can it be the Crown Jewel? The international level is not the top place for any of the major sports besides Soccer (as we feel in North America) from a competitive point of view.

[Armourboy]

See, the thing is, the whole world isn't America. Others do care. Olympics is the place for the best individuals for all team sports as well (for those sports that are represented there). For those that aren't, the World Championships of said sports is the place.

Maybe so, but the NHL is a Canadian/US based profession, with the invention of the sport being in Canada and that sports grandest achievement being in that league, not in the Olympics or World cup.

In Canada the Olympics matter a bit more because they created it, and have a sense of honor to uphold. In the US no one cared until we beat Russia in 1980.

Here I would say the Gold Medal will never matter as much as the Stanley Cup, and internationally the only major sport that won't be the same way is Soccer.

[Puupi]

No it's not. We're actually aware the whole world isn't America and that others care about Olympics more than the top competitive league in the world. What we're mainly arguing about here is what sport contains the crown jewel and in most people's opinion it's wherever the toughest competition takes place.

Crown jewel is what has the biggest public interest. Olympics ice hockey final beats Stanley cup by a long shot. Even in the US. There it also beats every other major sport event in the world except for the Super Bowl.

The NHL is the best league for professional hockey, MLB for professional baseball, NBA for basketball, NFL for football, World Cup for Soccer. Olympic athletes playing Ice Hockey without the NHL (unless there's a movement to leave) are playing in a second-rate tournament. How can it be the Crown Jewel? The international level is not the top place for any of the major sports besides Soccer (as we feel in North America) from a competitive point of view.

Of course olympics would be a second rate tournament without NHL players. That's exactly the point. It is the most important venue for NHL players to play on.

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https://www.nhl.com/news/olympic-fin...years/c-519476

[Greeney]

Crown jewel is the most prized asset. The most prized asset in sports handed out where the competition is the highest level. The highest level of competition in hockey is the NHL, the prize in the NHL is the Stanley Cup.

Public interest is irrelevant, the best athletes in hockey dream to win the Stanley Cup as a kid, it is the crown jewel of hockey.

[Puupi]

Also, Stanley Cup finals are watched by like 5 million people in NA and pretty much nobody else in the world, very few people in Europe actively follow NHL due to the time zone differences and "huge" tv paywall. And literally pretty much nobody gives a shit whether Pittsburgh or Los Angeles wins the cup. We only care how our boys are doing there.

Olympics ice hockey finals have been watched by about 50 million people in NA alone, I don't know the numbers from Europe, but everyone is watching them in the hockey countries. That's like so gigantically bigger event than Stanley Cup when it comes to public interest.

I just came across an article that said the Women's football World Cup final in 2015 was the most watched sport event in the US after Super Bowl that year. About 25 million viewers. That's like 5 times the amount of people watching Stanley Cup finals in the US.

Some perspective for you guys.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/7/6/890...the-nba-finals

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Crown jewel is the most prized asset. The most prized asset in sports handed out where the competition is the highest level. The highest level of competition in hockey is the NHL, the prize in the NHL is the Stanley Cup.

Public interest is irrelevant, the best athletes in hockey dream to win the Stanley Cup as a kid, it is the crown jewel of hockey.

As I originally said, it's the crown jewel of hockey. Not necessarily the players. But the sport. It is by far the most important event in ice hockey. Public interest is what pays for all this shit and keeps it running.

[jackofwind]

Also, Stanley Cup finals are watched by like 5 million people in NA and pretty much nobody else in the world, very few people in Europe actively follow NHL due to the time zone differences and "huge" tv paywall.

Olympics ice hockey finals have been watched by about 50 million people in NA alone, I don't know the numbers from Europe, but everyone is watching them in the hockey countries. That's like so gigantically bigger event than Stanley Cup when it comes to public interest.

I just came across an article that said the Women's football World Cup final in 2015 was the most watched sport event in the US after Super Bowl that year. About 25 million viewers. That's like 5 times the amount of people watching Stanley Cup finals in the US.

Some perspective for you guys.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/7/6/890...the-nba-finals

Well the Finals aren't usually watched by the fans of teams that never made it. Viewership across the playoffs up to that point is a much bigger number. Ice hockey finals are watched in such extreme numbers in North America when it's Canada and the US playing against each other. That's why "The Golden Goal" was such a big deal, seen by 16.2 million households in Canada alone, (and happened at the Olympics, not in the NHL): because it won Canada Gold on Canadian soil against the US.

Hockey isn't a popular sport in the US when compared to basketball, baseball or football - it has significantly less interest, outside of a few founding cities (who also have lots of interest in their other franchise teams).

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As I originally said, it's the crown jewel of hockey. Not necessarily the players. But the sport. It is by far the most important event in ice hockey. Public interest is what pays for all this shit and keeps it running.

It's hard to say. On the one hand I do agree that international competition is loved by the players, but I do think that even internationally the NHL and the Stanley Cup is the ultimate prize. That's why anyone who has the chance to play for it tends to move to NA to do so.

I just don't know. To me they're both really important, just in different ways.

[Puupi]

Hockey isn't a popular sport in the US when compared to basketball, baseball or football - it has significantly less interest, outside of a few founding cities (who also have lots of interest in their other franchise teams).

Yet olympics ice hockey trumps them all (minus Super Bowl). Makes you think, doesn't it.

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It's hard to say. On the one hand I do agree that international competition is loved by the players, but I do think that even internationally the NHL and the Stanley Cup is the ultimate prize. That's why anyone who has the chance to play for it tends to move to NA to do so.

Of course they want to get to NHL. It's the best league with the biggest paychecks. Playing ice hockey is their job, that's what they are supposed to do.

Getting to NHL is like getting a job at Harvard, winning the Stanley Cup is like getting professorship at Harvard. Winning the olympic gold is the Nobel Prize.

[jackofwind]

Yet olympics ice hockey trumps them all (minus Super Bowl). Makes you think, doesn't it.

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Of course they want to get to NHL. It's the best league with the biggest paychecks. Playing ice hockey is their job, that's what they are supposed to do.

Getting to NHL is like getting a job at Harvard, winning the Stanley Cup is like getting professorship at Harvard. Winning the olympic gold is the Nobel Prize.

But I think there's a lot of players who would rather win the Stanley Cup than an Olympic Gold. So I just don't know.

[Zeoni]

When guys are inducted into the hall of fame or there are discussions of that almost always the first point is how many cups did they win. Not how many gold medals did they win. Key difference. The Stanley Cup is most definitely the most prestigious award for North American players. European guys seem to favour the Olympics somewhat as evident in this thread. (Finnish guy saying Olympics > and all the NA guys claiming cup).

[Puupi]

When guys are inducted into the hall of fame or there are discussions of that almost always the first point is how many cups did they win. Not how many gold medals did they win. Key difference. The Stanley Cup is most definitely the most prestigious award for North American players. European guys seem to favour the Olympics somewhat as evident in this thread. (Finnish guy saying Olympics > and all the NA guys claiming cup).

What is more prestigious for players isn't necessarily the same as it is for fans. Which is quite evident with the amount of interest the fans direct at these different competitions.

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At least Rat Marchand gets penalized. I wish they did that for the other rat as well.

[Greeney]

What is more prestigious for players isn't necessarily the same as it is for fans. Which is quite evident with the amount of interest the fans direct at these different competitions.

"It sure is impressive that Sundin, Alfredsson, and Iginla have won the most prestigious award in ice hockey!" ...said no fan ever.

I have no idea why you think viewership of one final game that a bunch of half-interested fans watch takes some kind of priority over the most competitive league in the world. I'm not sure what you think public viewership means in terms of helping to pay for all this shit, but I thought we've already come to the understanding; people viewing the Olympics does not contribute in a financially beneficial way for these guys compared to playing in the NHL.