It's On Us "Autocorrect" PSA translates casual conversation to reveal rape culture

[Deleted]

They can, and some can't. Your post is pointless.

You said "good luck", seemingly there's no problem with them understanding that it's wrong to grab someone if unwanted as most don't do that. Hormones has nothing to do with someone being an asshole, as you implied.

[Raelbo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

For the fourth time: Go get other definitions to complement that one and give you a more comprehensive understanding of what it actually means.

You can't go and just cherry pick the first definition, off wikipedia, and then pretend it's the authorative and singular definition. Well you can, but then you just demonstrate your own ineptitude.

What point? Is your point so obscure that only you can understand it?

I would hope not. The point is, as I have said multiple times now. that "rape culture" encompasses more than just rape. It's about an attitude that leads to many forms of inappropriate sexual behaviour towards women (although the same can apply to men). But like I said, I think you need to do the reading on this topic, because clearly you have little or no knowledge of what the people who created the term meant by it, or what their plight was and (to a lesser extent today) still is.

That being said, as I understand it, if there is any country where there is no rape culture, Sweden is probably it.

[Raqubor]

You said "good luck", seemingly there's no problem with them understanding that it's wrong to grab someone if unwanted as most don't do that. Hormones has nothing to do with someone being an asshole, as you implied.

What I'm saying is alcohol can negatively influence the actions of someone when at an age where sexual desires are at their height.
Increase the chance of misbehaving. Drink enough alcohol and most walls come down.

I'm talking about alcohol because the post I quoted mentioned people aged 18-24, which is college.
Where do two strangers try to get in the groove? College parties, house parties, bars... etc.
Everyone drinks alcohol.

No-one is going around and raping people in classrooms.

Edit: This is obviously true for both genders. There are many girls who go out with the plan of getting laid.

[Cirayne24]

Intoxication, in many places, is firm grounds for establishing a lack of consent. Just by way of example; https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs...1000/1002.html

You trying to redefine those facts and pretend that this kind of rape is "okay" is exactly what "rape culture" looks like.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:

1. The defendant had sexual intercourse with a woman;

2. He and the woman were (not married/married) to each other at the time of the intercourse;

3. The effect of (a/an) (intoxicating/anesthetic/controlled) substance prevented the woman from resisting;

AND

4. The defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the effect of (a/an) (intoxicating/anesthetic/controlled) substance prevented the woman from resisting.

Sexual intercourse means any penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or genitalia by the penis. [Ejaculation is not required.]

So... women can't rape other women or men?

Actually... re-reading your link doesn't prove intoxication = rape. Literally says resisting. Striking up a conversation and convincing the girl of my sexual prowess doesn't mean I prevented her from resisting.

[Raelbo]

Yet what I quoted from wikipedia is not correct, because...? It uses the same definition that the feminists in Sweden uses for describing rape culture, just they do it in swedish rather than english.

I never said it wasn't correct. I said it's incomplete. There is a difference. What you quoted encompasses some of what "rape culture" means, but it is not an exhaustive list of what can/can't be defined by it.

[Magicpot]

It seems the big guns are starting to get on board the fight to stop rape culture.
You can really see the difference in wording that a normal person would use vs a rapist.

W/e, I'm neither a rapist nor a defender of rapists. I don't see the point since these people are probably not going to care, but whatever. Doesn't affect me.

For the fourth time: Go get other definitions to complement that one and give you a more comprehensive understanding of what it actually means.

You can't go and just cherry pick the first definition, off wikipedia, and then pretend it's the authorative and singular definition. Well you can, but then you just demonstrate your own ineptitude.



I would hope not. The point is, as I have said multiple times now. that "rape culture" encompasses more than just rape. It's about an attitude that leads to many forms of inappropriate sexual behaviour towards women (although the same can apply to men). But like I said, I think you need to do the reading on this topic, because clearly you have little or no knowledge of what the people who created the term meant by it, or what their plight was and (to a lesser extent today) still is.

That being said, as I understand it, if there is any country where there is no rape culture, Sweden is probably it.

I have done the reading on this topic and I find it to be a ridiculous and pessimistic outlook on life. I can see some valid points in it but then again things like "Manspreading" (normal people call that men sitting comfortably when it bothers nobody else because itchy balls = bad) take away all the credence from the legitimate issues that are raised (such as the darker sides of hookup culture, especially when alcohol is involved.)

And the definitions are getting a tad too fluent for me, by the way. I've heard people arguing dozens of times now that if two drunk people have consensual sex, the man is by default the rapist if the women decides later she didn't want it.

These ridiculous moving the goal post and shifting the presumption of innocence strategies don't serve to improve anything, it just makes reasonable people sneer at the whole thing in general and dismiss it.

My 2 cents towards this.

[Deleted]

For the fourth time: Go get other definitions to complement that one and give you a more comprehensive understanding of what it actually means.

You can't go and just cherry pick the first definition, off wikipedia, and then pretend it's the authorative and singular definition. Well you can, but then you just demonstrate your own ineptitude.

Google translate from politism about it:

The hallmark of a rape culture is that women are blamed for their own rape if they did not live up to the demands of rape culture has set on how women should protect themselves, and that men's sexuality portrayed as uncontrollable and all men as potential rapists.

Rape culture is created by a number of components that interact with each other.

- Victimblaming or focus on anything other than the perpetrator's act ( "Why she was so drunk she could not defend herself?")
- trivialization of sexual assault (very common in popular culture, see also Steubenville further down)
- Slutshaming ( "Whores can not be raped "), the indulgence of sexual abuse (" Take it as a compliment! ")
- Objectification of women and to express the view that women are in the public do not like what individuals anywhere but on men's terms and conditions (" to say to women always think about how they dress and behave to avoid being raped're no worse than telling someone to unlock the bike so it does not get stolen ")
- and a strong desire to believe in bare numbers of false rape reports ( "Many complaints are the fabricated to hide infidelity / shameful behavior that the woman regret the day after") are all important components of rape culture.

In this way, controls all women's lives by the constant threat of rape and need to protect themselves against rape if they are not to be coated debt for it. Internalized rape culture means that not only the environment but also the victim himself takes the blame for a sexual assault.

It would seem that RAPE and NORMS relating to how victims are treated is actually pretty vital to it.

[Mehrunes]

I disagree.

The first thing to understand is that rape has no singular, universally accepted definition. It comes in many forms, some of which are far more brutal and explicit than others. What they all share in common though is that some form of sexual penetration occurs, to which one of the parties does not consent.

You don't need a universally accepted definition. The one that matters for US (which is what most posters focus on for one reason or another) is the US definition and maybe the state definitions. Things that don't meet it/them are not rape in that context and as such are meaningless. And unless someone argues in favor of narrowing it down or just not punishing certain behaviors that meet said definition, they aren't normalizing rape.

Secondly when people talk about "rape culture" it's not just about what you, Njorun, understand as rape. It's about the collective sum of acts which meet the criterion of being unwanted sexual acts performed by one person on another who does not consent to it. Rape culture can include things that don't actually meet the definition of rape, but share similar characteristics with rape (namely being sexual in nature and non-consensual): Eg groping a woman's breast, a man's testicles, or someone's ass without consent.

The reason the term "rape culture" is used is that in western countries we like to ignore or justify or simply outright deny the existence of the "less severe" forms of sexual misconduct. Just because you don't have gangs of men accosting women and then physically forcing themselves on them doesn't mean that there aren't other, more subtle, forms of rape going on.

So what you're saying is that rape culture hijacks the term rape, projects it on things that aren't rape and effectively stretches it into meaninglessness (and then people that question this are proof it exists)? Also, out of curiosity, are the "more subtle forms of rape" mentioned at the end here the same as "less severe forms of sexual misconduct" mentioned at the start of that paragraph and/or "the things that don't actually meet the definition of rape" in the paragraph before?

And I can fully and whole heartedly agree that the kind of "rape culture" that exists in western countries is nothing like the kind of "rape culture" that exists within certain communities in a country like my own. But just because it's less severe, doesn't make it ok. And just because a bunch of MRA types form circle jerks on the internet denying its existence doesn't mean it isn't there. A big part of the problem with western culture and admitting the existence of their rape cultures is to look at the kind of war-crime type of rapes that happen in the third world countries, and assume that because you don't have the same stuff going on, that everything is fine.

But yes, I do understand. It's a lot easier to deny the existence of the problem than to own up to the fact that it exists. It's easier to dismiss victims and their sympathisers as feminists, SJWs and stupid people who should have been more careful, than to deal with those who perpetrated the harm. The irony of course is that denial of rape culture is actually part of rape culture, and by acknowledging its existence, you are actually helping to make it go away.

Conjuring problems out of thin air is even easier. It's also easier to dismiss people disagreeing with your One True Truth as MRA circlejerks (and there's totes legit no hypocrisy here). And constructing your dogma in some circular logic way is the easiest setting there is. Also, what if the people who you say are victims of rape culture were actually victims of rape? I'd say culture on its own generally lacks in victimization capabilities.

[Deleted]

Where did I ever say you shouldn't try to persuade people into having sex? There is absolutely nothing with persuasion. The problem with rape culture is that people are unwilling to accept "no" for an answer when persuasion fails, so they resort to other tactics to procure "consent".

This has always been illegal... so whats your point?

What this doesnt constitute is that a rape culture exists...

[Deleted]

That being said, as I understand it, if there is any country where there is no rape culture, Sweden is probably it.

Nope, we're a country with instituationalized rape culture(As per the what I quoted from politism) according to feminists here. A small percentage of scumbags apparently means societal attitudes normalizes and makes rape pervasive in sweden even though rape is shunned.

[Deleted]

Where did you get these bullshit percentages?
Sexual assault does not mean rape. They label ass grabbing as sexual assault.
You want to tell drunken hormone raged teenagers to not do that?

Good luck.

These are typical bullshit statistics that are EASILY disproved... why?

The definition of rape.

Because their definition of rape is stretched to include things like looking at someone the wrong way, or brushing against someone in the corridoor. Or if you have had sex when you are drunk... that is 100% rape in these studies. I kid you not that is how they define rape in these studies.

[analmoose]

They need to start a new forum, specifically just for tennisfag to post his inane bullshit. I wonder if you truly believe the crap you post, or if you are objectively the most elaborate troll of all time.

Rape culture is where you can freely assault a woman in the streets. Rape her, and then have her stoned for being such a slut she would allow herself to be raped.

Getting drunk, making poor decisions, succumbing to your lust because you are inebriated is not rape culture. It's your own poor decision making. Twisting someones words with an app is not rape culture.

If the texts had said the girl passed out, and he took advantage of the situation. That is rape. Not rape culture, however. If they planned to roofie the girls drinks, that is rape. They did not force anything. If you drink enough alcohol that you cannot control your actions, that's your fault, while someone who used that situation to their advantage may have pretty poor character, it's not rape unless it was made clear no sex was wanted or intended, but happened anyway.

Pull your head out of your asses, figure out how reality works, take responsibility for your actions. Don't make retarded movements and get authority involved constantly because of your poor life choices. This goes for any party involved.

[Mehrunes]

For the third time, your definition is not correct. So bugger off, do a bit of reading, get other opinions on what "rape culture" means and then come back to the conversation when you have the basic foundation knowledge. Thank you.

@Njorun's definition is from Wikipedia. Was Wikipedia edited by the patriarchy or something? Wait, no, I've got this. You dismissing Wikipedia's definition is proof of Wikipedia definition (culture)!

[Spiffums]

So the hot cougar who picked up my drunk ass at a bar raped me? SOB...

Yup! Your poor decision making skills while drunk are not your fault. Remember that the next time you drunk buy stuff on Amazon and tell them you're not going to pay for it because you weren't sober enough to consent to entering into a finical transaction.

[Mistame]

"Rape Culture" is a term invented by the feminist movement to define a set of problems emanating from a societal attitude. That makes their definition correct.

No, it doesn't.

People need to learn, learn, learn, LEARN, to LISTEN to what they have to say instead of fixating on the term they chose to use.

This is a bit of a chicken little thing. Most of the time what they have to say is stupid. Everyone knows what constitutes rape: Lack of consent. Drunk sex is not inherently "rape". If no consent was given or consent was denied, it was rape. If consent was given, it was not. Even if they don't remember. Also, again, that which applies to women must also apply to men, lest it be inherently invalid.

Maybe it is a foolish term for them to have chosen, because the typical asshole narcissist who embodies rape culture is going to react defensively, as if he's the victim.

To most "feminists", all men fall under that umbrella which is probably why they went with "culture" in the first place. The fact of the matter is that words have meanings for a reason. You can't just throw a couple of words together and say, "Well, it means this, not what it actually means" while others say, "We're going to use it like this and that's what it means". That's not how words work. Njorun's definition is the accurate and actual definition.

Outside of a pervasive, collective belief that believes rape is acceptable, "rape culture" does not exist. The notion that calling other, inherently fallacious definitions invalid, challenging someone's definition of "rape" or questioning the validity of a rape claim is indicative of "rape culture" is circular logic stupidity. (Note: I know you didn't claim this last bit, just throwing it in there for those who did.)

[Mehrunes]

Firstly, this is not some universal definition - it's just a wikipedia reference. "Rape culture" is a made up label, used by many different people, to encompass an issue that negatively affects many in society.

Here is another definition for you: "In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself"

I would argue that your approach of trying to choose a set definition for the phrase in order to exclude certain acts that clearly should be unacceptable is pointless. A far better approach is to accept a broader definition of "rape culture" that encompasses the sum of reasonably accepted definitions given it by victims of the actions encompassed within it. It's completely unhelpful to harp on the label if the problem clearly exists.

Ah, OK then. I've been stabbed. An act that clearly should be unacceptable. I, a victim, hereby redefine rape culture to including stabbings. I say it's reasonably accepted definition. And trying to exclude this from rape culture is pointless. If you disagree you'll just prove that rape culture exists (and will be a hypocrite for harping on the label). Because words are apparently meaningless.

Let's broaden the definition of rape too while we're at it. I'll say starting with it covering consensual sex as well is reasonable and acceptable as well. And gradually we'll work our way through genocide to celestial bodies and beyond. In few years we'll refer to moon and Sun as "rape". And eventually we'll be like Marklar from South Park, just with rape. Of course if you deny this you will also prove rape culture too. And so will anyone else who thinks that stretching the term rape to the point it's paper thin is moronic.

[LMuhlen]

Nope.

The legal term requires proof of intent... and drunken sex does not prove rape. Drunken sex is drunken sex.

It never has been considered rape.




This is only true if you believe that drunken sex is rape...

Exactly!! It is true if you believe drunken sex is rape (with drunken sex being replaceable with any situation that some think is rape and some don't).

That is the entire point. You take a group of people who think X Y Z are rape and they live surrounded by people who say only X is rape, and there is a law saying X and Y are rape. They feel under-represented, their laws don't reflect their beliefs, and they call that a rape culture because Z is seen as rape by them, but others think it is not. They then want to change the laws and/or the perception of other people to be in line with their own point of view.

Now they say drunken sex under a weird set of conditions is rape and you come in and say "there is no rape culture and drunken sex under that set of conditions is not rape", you are doing EXACTLY what they are accusing people of doing, EXACTLY what they are referring to as a rape culture, and therefore, you are making their life easier on this subject.

Again, in this case the law being on your side does not mean there isn't a rape culture, because the law can be what they are trying to change. So it doesn't matter if, from a legal point of view, this this and that. If you go to a country where a man can legally have sex with a woman if she looks him in the eyes, there is a rape culture in that country. If you go to a country where a man can legally have sex with a woman who is mildly drunk and doesn't object and you think that constitutes rape then you think there is a rape culture in that country.

It is all perception and not laws.

[Mehrunes]

"Rape Culture" is a term invented by the feminist movement to define a set of problems emanating from a societal attitude. That makes their definition correct. People need to learn, learn, learn, LEARN, to LISTEN to what they have to say instead of fixating on the term they chose to use.

Don't pay attention to words and meanings people. Conveying a meaning is totally not the purpose of words after all. Just LISTEN AND BELIEVE.

[Mehrunes]

Yet what I quoted from wikipedia is not correct, because...? It uses the same definition that the feminists in Sweden uses for describing rape culture, just they do it in swedish rather than english.

It was too inconvenient. Njorun pls, don't harp on the label. Only Raelbo... victims. I mean victims. Only victims are allowed to set the label. By "totally not harping" on labels like yours, that don't fit the dogma of the victims... wait, no, this time it was actually Raelbo... I'm so confused right now... Anyway, by them harping on your label. Goddamnit, I mean not harping. Because of values like consistency, integrity and intellectual honesty

[exriel]

This thread is super gross. Watching all the mental backflips from dudes trying to shout down their own conscience is making my head spin.