Russia spread fake news during Dutch election, secret service AIVD reports

[JohnBrown1917]

My dog has a nose for stupid, naive people who believe everything the government says. You'll never enter my home, cuckyboy

Yes, its so much better to just belioeve russia on everything.

- - - Updated - - -

]The Sun, MSNBC, infowars,[/B] tabloids, etc.

None of those are dutch.

[NED funded]

Here is a better analogy. America is that guy who hasn't had to struggle much in life, he is the president of a great frat and does dickish things regularly. He wants to have sex with this one girl, Svetlana, but Svetlana has been gang raped a few times and molested as well, so his normally charming machismo seems threatening to her.

And, realistically a nation cannot fully be the righteous paragon of morality or be consistent all the time. If that were the case most nations in the Latin America would be modern day Venezuela. As for the whole democratic interference, those places at the time never had quite a stable political climate. (The only place where you can make an argument for is maybe Chile) Also our interference in the Latin American democratic process is way overblown (Once again aside from Chile).

That is one more person who needs housing in limited space and one more person to compete with for jobs. Never forget that.

Isn't the housing problem more related to restrictions in construction? Even without immigrants it seems stupid to say that the situation would be significantly better. Also we aren't really considering the positive externalities associated to immigrants that contribute to society, in many cases entire industries would be nothing if it weren't for them and the jobs some people like to complain about would probably not even exists.

[Barnabas]

Labour are not liberals, what the fuck lol.
Plus, the biggesr winners are not pro-russia(D66, CDA, Animal party, Greens), why do you think they are blaming Russia for voting for parties that are not pro russia?
All of you Putin lovers here know jack shit about dutch politics.

- - - Updated - - -



We do know they released fake news.

Labour party is social democrat which is basically a liberal viewpoint. Seems like you don't know much about your own country.

[Mormolyce]

Media. Is this a joke?

You said they weren't trustworthy.

If a Russian released the podesta emails, than their intervention is practically insignificant compared to the US' own record of interventions.

So you've completely abandoned your position that this is all a "Tom Clancy conspiracy theory" and have retreated to "yeah they did it... but the US is bad too!".

Boy it's funny watching you squirm.

[Gurluas]

To be honest, both the US and Russia have done really bad things. Ever since the USSR fell, the US has been able to do shit unchecked, so I'm glad Russia is awakening after the useless Yeltsin years.

Hillary was extremely corrupt and backed by the media, which means she was backed by big corporations. Trump only won because people rebelled against that crap. Bernie would easily have beaten Trump.

[Theodarzna]

So you've completely abandoned your position that this is all a "Tom Clancy conspiracy theory" and have retreated to "yeah they did it... but the US is bad too!".

Boy it's funny watching you squirm.

Well when people say "Hacked the elections," people tend to picture changing voting tabulations. Not the Podesta emails.

[Mormolyce]

Well when people say "Hacked the elections," people tend to picture changing voting tabulations. Not the Podesta emails.

Nobody thinks that except a few Republican strawmen.

[JohnBrown1917]

To be honest, both the US and Russia have done really bad things. Ever since the USSR fell, the US has been able to do shit unchecked, so I'm glad Russia is awakening after the useless Yeltsin years.

Hillary was extremely corrupt and backed by the media, which means she was backed by big corporations. Trump only won because people rebelled against that crap. Bernie would easily have beaten Trump.

They 'rebelled' with the wrong, he is the big corporation, they just removed the middle man.

- - - Updated - - -

Labour party is social democrat which is basically a liberal viewpoint. Seems like you don't know much about your own country.

Social democrats are not liberal, what the hell lol
Willem Drees would spin in his grave if his old party became liberal.


Neither labour or the VVD is blaming Russia(VVD will probs be in power again anyway) for losing seats, so where are you getting this?

[Deleted]

You said they weren't trustworthy.



So you've completely abandoned your position that this is all a "Tom Clancy conspiracy theory" and have retreated to "yeah they did it... but the US is bad too!".

Boy it's funny watching you squirm.

They aren't. That's why I apply critical thinking.

[Mormolyce]

They aren't. That's why I apply critical thinking.

Let's recap. I posted numerous news reports on the topic, you dismissed them out of hand because "news based on intelligence reports" aren't trustworthy, according to you. Now you're claiming you read reports and apply critical thinking to them.

So go ahead, read the articles I linked and give us the results of your critical thinking.

[Noblia]

In the case of America, Democrats and dejected Liberals would rather believe themselves the victims of a global conspiracy straight out of a Tom Clancy novel, then accept that MAYBE Hillary should have visited Wisconsin and maybe campaigned better. Or you know, I guess Wikileaks blew the lid on Hillary, so instead of everyone suspecting her of being a duplicitous two faced cunt, we had confirmation of that assessment. But now we are asked to believe that wikileaks tarnished an otherwise flawless reputation and was so insidious that it did more damage than Hillary's own unwillingness to visit key battle ground states and her own arrogant sense of entitlement.

IMHO Democrats just will not come to grips with defeat, EVER.

You hit it on the nose 100%.

[Deleted]

Let's recap. I posted numerous news reports on the topic, you dismissed them out of hand because "news based on intelligence reports" aren't trustworthy, according to you. Now you're claiming you read reports and apply critical thinking to them.

So go ahead, read the articles I linked and give us the results of your critical thinking.

Let's recap. Go back and read my posts. Post number 1:

You're linking news based on intelligence reports, they're not trustworthy.

[Mormolyce]

Let's recap. Go back and read my posts. Post number 1:

You're linking news based on intelligence reports, they're not trustworthy.

LOL.

So what sources do you have on this issue that you're applying critical thinking to?

[Deleted]

LOL.

So what sources do you have on this issue that you're applying critical thinking to?

Same as everyone else's.

[Mormolyce]

Same as everyone else's.

Man you are really committed to evading the question.

Perhaps you could be specific.

[Adolecent]

Labour party is social democrat which is basically a liberal viewpoint. Seems like you don't know much about your own country.

Liberalism is a heterogeneous movement, which roughly three major submovements exist. The classical liberalism stands for minimal government intervention. Social liberalism allows limited government intervention in the economic field. The conservative liberalism is a flow that lies between the liberal and the conservatism.

Social Democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production; as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim to establish them. Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective, or cooperative ownership; to citizen ownership of equity; or to any combination of these. Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them, social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.

In The Netherlands the

VVD = conservative liberalism
PVV = populism / social liberalism
D66 = social liberalism (with a more green/social twitch)
CDA = Christian democracy
GroenLinks = green progressive left
SP = social democracy
PvdA = social democracy

Liberalism is considerd a right-wing political ideology in The Netherlands, and in almost all other countries on the European Continent, since they operate on the "right" side of the "left <-> right" political spectrum here. @Gilrak 's statement is correct.

Be aware that what in the US consider "left" (Democrate Party) and "right" (Republican Party) we in Europe consider "right" and "extreme right". That immediately debunks the fear of the "right winged gods" that "the left will cause poverty for all in the end", since we are very wealthy, prosperous, healthy and happy in the EU.

[Deleted]

Man you are really committed to evading the question.

Perhaps you could be specific.

Same as everyone else's. BBC, major national news, the guardian... stuff like that. You're not really getting the point at all though.
The point is, I don't read news and take it for granted.

[Mormolyce]

Same as everyone else's. BBC, major national news, the guardian... stuff like that. You're not really getting the point at all though.
The point is, I don't read news and take it for granted.

No you reject the ones you don't like out of hand.

[Deleted]

No you reject the ones you don't like out of hand.

Yeah... That's idiotic. Who said That?

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

So the British government has full controll over what gets reported? Sounds backwards, our state funded networks are not under direct government control.
But you want me to explain how spreading fake news could affect voting behavior?

maybe not direct government control, but it was hard to ignore how the BBC reported negatively on anything related to increasing the positive image of IndyRef#1, regardless of whether it was truth or not.

i know you will ask me for evidence, however i dont have any at hand, and digging through BBC garbage articles is not something im fond of in my spare time.
all i can say is, that as someone living in scotland, BBC reporting was entirely anti-indyref and pro-westminster regardless of how ludicrous the bias got.