PLEASE Don't Have KJ Turn on the Sargeras/the Legion

[therealbowser]

That's why they introduced a new and stronger faction before Legion

No. The void entities are not stronger than the Legion. They never have been, at least not on the dimension we face them on (ours). The void lords themselves are another story, obviously.

Now they don't need to keep the Legion, but it would be a sound story move. Kind of like how the Scourge still exists but is no longer trying to destroy Azeroth. If the Legion is completely defeated, all of the content relating to demons would suddenly disappear, and that would be odd for warlocks, and demon hunters for that matter. If they became a different faction with different goals, they could still be antagonistic from time to time without being the true threat.

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Most of the Legion is probably gonna be part of the Dark army/Army of the Void. Trick Sargeras into a crusade against all life, converting millions as you go into power junkies who are moved by their fear than their courage.

When the Void Lords show up or their avatars, the Legion's armies will either be easily influenced by their fel blood(Void will easily trump fel) or the promises of power or a fate worse than true death.

We're gonna need a few Legion commanders, ones who were aware of Sargeras' true plans(not the kill cause its fun, but save the universe from the void) to aid us.

It's possible, but that would be a bit of a letdown if they just suddenly turned around while Sargeras was still alive. If we kill him and they turn, it makes sense; after all, Sargeras did find them doing that kind of thing to begin with.

[MikeBogina]

It's possible, but that would be a bit of a letdown if they just suddenly turned around while Sargeras was still alive. If we kill him and they turn, it makes sense; after all, Sargeras did find them doing that kind of thing to begin with.

That's what I like about Sargeras and Deathwing characters. As powerful and godly as beings may feel to us, mentally... intellectually, they have the same flaws. We finally saw something I felt Warcraft was missing for a very long time, and that was Kil'jaedin finally showing his frustration over Sargeras' incompetence as the leader of the Legion.

I think Sargeras' fall will be a surprise to him, that he this entire time was doing what the Void Lords wanted. He killed the Titans and filled the universe with fel corruption and scoured all life that had any chance of standing up to the Void.

Now the Legion is an endless army that isn't motivated by courage to do what's right, but fear of someone stronger and promises of power. That's gonna be his downfall, when he's alone in the dark.

Imo, it's gonna come down to a dark titan versus Azeroth. And either that Dark Titan is an known one or Sargeras is still a 50/50 for me.

[Zandalariprelate]

Having a character allied with us controlling the most powerful force in the universe seems a bit odd. Really, if the Legion were on our side, what could ever threaten us again? Seems like a boring option in my biased perspective. Maybe it could work, but it would make more sense if it became a group no longer bent on destroying the universe and simply pursued its own goals instead.

Certainly doesn't need to be KJ leading it, or anyone else, but it would be highly odd if a character aligned to us controlled it. But it is ultimately a possibility.

I think after this expansion Sargeras could pull a Joker/Valkorion thing to the players and the leaders, you know like that little devil in the cartoons where he give evil advice and trying to influencing the subject since probably the legion would be defeated with the majority of the demons existing and Sargeras would had more interest in a fel army of azeroth

[lockybalboa]

KJ seems to be remorseful in that trailer

[Noomz]

Kind of looking back at Blizzard's formula for how they have built up villains. A theme that occurs often is when a big bad guy is designated in the beginning, and as the story progresses we see he/she/it is struggling with some inner turmoil in regards to loyalties or moral, and then at the climax he/she/it ends up turning good OR doing that one sacrificial good deed to help the protagonists.

The 7.2. trailer certainly implied frustration Kil'jaeden has with Sargeras due to (in his mind) the consistent failures of the Burning Legion. Frustrated enough to make it to the level of almost BLAMING Sargeras.

And also, unless I'm looking too much into it, you can tell during the scene of Kil'jaeden watching the dudes @ Krasus Landing speak that when Velen begins talking about the true masters of the Legion revealing themselves, and speaks about Kil'jaeden (calling him a monster, etc)... the look of utter sadness on KJ's face followed by anger. He looks almost... hurt still.

Perhaps this is more of a rant, or a maybe a plea, but please do NOT have KJ ending up turning on Sargeras to the benefit of us.

Mannoroth and Archimonde were evil and against us to the end.

KJ is supposed to be infinitely more evil and devious than they.

I sincerely doubt some characters would allow it, especially not Illidan or Velen.

What could happen is that he defects or becomes controlled by the Void Gods in some way, as we activate the defense cajigger.

[Deleted]

KJ talks about failure because he percieves it as failure; an entity like Sargeras sees no failure in failing to invade a world over the course of ten thousand years - eternity is his. Although KJ is immortal aswell, his perception of time can be nowhere near the way a titan percieves it.

The point is that Sargeras didn't let KJ in on all the information as to what his intentions with Azeroth are. Sargeras has showed great restraint and, as is obvious by now, does not intend to annihilate Azeroth; he wants to make it his and making it his has pretty much a lot to do with being careful as to how you invade. KJ doesn't understand is; in many ways, Sargeras is keeping KJ in the dark just as KJ kept Gul'dan in the dark when he lead him to across the Nighthold. KJ understands this and this is why he is frustrated. He is used to decieving others, whereas now he is being decieved by his master's ulterior motives.

Otherwise, the Burning Legion isn't a failure. They've destroyed countless worlds. Sargeras simply needs this one whole. KJ's personal inability to deal with his people who've been eluding him is on him alone, just as the Lich King's disobedience was and just like Illidan's disobedience was. These are his failed projects.

I bet Sargeras is being patient and wants to take the planet whole because he wants to make Azeroth into his waifu when she's "born". Dude must be kinda lonely being the last Titan for so long.

[TJ]

Don't see how some of theories on KJ could happen. It's not like he can straight up just betray Sarg because he's a flea in comparison, if Sarg found out about any plans to disobey or KJ did something to disrupt the plan then Sarg would sneeze on him and he'd turn into ash. Of course it depends on how they're showing Sarg atm, as in does he have his body back or is he simply a presence with no physical form, but really, I can't see KJ being so stupid to simply go full on against Sarg and try take on someone immensely more powerful than himself.

[MechaCThun]

KJ seems to be remorseful in that trailer

He certainly comes off that way. I believe it is a mixture of the feeling of betrayal he has towards Velen and the draenei boiling over when Velen calls him a monster. Then you add in his perception that the Legion has "failed" in all of their attempts at doing whatever they do while being ordered by Sargeras.

Now they don't need to keep the Legion, but it would be a sound story move. Kind of like how the Scourge still exists but is no longer trying to destroy Azeroth. If the Legion is completely defeated, all of the content relating to demons would suddenly disappear, and that would be odd for warlocks, and demon hunters for that matter. If they became a different faction with different goals, they could still be antagonistic from time to time without being the true threat.

I 100% with this. The Legion as an official, structured group of demons that have a chain of command could be destroyed and the countless demons of existence could just be that... countless demons.

The Legion is disbanded and the demons that remain just... exist.

[My User Name]

please do NOT have KJ ending up turning on Sargeras to the benefit of us.

Mannoroth and Archimonde were evil and against us to the end.

KJ is supposed to be infinitely more evil and devious than they.

Wait, this is your defense? You want KJ to not turn against Sargeras because Archimonde and Mannoroth didn't...?

Why?

[MechaCThun]

Wait, this is your defense? You want KJ to not turn against Sargeras because Archimonde and Mannoroth didn't...?

Why?

You didn't read my entire post, and if you did, you're willfully ignoring the larger reasoning.

Archimonde and Mannoroth was used as an example. In rank, Kil'jaeden is above them. In power, Kil'jaeden is probably stronger than them (definitely stronger than Mannoroth, arguably stronger than Archimonde). In terms of capability to do evil, Kil'jaeden is far more devious. But you never saw any seeds of doubt, frustration or possible turncoat-ing sown in Archimonde or Mannoroth, yet we have seen it now with Kil'jaeden. Being that he is higher up in the Legion in terms of rank and power, he shouldn't be the one that may potentially turn against Sargeras. Should have been somebody below him. That was the example. Not a "defense".

[Deleted]

Idk a legion civil war might be a cool if they ever do a twisting nether expansion (asumming the legion make it past this Expasion). Imagine us playing the factions off against each other

[therealbowser]

Don't see how some of theories on KJ could happen. It's not like he can straight up just betray Sarg because he's a flea in comparison, if Sarg found out about any plans to disobey or KJ did something to disrupt the plan then Sarg would sneeze on him and he'd turn into ash. Of course it depends on how they're showing Sarg atm, as in does he have his body back or is he simply a presence with no physical form, but really, I can't see KJ being so stupid to simply go full on against Sarg and try take on someone immensely more powerful than himself.

Well when I say he would betray Sargeras, I don't mean he would join our fight against him or fight against him at all, rather that he would turn his back on Sargeras and go down a different path. Not as an anti-hero, but as a different kind of villain. He could end up leading what was left of the Burning Legion after Sargeras's death in this scenario. You have to realize that, unlike Archimonde and a lot of other demon leaders, Kil'jaeden is intelligent and cunning. Surely he knows when to retreat, and given his animosity against Sargeras, he could end up leaving his crusade rather than dying for his cause which he no longer believes in.

All this said, I doubt it will happen. Most likely, Kil'jaeden is going to die before the end of Legion and we will not see him again.

[corebit]

KJ is probably sick and tired of Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth and continued failure of the BL ever since.

[Kokolums]

The problem is that a KJ vs Sargeras fued isnt what WoW lore needs. WoW lore is chock full of baddies that are incompetant and never accomplish anything. This is just more of the same. What the lore NEEDS is strong, competant villains that win. This feud just makes me roll my eyes.

[Deleted]

He's not turning on Sargeras, he'll be begging for Sargeras to save him once we mob the floor with him in ToS.

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The problem is that a KJ vs Sargeras fued isnt what WoW lore needs. WoW lore is chock full of baddies that are incompetant and never accomplish anything. This is just more of the same. What the lore NEEDS is strong, competant villains that win. This feud just makes me roll my eyes.

If villains would win, we'd be re-leveling our characters every tier.

Villains by default, can't win, they can have some small victories in battle, but that's all they'll ever get.

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Wouldn't mind one day that Azeroth gets destroyed and we have to flee to an unknown world, it could potentially revitalize the feeling of WoW in general, but a new planet is gonna cost us 20 raid tiers for sure.

[Kokolums]

Its hard to believe but in all of WoW history, a major lore hero has NEVER even lost a straight up 1v1 fight with a villain and died. The only time heroes die is when they are seriously outnumbered and / or its heroic self sacrifice. This makes the villains look pathetic. A legion civil war just makes it worse.

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If villains would win, we'd be re-leveling our characters every tier.

Villains by default, can't win, they can have some small victories in battle, but that's all they'll ever get.

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Wouldn't mind one day that Azeroth gets destroyed and we have to flee to an unknown world, it could potentially revitalize the feeling of WoW in general, but a new planet is gonna cost us 20 raid tiers for sure.

Thats not wha i mean.

[Deleted]

KJ is probably sick and tired of Sargeras' obsession with Azeroth and continued failure of the BL ever since.

Well technically the only ones that failed are his demon scrub lords though.

Archimonde got rekt by some whisps.
KJ too fat, couldn't even get through the portal.
And so on..

I mean if Sargeras managed to get near Azeroth, he wouldn't need any of them scrubs because he'd just fling his sword and it would be game over. That's the reason why we'll never see him near Azeroth in his full titan form (not the scrub avatar, which is like a million times smaller than his actual size) because it wouldn't make any sense on both power and lore levels that we could withstand his sword that's larger than our planet.

[Kokolums]

Wow is horribly, horribly written. The lore is a total mess.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I'd love for him to turn on Sargeras, but not in a "redemption" but in mutiny.

[Deleted]

Its hard to believe but in all of WoW history, a major lore hero has NEVER even lost a straight up 1v1 fight with a villain and died. The only time heroes die is when they are seriously outnumbered and / or its heroic self sacrifice. This makes the villains look pathetic. A legion civil war just makes it worse.

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Thats not wha i mean.

Because the major lore characters are powered and protected by Elune and co. Sargeras is the strongest evil (until void lords), but in a pure power fest, he'd probably lose quite easily from Elune, though I doubt we're ever gonna see Elune's physical version, let alone see her get into any kind of fight, although, If we're heading to the void (somehow) I think we'll have her manifest a few times after we inevitably make everything worse (the usual).

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I'd love for him to turn on Sargeras, but not in a "redemption" but in mutiny.

Doesn't matter, he's dead in a few months, Sargeras will have a good laugh, until he falls and gets redeemed himself.