Suspected Syria gas attack kills dozens

[Shalcker]

Both the WHO and MCF have said their medical teams are reporting that the symptoms presented are consistent with a chemical agent.

Which chemical agent (or range of chemical agents) exactly, and which symptoms?

[Kiri]

It's strange how western medias works , there is no topics here about attack on Sankt petersburg metro where Russians civilians got killed..but when some thing happened which may or may not include Russians red light turns on.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/04/eu...sia-explosion/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ru...-blast-n741961
http://fox61.com/2017/04/03/explosio...ssia-kills-10/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-0...russia/8412634
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...shchad-station

You are not even trying.

The validity of assad as a political figure isn't part of the discussion. Assad is not a viable option in a normal scenario. Unfortunately this is far from normal. Assad now represents the secular, stable Syria of the past, Islamist extremists represent a step back decades.
Syria and Yemen are being bombed to the stone age. This is whats wrong with them.

Wrong will always be wrong. There's degrees of wrong. Saddam is wrong, current iraq is worst. Gheddafi is wrong, current Libya is worst. Assad is wrong, the alternatives are worst.
This is how it is, and unless you decide not to take part in this political discussion, you have to understand what you had with Assad and what you will have if Assad is replaced.

The underlying assumption is that there is only Assad and Islamist extremists in Syria. There are still non-extremist rebels and civilians left that could create a more moderate government, but they have have two more heavily armed and more ruthless factions opposing them, while the West watches them being bombed and killed. There are more options, but they can no longer be achieved by Syrians, especially while Assad has Russian backing. Rationalizations like 'if Assad is gone, the IS will take over' are convenient excuses by this point.

Note that I am not a fan of interventionism and would have liked for everyone to stay out of this from the beginning. But the thing is, they did not and escalated stuff. In my opinion, that creates a responsibility to clean up this mess, but I guess that is no longer the currency of politics these days.

[Mavett]

We'll Sarin is certainly not something you come across in Walmart but it sure is something you can get access to provided youre an isis militant having wrested a lot of government facIilities and utilized their supply to build own chemical stuff https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/2...raq-mosul.html
It's not a big stretch to suggest it was some chemical sto rage in case things went awry. You can always blame this stuff on Assad thanks to people like McCain and CNN propagandists

Your article states the usage of chlorine and mustard gas, Sarin is a whole different league, the ingredients necessary for it need special means to deliver and store them safely and a top notch lab environment with highly skilled chemists to synthesize, not something ISIS picks up and loads up in their Toyota pickup truck and abdul cooks up in the basement.

To be honest reading about some of the events that occurred in Syria following the attack, it seems like the Russians were kept in the dark regarding the planned usage and they are pretty damned pissed about it to the point of "mistakenly" dropping the hammer on Iranian back militias and Hezbollah bases in Syria.

[sonololo]

Sarin

http://news.sky.com/story/post-morte...-says-10827071

Here's the wiki page for it if anyone wants it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

You are missing the point.

It is not a sarin, he asks for independent verification what is that chem agent was.

[caervek]

The underlying assumption is that there is only Assad and Islamist extremists in Syria.

That's correct, when we say "moderate" rebels we mean extremists who are not as bad as ISIS, they are still demonstrably worse than the Syrian regime.

[Deleted]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/04/eu...sia-explosion/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ru...-blast-n741961
http://fox61.com/2017/04/03/explosio...ssia-kills-10/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-0...russia/8412634
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...shchad-station

You are not even trying.



The underlying assumption is that there is only Assad and Islamist extremists in Syria. There are still non-extremist rebels and civilians left that could create a more moderate government, but they have have two more heavily armed and more ruthless factions opposing them, while the West watches them being bombed and killed. There are more options, but they can no longer be achieved by Syrians, especially while Assad has Russian backing. Rationalizations like 'if Assad is gone, the IS will take over' are convenient excuses by this point.

Note that I am not a fan of interventionism and would have liked for everyone to stay out of this from the beginning. But the thing is, they did not and escalated stuff. In my opinion, that creates a responsibility to clean up this mess, but I guess that is no longer the currency of politics these days.

Yes there are non extremist groups but as it has been shown in the past 5 years they are unable to hold their ground against extremists. That is unless we decide to actively support them. As in sending people over.
The potential scenarios are Assad stays in power, or extremists (not Isis, more like al nusra which controls idlib by the way) replace him. Fsa is not a viable option unless we send our people over. And that's not gonna happen.

[Shalcker]

Your article states the usage of chlorine and mustard gas, Sarin is a whole different league, the ingredients necessary for it need special means to deliver and store them safely and a top notch lab environment with highly skilled chemists to synthesize, not something ISIS picks up and loads up in their Toyota pickup truck and abdul cooks up in the basement.

To be honest reading about some of the events that occurred in Syria following the attack, it seems like the Russians were kept in the dark regarding the planned usage and they are pretty damned pissed about it to the point of "mistakenly" dropping the hammer on Iranian back militias and Hezbollah bases in Syria.

You also cannot handle sarin victims with unprotected hands as seen in videos of attack aftermath without suffering yourself, it can still linger on clothes and skin...

Also, those guys being given gas masks just a day before attack and saying they are going for media offensive on regime gas use next day? ...how much more blatant can it get, really?

[Deleted]

You also cannot handle sarin victims with unprotected hands as seen in videos of attack aftermath without suffering yourself, it can still linger on clothes and skin...

Also, those guys being given gas masks just a day before attack and saying they are going for media offensive on regime gas use next day? ...how much more blatant can it get, really?

We in Europe are and will be paying for the consequences of what we're doing.

[sonololo]

Sarin is a whole different league, the ingredients necessary for it need special means to deliver and store them safely and a top notch lab environment with highly skilled chemists to synthesize, not something ISIS picks up and loads up in their Toyota pickup truck and abdul cooks up in the basement.

Weeeelllllll you know AUM Shinrikyo managed to manufacture and store the sarin in not-so-top-notch lab environment, and managed to transfer it using packets made from newspaper, but...

Though it isn't a sarin in this case, yes.

[Uzkin]

Except that is not how those kind of weapons function. An attack on a store of chemical weapons would have destroyed them rather than to disperse them. To be effectively dispersed they need to be released in the air above the target.

It is exactly how some chemicals function. The chemical in question only needs to be volatile enough, toxic enough, and stable enough in air for this to happen once its container fails. Something akin to hydrogen cyanide, for example.

Some scenarios, here, in order of decreasing plausibility are:
(1) A broken container of a toxic, volatile substance which was stored in the rebel/terrorist controlled area.
(2) An attempt by the rebels/terrorists to frame Assad, so that the western powers would take military action against him.
(3) An attempt by the US shadow government, lead by Obama and Hillary, to frame Assad as an excuse to start military action against him.
...
(4) Assad deploying chemical weapons at some random location to randomly kill some civilians just for funsies, risking the attack from the US/EU and the removal of support from Russia.

(No, I don't think scenario (3) is very likely, either, but at least in that case there'd be clear motive unlike in scenario (4).)

[Shalcker]

It is exactly how some chemicals function. The chemical in question only needs to be volatile enough, toxic enough, and stable enough in air for this to happen once its container fails. Something akin to hydrogen cyanide, for example.

Some scenarios, here, in order of decreasing plausibility are:
(1) A broken container of a toxic, volatile substance which was stored in the rebel/terrorist controlled area.
(2) An attempt by the rebels/terrorists to frame Assad, so that the western powers would take military action against him.
(3) An attempt by the US shadow government, lead by Obama and Hillary, to frame Assad as an excuse to start military action against him.
...
(4) Assad deploying chemical weapons at some random location to randomly kill some civilians just for funsies, risking the attack from the US/EU and the removal of support from Russia.

(No, I don't think scenario (3) is very likely, either, but at least in that case there'd be clear motive unlike in scenario (4).)

Well, Turkey could also arrange that, among others - there were claims that they used chemical weapons against Kurds, and they are the ones performing autopsies (though so far results of those autopsies are not yet released and the only thing we have is their minister of justice claim they say it was chemical weapons).

[Deleted]

Chemicals were already tried as a ''WMD'' excuse years ago. It didn't work because Assad played their game and invited UN inspectors. Here is Kerry in 2014: https://archive.is/BJLRt

Using chemicals would be immensely stupid. It would serve as an immediate excuse for new US aggression and it would make no sense considering what went down in 2014. But they are muslims, they r dumb right?

If you think Assad used chemicals on his own people you are dumber than a rock.

http://imgur.com/a/CbA3P

- - - Updated - - -

This is what I came up with (caution advised watching this vid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqcsdXFs00c

Assad is killing his people like you kill cockroaches but no one will care...

There are more important things to handle like Israel building in their own capital/land.

Holy shit you are dumb. The fact you had to bring the Israel/Palestine conflict into this when it is completely irrelevant here just shows you are dumber than the lowest life form.

[paralleluniverse]

Trump 2013:

June 15, 2013: We should stay the hell out of Syria, the "rebels" are just as bad as the current regime. WHAT WILL WE GET FOR OUR LIVES AND $ BILLIONS?ZERO

August 29, 2013: @walaa_3ssaf No, dopey, I would not go into Syria, but if I did it would be by surprise and not blurted all over the media like fools.

August 29, 2013: What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval.

September 1, 2013: President Obama's weakness and indecision may have saved us from doing a horrible and very costly (in more ways than money) attack on Syria!

September 2, 2013: If the U.S. attacks Syria and hits the wrong targets, killing civilians, there will be worldwide hell to pay. Stay away and fix broken U.S.

September 3, 2013: What I am saying is stay out of Syria.

September 5, 2013: The only reason President Obama wants to attack Syria is to save face over his very dumb RED LINE statement. Do NOT attack Syria,fix U.S.A.

September 5, 2013: AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!

September 7, 2013: President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your "powder" for another (and more important) day!

September 9, 2013: Don't attack Syria - an attack that will bring nothing but trouble for the U.S. Focus on making our country strong and great again!

In 2013, when Assad gassed 1000 people, Trump demanded Obama do nothing.

Obama did not listen to Trump, instead he acted by destroying almost all of Syria's chemical weapons

In 2017, Trump gives the green light for Assad to gas his people by declaring that Assad can stay. Then when Assad gassed 100 people, flip-flopper Trump says that his views have suddenly changed and that Assad has "crossed a lot of lines", it "crosses many, many lines, beyond a red line, many many lines", and blames it on Obama's inaction. What a hypocrite.

1000 deaths mean nothing. 100 suddenly changes everything.

And now Trump is flailing for a response. He has no plan. He has no clue. He doesn't know what to do. What a moron.

[XangXu]

Syria gasses it's own people.

North Korea fires missles at Japan and threatens to nuke the western world.


United States and UN do nothing... except talk big and call for action that won't come.

But hey, maybe some sanctions will show those pesky human rights violators who is boss right?

Right?

[matt4pack]

Look at all the warmongers in this thread. Of course the right thing is to do nothing.

This is child's play to the carnage that will happen if Assad is out of power especially to Syria's minorities.

[Cuppy]

Syria gasses it's own people.

North Korea fires missles at Japan and threatens to nuke the western world.


United States and UN do nothing... except talk big and call for action that won't come.

But hey, maybe some sanctions will show those pesky human rights violators who is boss right?

Right?

YES! Absolutely! I mean of course the rich investors who don't get their daily million because of sanctions will make the difference.
No more dead civilians, pretty nice lol

[Liftbrul]

Why would Assad use gas at this point of the war, especially when he's winning? By all accounts he seems like a smart and educated man, most likely fully aware of the ramifications of such a blatant (and unnecessary) act.

[caervek]

Why would Assad use gas at this point of the war, especially when he's winning? By all accounts he seems like a smart and educated man, most likely fully aware of the ramifications of such a blatant (and unnecessary) act.

My guess would be because the target was an Al Nursa (AKA Al Qaeda) controlled area, they figured the west wouldn't care.

[Deleted]

My guess would be because the target was an Al Nursa (AKA Al Qaeda) controlled area, they figured the west wouldn't care.

Ah come on. They figured the West wouldn't care?

[Kalis]

Why would Assad use gas at this point of the war, especially when he's winning? By all accounts he seems like a smart and educated man, most likely fully aware of the ramifications of such a blatant (and unnecessary) act.

He got bored of winning, so wanted to ramp up the difficulty level and have the West fight him, by making an utterly pointless chemical weapons attack.