If I wanted to get into FFXIV, where would I start?

[Deleted]

All the story is cool but it seriously does get old. At certain places it becomes too much go across the world to tell a guy hey, then go back to say hello back.

[Melsiren]

The 2.X story fetch quests are real, it gets much, much better when you hit Heavensward.

[Dasffion]

The 2.X story fetch quests are real, it gets much, much better when you hit Heavensward.

Some of those quests pissed me off. I'm a killer of primals, why am I passing out uniforms? The final two quests in ARR make it all worth it though

[Nikkaszal]

The 2.X story fetch quests are real, it gets much, much better when you hit Heavensward.

Oh my god yes, during the 2.X story I was just going "UGGGHHHH JUST END ALREADY"

Conversely, Heavensward is amazing, and I'm following the story enthusiastically. They've worked out the basics of story pacing, flow and direction, instead of being the hideously boring mess that 2.X was

[Saucerian]

It's very easy to get into. They recently removed the time limit on the trial version.

It's designed after WoW so the controls will feel familiar. The first few levels are very simple and tutorial-like.

As others said, the first major difference you'll notice is you can level all classes/jobs on one character. Quests can only be done once, however you get a 50% XP bonus on many things for your other jobs.

And there are lots of ways to level other jobs. FATES (outdoor scenarios), levequests (repeatable quests), "guildhests" (short, simple tutorial dungeons), traditional dungeons, hunts (go to location and kill specific monster). Palace of the Dead - a randomly generated dungeon with special rules (always start at level 1 and only equip what you loot while there, but the XP is scaled and applied to your actual level).

- - - Updated - - -

Moreover the game offers many incentives to existing players to mentor or otherwise help out newbies.

One of my favorite things about it is much of the design seems directed with better player interaction in mind. (No UI customization - mainly to prevent DPS meters - is a big one.)

[Wrecktangle]

Combat is slower, but it works later on because mechanics matter. It is not simply a case of constant damage being taken for the healer to heal, you need to dodge. But early on that slow pace pushes a lot of people away.

Mechanics matter in most games, arguably all if we're speaking to highest levels of content (which I assume we are given your mention of Mythic Thogar).

I know if I am too close to another melee and we cleave empowered eye on people we just killed numerous melee. I know if people are slow to break bonds, that hand of Guldan just erased someone from the map. I could let that electric orb float by and hit the tank in desolate tomb (BNS), but that'd be a one way trip to them being chain lightninged straight to instant death LOL.

Not trying to nitpick your post, just the way I read it (and maybe I'm reaching) came off a bit as in it only applies to FF14. It most certainly does not and you need to dodge in every single game I've ever played.

I agree wholeheartedly that the worst part of the game is the beginning. It's very sluggish and slow, but becomes significantly better the more time you invest in it.

The pug dungeons arent as bad as you try to make it. Typically they run 20-30 minutes. very rarely does someone suck so badly that my groups take longer than 25.

As a finance guy, telling me a dungeon takes anywhere from 20-25% longer because someone is derping doesn't inspire confidence. While it's true that practically speaking its only 5 minutes, hardly the end of the world, it just feels so slow when people aren't pulling their weight. Sometimes you REALLY can feel the run slowing down to a crawl. Using made up statistics derived from purely anecdotal evidence I'd say roughly 70% of the people I saw in DF were doing less than half of what they could do with their gear. Measured by ACT.

Most of the endgame savage raids are reminiscent of thogar mythic train schedule memorization. Be in the right place or die. At that point you are thankful for the methodical combat instead of high speed whackamole. I would agree that they are harder in that there is much more accountability for each player. FF requires all 8 people playing well, most wow mythic fights can afford some sloppyness and still pull off a kill with people on the floor.

I agree that in general I found FF14 Savage content to be harder than 80%+ of say Wow's Mythic. The main reason being as you said, that every single player must play generally perfectly otherwise its a wipe. In WoW you can often recover through some semblance of finesse/gear, etc.

That said I don't see how the slow combat is a boon here. I am perfectly capable of handling a dps rotation, positioning, and responding to mechanics just fine lol, and I'm nothing special. As such, I imagine a significant # of players also would be. Whether or not it's a better design paradigm is a whole other discussion.

Tanks * at max lvl * begin to focus more and more on dps. Stance dpsing into dps stance to balance threat and survival with maximizing output.

healers *mainly at max* learn to stance dance between healing and doing damage, good ones significantly affect how a dungeon or raid goes shaving minutes off a run doing roughly 1/3 the dps of a competent damage dealer.

DPS actually has complex rotations to work with, it is mentioned many dps suck, they do, and that is because dps rotations are long and small mistakes cost big dps. DPS is IMO the hardest role to play well in this game with only a few exceptions.

This is also accurate IMO. One thing I would note is that Tanks are shit fucking boring in this game. IMO of course. Tanking in WoW was better.

[Katchii]

Mechanics matter in most games, arguably all if we're speaking to highest levels of content (which I assume we are given your mention of Mythic Thogar).

I know if I am too close to another melee and we cleave empowered eye on people we just killed numerous melee. I know if people are slow to break bonds, that hand of Guldan just erased someone from the map. I could let that electric orb float by and hit the tank in desolate tomb (BNS), but that'd be a one way trip to them being chain lightninged straight to instant death LOL.

Not trying to nitpick your post, just the way I read it (and maybe I'm reaching) came off a bit as in it only applies to FF14. It most certainly does not and you need to dodge in every single game I've ever played.

I agree wholeheartedly that the worst part of the game is the beginning. It's very sluggish and slow, but becomes significantly better the more time you invest in it.



As a finance guy, telling me a dungeon takes anywhere from 20-25% longer because someone is derping doesn't inspire confidence. While it's true that practically speaking its only 5 minutes, hardly the end of the world, it just feels so slow when people aren't pulling their weight. Sometimes you REALLY can feel the run slowing down to a crawl. Using made up statistics derived from purely anecdotal evidence I'd say roughly 70% of the people I saw in DF were doing less than half of what they could do with their gear. Measured by ACT.



I agree that in general I found FF14 Savage content to be harder than 80%+ of say Wow's Mythic. The main reason being as you said, that every single player must play generally perfectly otherwise its a wipe. In WoW you can often recover through some semblance of finesse/gear, etc.

That said I don't see how the slow combat is a boon here. I am perfectly capable of handling a dps rotation, positioning, and responding to mechanics just fine lol, and I'm nothing special. As such, I imagine a significant # of players also would be. Whether or not it's a better design paradigm is a whole other discussion.



This is also accurate IMO. One thing I would note is that Tanks are shit fucking boring in this game. IMO of course. Tanking in WoW was better.

Couple comments:

1) I think the slower combat really just drives the point home that encounter mechanics are deliberate and slow, just like the combat, and feel more dangerous or punishing as a result. In WoW, most mechanics/ fights FEEL really frenetic, nothing slows down, things just happen and in a lot of cases if you don't do exactly the right thing at exactly the right time but still get some semblance of it correct you'll be able to recover. In FFXIV it seems more often than not that the build up is deliberate and slow and then when it's finally time to move/ change/ whatever...if you don't execute exactly right you wipe or get into a spot you just can't reover from. This isn't 100% true, just saying in general that's how the fights feel different.

2) I like tanking in FFXIV more than in WoW, keeping threat and enemy positioning just feels more deliberate and purposeful. In WoW, it feels...artificial? No work to do, just target something and attack it and you don't have to worry about threat...just be situationally aware and that's it. They are essentially the same, but the slow deliberate FEEL of it in FFXIV makes it more satisfying to me vs what can sometimes feel in WoW's frenetic environment like a chicken with your head cut off.

[Nikkaszal]

The difference with tanking in WoW and FFXIV is pretty simple:

FF focuses on threat gen and DPS as your main goals, with some focus on mitigation (usually just keeping up buffs etc, and longer CDs to deal with spikes of damage)

WoW focuses instead on tanks using their slew of active mitigation tools to not go splat. Vengeance Demon Hunters are the best example of this, as their skillcap is based on (a) Pain and Fragment generation and efficiency, (b) smart uptime of the Demon Spikes mitigation, (c) EFFECTIVE selfhealing with Soul Cleave and Barrier and (d) using their army of mitigation abilities to weave in between Spikes downtimes.

In FF you're expected to survive with minimal effort, and need to focus on keeping threat. In WoW, you're expected to hold threat with minimal effort, and need to focus on surviving.

[Melsiren]

I personally enjoyed the MoP (and to a lesser extent WoD tanking, only because I was a Paladin tank and had a hardon for the flow of Serph and the Libram of Vindication shenanigans.) because the focus- on the hardcore scene was milking out as much dps as possible.

I loved the fast pace high risk high reward tanking style.

[Nikkaszal]

I personally enjoyed the MoP (and to a lesser extent WoD tanking, only because I was a Paladin tank and had a hardon for the flow of Serph and the Libram of Vindication shenanigans.) because the focus- on the hardcore scene was milking out as much dps as possible.

I loved the fast pace high risk high reward tanking style.

Being a Brewmaster Monk was fun when you were consistently top DPS when tanking more than one target. Top by a LONG way.

I still remember that fight in HOF where you had the 10-ish targets you were meant to CC and burn one at a time, and when it got to the stage where I just tanked everything at once and we AoEd it down, I would end up with like 40% of the entire raid's damage done

Good time.

[Melsiren]

Being a Brewmaster Monk was fun when you were consistently top DPS when tanking more than one target. Top by a LONG way.

I still remember that fight in HOF where you had the 10-ish targets you were meant to CC and burn one at a time, and when it got to the stage where I just tanked everything at once and we AoEd it down, I would end up with like 40% of the entire raid's damage done

Good time.

Solo tanking Wind Lord was amazing, I was a Paladin tank and had very Similar results.

Vengeance was the most fun, yet the most broken tank mechanic ever. At the start of SoO they buffed Eternal Flame and nerfed Sacred shield, when you vengeance cheesed right every tick of Eternal flame did roughly 600k healing. Only lasted about 2 weeks but those two weeks I was gloriously invincible.


I won't even begin to fanboy over solo soaking Malkorok's Blood rages...

..... RIP Vengeance.

Come to think of it I think the reason I enjoy WAR tanking in FF14 is because Zerk windows remind me so much of Serphim windows from WoD Paladin.


Any ways, I'm getting way off topic.

[Wrecktangle]

Couple comments:

1) I think the slower combat really just drives the point home that encounter mechanics are deliberate and slow, just like the combat, and feel more dangerous or punishing as a result. In WoW, most mechanics/ fights FEEL really frenetic, nothing slows down, things just happen and in a lot of cases if you don't do exactly the right thing at exactly the right time but still get some semblance of it correct you'll be able to recover. In FFXIV it seems more often than not that the build up is deliberate and slow and then when it's finally time to move/ change/ whatever...if you don't execute exactly right you wipe or get into a spot you just can't reover from. This isn't 100% true, just saying in general that's how the fights feel different.

In top raiding in both games during progression, messing up mechanics leads to a wipe, guaranteed. Once you outgear it there becomes a little more room for recovery in WoW than FF14 (a lot more instant fail mechanics, but as I said, I'm not positive one way or the other is "better". I know which one I personally prefer though.

2) I like tanking in FFXIV more than in WoW, keeping threat and enemy positioning just feels more deliberate and purposeful. In WoW, it feels...artificial? No work to do, just target something and attack it and you don't have to worry about threat...just be situationally aware and that's it. They are essentially the same, but the slow deliberate FEEL of it in FFXIV makes it more satisfying to me vs what can sometimes feel in WoW's frenetic environment like a chicken with your head cut off.

Threat is kinda boring IMO. I never had issues holding threat in this game. I even tanked in DPS stance as a PLD half the time to see if it made a difference and it didn't. This is assuming equal gear. I don't go tanking runs as a i200 tank with i270 dps, that's just stupid. The 270 dps could tank whatever I was attempting to do at that point anyway. Positioning in WoW feels artificial and it feels purposeful in FF14? I think you have that backwards. The movement code in FF14 is so circa 1998 and unresponsive lol that moving bosses/enemies just feels awkward and intuitive.

I agree in WoW tanking trivial content is a snore fest. It is in FF14 too. No incoming damage, so managing threat is your only job. In WoW there's no damage and no threat. So I could see your point here.

If we're speaking to actual engaging content then your post shows some cracks IMO.

The difference with tanking in WoW and FFXIV is pretty simple:

FF focuses on threat gen and DPS as your main goals, with some focus on mitigation (usually just keeping up buffs etc, and longer CDs to deal with spikes of damage)

WoW focuses instead on tanks using their slew of active mitigation tools to not go splat. Vengeance Demon Hunters are the best example of this, as their skillcap is based on (a) Pain and Fragment generation and efficiency, (b) smart uptime of the Demon Spikes mitigation, (c) EFFECTIVE selfhealing with Soul Cleave and Barrier and (d) using their army of mitigation abilities to weave in between Spikes downtimes.

In FF you're expected to survive with minimal effort, and need to focus on keeping threat. In WoW, you're expected to hold threat with minimal effort, and need to focus on surviving.

Excellent insight here.

I personally enjoyed the MoP (and to a lesser extent WoD tanking, only because I was a Paladin tank and had a hardon for the flow of Serph and the Libram of Vindication shenanigans.) because the focus- on the hardcore scene was milking out as much dps as possible.

I loved the fast pace high risk high reward tanking style.

Same here, I just wish PLD had that gameplay model I love the aesthetic, hate the gameplay.

[Katchii]

In top raiding in both games during progression, messing up mechanics leads to a wipe, guaranteed. Once you outgear it there becomes a little more room for recovery in WoW than FF14 (a lot more instant fail mechanics, but as I said, I'm not positive one way or the other is "better". I know which one I personally prefer though.



Threat is kinda boring IMO. I never had issues holding threat in this game. I even tanked in DPS stance as a PLD half the time to see if it made a difference and it didn't. This is assuming equal gear. I don't go tanking runs as a i200 tank with i270 dps, that's just stupid. The 270 dps could tank whatever I was attempting to do at that point anyway. Positioning in WoW feels artificial and it feels purposeful in FF14? I think you have that backwards. The movement code in FF14 is so circa 1998 and unresponsive lol that moving bosses/enemies just feels awkward and intuitive.

I agree in WoW tanking trivial content is a snore fest. It is in FF14 too. No incoming damage, so managing threat is your only job. In WoW there's no damage and no threat. So I could see your point here.

If we're speaking to actual engaging content then your post shows some cracks IMO.



Excellent insight here.



Same here, I just wish PLD had that gameplay model I love the aesthetic, hate the gameplay.

I'll admit, the majority of my tanking experience is from content that's not leading edge. ie dungeons, LFR or 24 man raids and the 8 man trials/ raids once they are at least one tier behind current or otherwise pretty trivial. Neither feels "great" but I just like the way FFXIV tanking feels over WoW tanking in this area...it just feels better to me. In WoW it usually boils down to dropping your AoE running in and starting your regular/ only rotation with little or no regard to what you're targeting and no one (unless they taunt) can pull anything off of you. In FFXIV you have to be pretty deliberate about how and when you drop your AoE, what you're targeting and cycling through the enemies otherwise it's possible your healer might get aggro or an overzealous DPS attacking the wrong mob could pull it off of you. It's not hard in either case, but in FFXIV there's just enough extra to do and think about to make it that much more interesting. Positioning is critical in both, so that's really no different in either, except in FFXIV consistent placement of the boss helps the group due to every melee DPS having positional requirements where as in WoW there's just 2? right? and I thought they even changed how those positionals worked to make it even easier.

The proper rotations just kind of come naturally to me so surviving/ mitigating isn't an issue. My job is to tank, so I focus on keeping my mitigation up and appropriately managing my cooldowns and active mitigation abilities. I honestly just don't like tanking in the leading edge content because I prefer to DPS there, I find DPS more satisfying in this area...and less stressful personally.

Regardless, I'm not saying one is better, harder, easier or whatever I'm just saying I like how FFXIV tanking feels over WoW. Though I love leveling as a tank in WoW...leveling as a tank in FFXIV compared to a DPS is kind of painful to me...just feels so much slower.

[Kazgrel]

I'll admit, the majority of my tanking experience is from content that's not leading edge. ie dungeons, LFR or 24 man raids and the 8 man trials/ raids once they are at least one tier behind current or otherwise pretty trivial. Neither feels "great" but I just like the way FFXIV tanking feels over WoW tanking in this area...it just feels better to me. In WoW it usually boils down to dropping your AoE running in and starting your regular/ only rotation with little or no regard to what you're targeting and no one (unless they taunt) can pull anything off of you. In FFXIV you have to be pretty deliberate about how and when you drop your AoE, what you're targeting and cycling through the enemies otherwise it's possible your healer might get aggro or an overzealous DPS attacking the wrong mob could pull it off of you. It's not hard in either case, but in FFXIV there's just enough extra to do and think about to make it that much more interesting. Positioning is critical in both, so that's really no different in either, except in FFXIV consistent placement of the boss helps the group due to every melee DPS having positional requirements where as in WoW there's just 2? right? and I thought they even changed how those positionals worked to make it even easier.

The proper rotations just kind of come naturally to me so surviving/ mitigating isn't an issue. My job is to tank, so I focus on keeping my mitigation up and appropriately managing my cooldowns and active mitigation abilities. I honestly just don't like tanking in the leading edge content because I prefer to DPS there, I find DPS more satisfying in this area...and less stressful personally.

Regardless, I'm not saying one is better, harder, easier or whatever I'm just saying I like how FFXIV tanking feels over WoW. Though I love leveling as a tank in WoW...leveling as a tank in FFXIV compared to a DPS is kind of painful to me...just feels so much slower.

But those instant dungeon queues, though...j/k, get those in wow as a tank also.

Leveling a tank in full heirloom gear is the most comical thing; pretty much don't even need any other dps with you with how much damage they can output when leveling up. Yeah, it's not that broken at max level, but it's still quite comical.

Tanking is a secondary job/role I fill here, as it was in WoW, and I much prefer tanking here for one reason: Mobs don't skate all over the fucking place here when you stand still. Nothing irritated me more in WoW than pulling a few mobs, then having them randomly wander behind me for no reason, and as I would adjust, so would the mobs...then the melee dps had to do the same.

[Katchii]

But those instant dungeon queues, though...j/k, get those in wow as a tank also.

Leveling a tank in full heirloom gear is the most comical thing; pretty much don't even need any other dps with you with how much damage they can output when leveling up. Yeah, it's not that broken at max level, but it's still quite comical.

Tanking is a secondary job/role I fill here, as it was in WoW, and I much prefer tanking here for one reason: Mobs don't skate all over the fucking place here when you stand still. Nothing irritated me more in WoW than pulling a few mobs, then having them randomly wander behind me for no reason, and as I would adjust, so would the mobs...then the melee dps had to do the same.

I remember leveling my Paladin in full heirloom gear and watching my Recount...was hilarious seeing my damage output be ~50% of the total output of the entire dungeon, with many of the DPS being ~10-15%. The worst is when you're in lower dungeons with DoT based classes so your total damage is like 60%+ because theirs is so terrible since everything dies so fast.

I was actually more referring to Legion leveling from 100-110 and then even the 110 Suramar questing. So much mob density that being a relatively squishy DPS is exceedingly frustrating because one extra mob you didn't plan for can spell death especially at the fresh 110 gear levels until ~850 or so in my experience except for Warlocks and BM Hunters due to their pets. As a tank you just yawn and carry on, and throw out an additional self heal or two. DH don't even need to think about it since their self heals are built into their rotations anyway.

Went from leveling my DH tank to my fresh 100 Rogue and flipped my shit. DH was roflstomping through everything where my Rogue was having difficulty completing the first quests in Azshara because I could barely manage 2 enemies at the same time. The difference was just depressing.

[Wrecktangle]

Positioning is critical in both, so that's really no different in either, except in FFXIV consistent placement of the boss helps the group due to every melee DPS having positional requirements where as in WoW there's just 2? right? and I thought they even changed how those positionals worked to make it even easier.

I don't really remember many fights that require even a ton of re-positioning in FF14. Most FF14 re-positioning is done once every 30s+, or not at all. WoW typically requires re-positioning much more often IMO. Honestly I feel that the positionals system is pretty lackluster in FF14. They've already nerfed it several times from its original iteration to make it more accessible and less impactful. I'd prefer they retool that depth elsewhere and scrap the positionals IMO. With what? I have no idea haha.

Tanking is a secondary job/role I fill here, as it was in WoW, and I much prefer tanking here for one reason: Mobs don't skate all over the fucking place here when you stand still. Nothing irritated me more in WoW than pulling a few mobs, then having them randomly wander behind me for no reason, and as I would adjust, so would the mobs...then the melee dps had to do the same.

To be fair adjusting as a melee DPS in WoW is over 6782 times better than in FF14. Your attack ranges are both responsive and intuitive. In FF14? Nope. The movement desync is a hot mess that makes it very difficult to hit moving mobs and unintuitive to determine the appropriate location to do so (you can do it, and a good player will, but it's quite possibly the furthest thing from intuitive).

On one hand though, I don't actually mind the mobs repositioning themselves, it keeps me on my toes. I could however see how that would annoy someone.

Went from leveling my DH tank to my fresh 100 Rogue and flipped my shit. DH was roflstomping through everything where my Rogue was having difficulty completing the first quests in Azshara because I could barely manage 2 enemies at the same time. The difference was just depressing.

I don't remember having issues with multiple mobs at 100 at all. I do remember struggling a bit at 110 in Suramar City though where tanks cleaned house. (Ret Pal here).

I'm personally ok with tanks being more powerful, anything to get more people playing them, but I can see where some wouldn't.

Also got my challenge appearance after 6 tries, but apparently mine was the easy one.

[Kazgrel]

To be fair adjusting as a melee DPS in WoW is over 6782 times better than in FF14. Your attack ranges are both responsive and intuitive. In FF14? Nope. The movement desync is a hot mess that makes it very difficult to hit moving mobs and unintuitive to determine the appropriate location to do so (you can do it, and a good player will, but it's quite possibly the furthest thing from intuitive).

On one hand though, I don't actually mind the mobs repositioning themselves, it keeps me on my toes. I could however see how that would annoy someone.

Hah, yeah...that is by far and away one of the more irritating things about FF14's engine/mechanics; better be spamming whatever attack you want to do at 100 keypresses a second in order for it to go off on a target that's running/moving by. Particularly irritating if you're playing MNK and trying to hit something to keep Greased Lightning stacks up...only to have it running after someone else and constantly get "target out of range".

[Katchii]

Hah, yeah...that is by far and away one of the more irritating things about FF14's engine/mechanics; better be spamming whatever attack you want to do at 100 keypresses a second in order for it to go off on a target that's running/moving by. Particularly irritating if you're playing MNK and trying to hit something to keep Greased Lightning stacks up...only to have it running after someone else and constantly get "target out of range".

Agreed, the mob placement sync while moving is ridiculous. I can literally be running right next to the mob and spamming my attack and it won't go off or start a cast while the mob is WELL within range and have it go of range out at the last second and then my cast gets interrupted. I can also be in the center of a group while running, use Miasma II (self centered point blank AoE attack for those who may not know) and it only hit maybe the last one in the train who is well behind me.