Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I didn't want to include Betsy and Skarr since they are not simple "Hulks". I had forgotten that Jennifer got truncated to a mere Hulk and is now clenching her teeth in Batmanesqe rage.

Id count skarr as if you take away the gama like they did in the doc green arch he can't hulk out and is just an alien teen. Can't say I know the first thing about Betsy.

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There's a difference between diversity in comics books and changing main characters(Thor woman, black Spiderman etc.) to pleasure idiots.

Miles was the best thing to ever happen to the ultimate universe, there's a reason they scraped every thing but him bomb shell and the ultimate Thor's hammer.

[Xires]

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7662771.html

Wait? You mean changing long known super heroes into something they are not had a negative effect? Whaaaaat???

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Haven't we heard this before?

-Daredevil movie does poorly: "People must not like Daredevil movies"
-Catwoman movie does poorly: "People must not like female superhero movies"

No kidding, right? Everything is about race/gender/sexual orientation with the left wing.

[Jayburner]

To be fair, most of its not computer generated. Colouring and lettering and sometimes inking are but that's not quite the same thing. Hell Byrne actually has his own custom font for computer lettering.

I generally prefer modern stuff but that's because there is much more diversity in styles. Scott McCloud presented his art style triangle for comics, I see some people only prefer one corner (invariably the realistic part) whereas I want the whole damn thing.

you kind of lost me on this triangle thing.

[Ivanstone]

you kind of lost me on this triangle thing.

[Jayburner]

my cataracts are really fucking me up looking at that. cliff notes?

[Ivanstone]

my cataracts are really fucking me up looking at that. cliff notes?

Notes are on the image although I don't think I can find a bigger version with google. If you don't want to a buy a copy of Understanding Comics, you can probably get one at your local library.

Kirby appears roughly in the middle. He's most certainly not a realist but he's not flat out cartoony either. His art also leans heavily on using geometric shapes.

http://scottmccloud.com/4-inventions/triangle/

[Jayburner]

Notes are on the image although I don't think I can find a bigger version with google. If you don't want to a buy a copy of Understanding Comics, you can probably get one at your local library.

Kirby appears roughly in the middle. He's most certainly not a realist but he's not flat out cartoony either. His art also leans heavily on using geometric shapes.

http://scottmccloud.com/4-inventions/triangle/

dude man. I've been reading comic books since I was born in 1969.

[Alfador]

Are you confusing Gizmodo with Gawker?

There's nothing to confuse. Gizmodo Media is the direct remnant of Gawker Media, shoveled to a new owner when Gawker finally took its agenda pushing and yellow journalism across legal lines. Everyone who worked at Gawker save Denton found save haven in other publications at the network if they wanted it, and between various sub-blogs they've picked up basically every piece of Gawker's dirtywork.
Aside from having the typical critical thinking flaws of any ideological echo-chamber, they also just utterly lack credibility to draw conclusions or quote sources with regard to a topic such as this. If Giz/Gawker/etc wants to cite a more credible outside source, I'll certainly give that some credence, as would I the conclusions of nearly anybody else, though I am still loath to accept the thesis ripped from an article as someone's argument on here when they can't be bothered to present one themselves. It's lazy and unconvincing when the most compelling argument for something is grafted from another word for word.

Getting back to the topic at hand though... Honestly, at least half of the characters caught up in this I actually like as is. I'm completely cool with the way the Thor storyline is going despite all the arguments about what defines worthiness and whatever. I fucking adore the Spider Gwen angle and have no issue with Morales. Where it becomes a problem is that it's clearly moved beyond creative diversity into a formula that they're hammering home wherever they can get away with it. As a result it's becoming forced and very very grating. I won't step back from the statement that the problem this time is in fact diversity, because that time it the formula is diversity, but it's a very comc-book problem and one that we could have just as easily seen with another less controversial flavor of the month. Of course the vocal, apparent minority of fans who think that this vapid broad-brush approach is the best thing ever clearly aren't helping things in their own right, when the topic of the hour of the last couple days was how horrible it is that the name for the least compelling and most shoehorned member of this spanish-text-book-cover revolution had already been used once before by a third party that nobody had ever heard of and still wouldn't have heard of if people didn't go out of their way looking for shit to be pissed about.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Wait? You mean changing long known super heroes into something they are not had a negative effect? Whaaaaat???

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No kidding, right? Everything is about race/gender/sexual orientation with the left wing.

plz tell me one hero they made into some they are not, not counting iceman.

[Dhrizzle]

There Have been I think 6 hulks at once. Hulk. Red hulk she hulk red she hulk skarr son of hulk and what's her face hulks duaghter from the futer.

Savage She-hulk, and wasn't A-Bomb around at the same time, along with Banners other alien son who inherited his mother's powers?

I remember it being a pretty cool run as Banner was mostly suppressing the Hulk and relying on tech at the time, had a cool moment where he managed to impress Wolverine by having a portal in his bag that lead to a fridge full of beer.

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There's nothing to confuse. Gizmodo Media is the direct remnant of Gawker Media, shoveled to a new owner when Gawker finally took its agenda pushing and yellow journalism across legal lines. Everyone who worked at Gawker save Denton found save haven in other publications at the network if they wanted it, and between various sub-blogs they've picked up basically every piece of Gawker's dirtywork.
Aside from having the typical critical thinking flaws of any ideological echo-chamber, they also just utterly lack credibility to draw conclusions or quote sources with regard to a topic such as this. If Giz/Gawker/etc wants to cite a more credible outside source, I'll certainly give that some credence, as would I the conclusions of nearly anybody else, though I am still loath to accept the thesis ripped from an article as someone's argument on here when they can't be bothered to present one themselves. It's lazy and unconvincing when the most compelling argument for something is grafted from another word for word.

No what I meant is Gawker is the celebrity gossip rag that got shut down by Hogan, Gizmodo is the tech/science/geeky blog. Saying you don't like Gizmodo because Gawker published a sex-tape is like saying you won't watch the Simpsons because of their heavily right-leaning news coverage.

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I dunno if this was already mentioned but the day the "diversity bad" article went out Fortune ran a feature/interview on Axel Alonso saying how well diversity had worked out for Marvel.

Also David Gabriel added this to the original interview as apparently he didn't quite give out the message he wanted to,

"Discussed candidly by some of the retailers at the summit, we heard that some were not happy with the false abandonment of the core Marvel heroes and, contrary to what some said about characters “not working,” the sticking factor and popularity for a majority of these new titles and characters like Squirrel Girl, Ms. Marvel, The Mighty Thor, Spider-Gwen, Miles Morales, and Moon Girl, continue to prove that our fans and retailers ARE excited about these new heroes. And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel Universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

"We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! They've invigorated their own customer base and helped them grow their stores because of it. So we're getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we're making is to ensure we don't lose focus of our core heroes."

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I haven't read the comic.

Which means you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Dhrizzle]

Yeah maybe they should realise you don't pull the rug from under your fans in favour of people who claim they're fans just to virtue signal, and expect good results.

"Virtue signaling" - still my favourite autology.

Oh and I really wanted a bastardisation of Gwen Stacy. Yep. Great. Thanks for that Marvel.

Y'know Spider-Gwen was originally one of many, many multi-dimensional spider-heroes who only got her own book because fans really liked her, right?

[Dhrizzle]

Spider-Man is now Iron Man.

Is he using the Iron Spider or Spider-Armour suit?

Fans liked her so much they didn't buy any of the comics and instead just fawn over image macros.

Also its regardless of who likes her, my point was that Spider-Gwen is a bastardisation of the original character, but ofcourse in your almighty knowledge of comic books you already knew that didn't you.

Are you really complaining that Marvel sometimes put out alternate versions of characters in alternate universes? If that's an issue you must really hate the past few decades of comics.

[Thetruth1400]

Most of them dont matter but what does matter was making some of the main characters in the marvel verse another race/gender and just killing them off. Hulk/Tony stark for example. They shoulda stayed doing what they were doing like what they did with spiderman and d.c has done with new heros. You keep the old just make the new ones their own hero. Dont replace them make someone to rival them

Agreed. I don't think the problem is diversity, it's diversity for diversity sake. "Oh hey, this was your old, favorite super hero? Yeah, we're changing it to meet some imaginary diversity quota." They needed to just create new characters and leave the current ones alone. For ones that it makes sense to pass the torch, yeah, maybe changing one or two of them is okay. For others, changing just to say "Hey, we're diverse!" didn't cut it.

[apepi]

It is not that people don't want diversity, it is the fact that people want diverse heroes that are not just copies of heroes that we already have. People don't want a female Thor or etc, what they want is a new superhero ip that is not indicative of a super hero that is already exist. Companies seem to just make these pseudo some like already like heroes but a little different because it is easy to market a hero you already know rather than a brand new one.

[Sunseeker]

Also its regardless of who likes her, my point was that Spider-Gwen is a bastardisation of the original character, but ofcourse in your almighty knowledge of comic books you already knew that didn't you.

And the "original character" is only dead because some editor came along and didn't like her competing for Queen Mary Jane's spider.

There are a number of things worth bitching about in comic-land. The fact that an alternate-reality version of a dead character is not dead and gets cool powers and all that combined SELLS COMICS is probably a poor target. Spider-Gwen only got a comic after her initial short because she was popular and let me repeat: SOLD BOOKS.

Characters like Spider Gwen are not what the OP are talking about.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Savage She-hulk, and wasn't A-Bomb around at the same time, along with Banners other alien son who inherited his mother's powers?

I remember it being a pretty cool run as Banner was mostly suppressing the Hulk and relying on tech at the time, had a cool moment where he managed to impress Wolverine by having a portal in his bag that lead to a fridge full of beer.

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No what I meant is Gawker is the celebrity gossip rag that got shut down by Hogan, Gizmodo is the tech/science/geeky blog. Saying you don't like Gizmodo because Gawker published a sex-tape is like saying you won't watch the Simpsons because of their heavily right-leaning news coverage.

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I dunno if this was already mentioned but the day the "diversity bad" article went out Fortune ran a feature/interview on Axel Alonso saying how well diversity had worked out for Marvel.

Also David Gabriel added this to the original interview as apparently he didn't quite give out the message he wanted to,

"Discussed candidly by some of the retailers at the summit, we heard that some were not happy with the false abandonment of the core Marvel heroes and, contrary to what some said about characters “not working,” the sticking factor and popularity for a majority of these new titles and characters like Squirrel Girl, Ms. Marvel, The Mighty Thor, Spider-Gwen, Miles Morales, and Moon Girl, continue to prove that our fans and retailers ARE excited about these new heroes. And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel Universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

"We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! They've invigorated their own customer base and helped them grow their stores because of it. So we're getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we're making is to ensure we don't lose focus of our core heroes."

i don't think the hulks other son was a hulk or atlest i don't remember him being able to hulk out like skarr could.

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Spider-Man is now Iron Man.

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Fans liked her so much they didn't buy any of the comics and instead just fawn over image macros.

Also its regardless of who likes her, my point was that Spider-Gwen is a bastardisation of the original character, but ofcourse in your almighty knowledge of comic books you already knew that didn't you.

more like batman id say, but i'm talking about in terms of there diversity related characters. miles has been around for so long you can't really say pete being like batman is because of him.

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It is not that people don't want diversity, it is the fact that people want diverse heroes that are not just copies of heroes that we already have. People don't want a female Thor or etc, what they want is a new superhero ip that is not indicative of a super hero that is already exist. Companies seem to just make these pseudo some like already like heroes but a little different because it is easy to market a hero you already know rather than a brand new one.

i mean other then names and costumes there not copies of any of the other heroes.

[Fencers]

Comics publishing has a massive problem with service and quality. The diversity thing is just for headlines- they're not that diverse really.

- Comics are expensive as fuck
- Tons of meaningless crossovers
- Stupid events every year
- Too many dropped series
- Still tons of delays
- No day & date distro
- Digital services are restrictive
- Value per dollar is low (22 pages)
- Trade market lacks clarity for consumers

The business is too strongly tied to print and brick & mortar distribution.

[Stormcall]

First she has has not taken his place all she has done is taken his costume to honour him, she is in no way just copying him she is still acting as her own person, there is no reason why he can't stay her own character and wear his costume. Right after his dead she put the yellow and blue highlights in her hair there's no reason this is any different then that her way of honouring him, even in her comics she's dealing with her own problems like the recent arch of
Her dealing with her old handler. Her character has evolved over the years changed as she has grown into an adult It makes fine sense that she would come to better grips with what Logan Met to her as she is no longer a child or a teen.

Except, she's NOT staying her own character. That's the problem. She's literally calling herself the person she was designed as, wearing his costume, and trying to be him. That all goes exactly opposite to her personality.

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Are you really complaining that Marvel sometimes put out alternate versions of characters in alternate universes? If that's an issue you must really hate the past few decades of comics.

Yeah, Spider-Gwen is basically a "what-if?" story(which Marvel has been doing since 1977) that was popular enough to get it's own series, which takes place in a different universe(mostly) and doesn't affect what happened to Gwen in the "main" universe at all.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except, she's NOT staying her own character. That's the problem. She's literally calling herself the person she was designed as, wearing his costume, and trying to be him. That all goes exactly opposite to her personality.

i disagree just because shes calling her self wolverine doesn't mean shes trying to be him, shes not fighting wolverine villans shes not acting like him. as far as trying to be him the only real thing shes doing the same as him is being on an xmen team witch she was before his death, and having a clone of her own witch i don't really get, other then that she has in no way acted like Logan.