Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Endus]

Except, she's NOT staying her own character. That's the problem. She's literally calling herself the person she was designed as, wearing his costume, and trying to be him. That all goes exactly opposite to her personality.

You've somehow got a core component of both Laura and Logan's stories and personalities entirely backwards.

The Weapon X program tried to turn them both into living weapons. Both of them fought against that, and became their own individuals. X-23 wasn't trying to avoid being Wolverine. She was trying to avoid being the weapon that Logan also has avoided becoming. She wanted some separation from Logan because, having grown up in such a controlled environment, she wanted to be completely free to find herself, without her clone-dad providing a constant pattern for her to model herself after.

But she got past that. That's called "character development".

[Sunseeker]

But she got past that. That's called "character development".

I thought it was called putting hot chicks in tight spandex?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I thought it was called putting hot chicks in tight spandex?

no reason it cant be both.

[Stormspark]

If they want female or non-white superheros, create some original ones. People do not want existing characters gender or race flipped for no reason other than to have token minorities. If they are interesting superheroes with good stories, I don't give a rat's ass what color or gender they are.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If they want female or non-white superheros, create some original ones. People do not want existing characters gender or race flipped for no reason other than to have token minorities. If they are interesting superheroes with good stories, I don't give a rat's ass what color or gender they are.

All of them are new original heros no one has been race or gender flipped.

[Endus]

All of them are new original heros no one has been race or gender flipped.

This is what I just don't get about their argument. Literally every single one of these are unique characters. The closest you get to a "flip" is with X-23, and from her origin, she's been written COMPLETELY differently from Logan, who she's literally cloned from. And they gave her more than a decade of independent development before Logan died, and she took up the mantle of Wolverine in his honor. There was no cheese, and they firmly established her as an independent character. Hell, that Laura was a part of the Logan movie was 80% of why I wanted to see it, since she's one of my favorite new characters. In the few cases where there's some oddness going on, like with Thor, that oddness is the central theme of the entire book. It isn't being swept under. It's VERY clear, and constantly referenced, that FemThor is not the Odinson. Nobody is confused about that, and nobody's ignoring it. Pretending that they "flipped" Thor's gender is so completely wrongheaded that you'd have to be completely ignorant of the storyline in question to make that claim.

You might not LIKE the particular storyline. There's a lot of duds, in Marvel's stuff, even if there's sometimes gold as well. That doesn't mean these particular changes are bad in and of themselves, for involving apparent shifts in those stories.

They're literally complaining about character development. I just don't get it.

[ati87]

Manga sales are down because people could no longer stand any more Jap no balls MC's, you will see more and more korean manhwa and chinese manhua in the market now (get ready for villains that get mad, because the MC gives them no face lol) go check www.novelupdates.com to see top list of what people are reading...

You think that Japanse are reading Chinese and Korean stuff instead of weekly shonen jump? Yea manga sales in japan are going down for ages now before the rise of Korean stuff which is recent (judging by my manga app).

People aren't reading and buying stuff like they used to, especially compared to the 90s, because if something is good on paper you can almost be sure they will make a movie out of it within a few years and in cases of manga's/light novels a anime.

[Shadowferal]

No, comics don't need digital and movies (or tv) to survive. There was neither of those in the 90's.

Which was the reason why things went so downhill so fast...(8k US stores in the 80s down to 2k in the 90s)

Comics have mostly compressed to a niche market. The people buying them do actually like them and its enough to keep it afloat.

Changing the media formats were what saved them from going belly up.
You can't go from the big boom of selling millions of print copies to a fraction of that without needing to change the entire way of doing business or else go bankrupt.
But then that's related to what's been going on with the more generic book store, such as Borders.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This is what I just don't get about their argument. Literally every single one of these are unique characters. The closest you get to a "flip" is with X-23, and from her origin, she's been written COMPLETELY differently from Logan, who she's literally cloned from. And they gave her more than a decade of independent development before Logan died, and she took up the mantle of Wolverine in his honor. There was no cheese, and they firmly established her as an independent character. Hell, that Laura was a part of the Logan movie was 80% of why I wanted to see it, since she's one of my favorite new characters. In the few cases where there's some oddness going on, like with Thor, that oddness is the central theme of the entire book. It isn't being swept under. It's VERY clear, and constantly referenced, that FemThor is not the Odinson. Nobody is confused about that, and nobody's ignoring it. Pretending that they "flipped" Thor's gender is so completely wrongheaded that you'd have to be completely ignorant of the storyline in question to make that claim.

You might not LIKE the particular storyline. There's a lot of duds, in Marvel's stuff, even if there's sometimes gold as well. That doesn't mean these particular changes are bad in and of themselves, for involving apparent shifts in those stories.

They're literally complaining about character development. I just don't get it.

this is the sole reason i made an account on mmoc i couldn't stand people who clearly had no clue saying stuff like this. i mean its not even hard if you don't read comics to take two seconds to atlest google if but if you don't read comics who do you care in the first place.

[Macaquerie]

Which was the reason why things went so downhill so fast...(8k US stores in the 80s down to 2k in the 90s)

Changing the media formats were what saved them from going belly up.
You can't go from the big boom of selling millions of print copies to a fraction of that without needing to change the entire way of doing business or else go bankrupt.
But then that's related to what's been going on with the more generic book store, such as Borders.

I wonder how long comic book publishers are going to be trying to reproduce the 90s boom period, without realizing that this was also a time when baseball cards, pogs, beanie babies, and all manner of other useful and necessary products also enjoyed brief bouts of popularity. The fact of the matter is that comics are at their best when they are just a nebulous childhood memory, actually going back and reading them now is bound to disappoint.

[Shadowferal]

I wonder how long comic book publishers are going to be trying to reproduce the 90s boom period, without realizing that this was also a time when baseball cards, pogs, beanie babies, and all manner of other useful and necessary products also enjoyed brief bouts of popularity. The fact of the matter is that comics are at their best when they are just a nebulous childhood memory, actually going back and reading them now is bound to disappoint.

I tend to go back to my 80s stuff and read them on occasion. The writing was just too damn good.

[Ivanstone]

Changing the media formats were what saved them from going belly up.
You can't go from the big boom of selling millions of print copies to a fraction of that without needing to change the entire way of doing business or else go bankrupt.
But then that's related to what's been going on with the more generic book store, such as Borders.

But that's exactly what happened. There's over a decade of comics between the market crash and the emergence of digital comics and the widespread success of superhero movies.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah maybe they should realise you don't pull the rug from under your fans in favour of people who claim they're fans just to virtue signal, and expect good results.

Oh and I really wanted a bastardisation of Gwen Stacy. Yep. Great. Thanks for that Marvel.

http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=26090807

$150 for a comic from 2 years ago. Clearly no one likes Gwen as a Spider-person.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder how long comic book publishers are going to be trying to reproduce the 90s boom period, without realizing that this was also a time when baseball cards, pogs, beanie babies, and all manner of other useful and necessary products also enjoyed brief bouts of popularity. The fact of the matter is that comics are at their best when they are just a nebulous childhood memory, actually going back and reading them now is bound to disappoint.

Its different this time around. Part of the problem with the 90's boom is that it attracted a large number who weren't comic fans speculating on stuff. I remember the line up of people trying to buy Death of Superman and I was like: "Who are these people?". I knew it wasn't going to be worth anything because I had some notion of the print run but that didn't stop people from buying $10 copies of it the next day.

Now its a niche market. The people who are left are the ones who genuinely want all that stuff. People like to collect stuff.

[TwistedSkull]

While i think diversity for the sake of diversity is wrong, i doubt you can blame it all on diversity. To me it sounds as if it's a too costly hobby.

- - - Updated - - -

People can get deeply attached to characters that they have enjoyed and loved through the years. When you go and change them, often times drastically, it can cause people to react negatively and not want to continue showing interest in that character.

Swapping genders is likely a major one for people. Example - I don't want a female Thor. If it does happen, I'll likely lose interest in the character.

This seems plausible.

[Clone]

Stumbled on this article today and immediately thought of this thread.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...utm_source=twb

It has a better analysis on why the comic industry is failing.

[Deleted]

$150 for a comic from 2 years ago. Clearly no one likes Gwen as a Spider-person.

Now you are a bit dishonest, the comic have several front page there most look exactly the same with a little color variation.... Gwen and brown buldings $5.20 Gwen and purple buldings $8.49 Gwen and light blue buldings $150.00

So its clearly that peopel do not buy the comic for $150.00 on the after market becuse they like Gwen as a Spider-person but becuse some front page are more rare than others and people speculating on it.

[Hammerfest]

Maybe if Marvel Comics went for more mass appeal like Marvel Studios, they'd have better sales. Comic book sales have been in a slump since the early 2000s. It's mostly due to content, in my view. Liberal content.

This editorial from Bleeding Cool in 2012 summed the problem up precisely...

[Ivanstone]

Now you are a bit dishonest, the comic have several front page there most look exactly the same with a little color variation.... Gwen and brown buldings $5.20 Gwen and purple buldings $8.49 Gwen and light blue buldings $150.00

So its clearly that peopel do not buy the comic for $150.00 on the after market becuse they like Gwen as a Spider-person but becuse some front page are more rare than others and people speculating on it.

Sigh. Learn what a first print is before discussing comic values.

http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=26090807

Edge of Spider-verse #2A. First print of the comic and first appearance of the character. In Near Mint (9.4/10) condition the retailer is selling it for $150.

[Mormolyce]

We're necroing this? Well at least we can talk about comic books for a while instead of the usual crap.

Now you are a bit dishonest, the comic have several front page there most look exactly the same with a little color variation.... Gwen and brown buldings $5.20 Gwen and purple buldings $8.49 Gwen and light blue buldings $150.00

So its clearly that peopel do not buy the comic for $150.00 on the after market becuse they like Gwen as a Spider-person but becuse some front page are more rare than others and people speculating on it.

Sure, but cover variants alone do not make a comic book valuable as the speculator crash in the 90s proved.

I think it's undeniable that Spider-Gwen has been popular.

Maybe if Marvel Comics went for more mass appeal like Marvel Studios, they'd have better sales. Comic book sales have been in a slump since the early 2000s. It's mostly due to content, in my view. Liberal content.

This editorial from Bleeding Cool in 2012 summed the problem up precisely...

Pssssst... comic books were always liberal.

I remember reading one of the very first Superman stories, where Superman is listening to a judge sentence some kids to jail and:



His solution? He breaks the kids out of the back of the police van, and then smashes the slums to pieces to force the government to build better housing for the poor. Problem solved.

Think it's Action Comics no. 8.

[Exeris]

Last time I played Tera it was plagued with those Asian child porn characters (Elin).

That character alone was the reason I never tried Tera even though I think the game looked very interesting.

[Kul Tiras]

This thread is such a load of the most typical type of new age hipster SJW cocksucking BULLSHIT.

Marvel has been doing RETARDED shit like making captain america a woman and gay, switching genders and nationalities and sexual orientation of their characters for no reason but to pander to all these fucking cis-gendered-sjw-ultra-feminist fucking mutants out there.

And you just slap some bullshit in your original posts obviously without doing ANY research whatsoever on the subject.

THAT'S why their sales are falling, just like WoW sales are falling after all this panda time traveling golden child of prophecy bullshit, lack of gameplay innovation aside.

Fucking mmo champion man, cesspit of all misleading self-proclaimed justice warriors in the world.