[Destruction] It's happening

[Jondar]

These changes seem very awesome, definetly a step in the right direction. The irony is strong on all the whiners out there - back at launch people whined about mechanics, and claimed to "not care about DPS, just bad mechanics." Blizz then went ahead buffing DPS while making gameplay worse (talent row swaps, backdraft nerf, ELT buff etc) and suddenly the whining stopped. And now, with mechanics being fixed people are whining about DPS loss, which is just bullshit - numbers are very easy to adjust.

If you think this means our mechanics are fixed you haven't been paying attention to what problems our mechanics have. We're getting bits back with very few of the elements that contributed to its success. We don't have:

- Toggle FNB to apply Immolate and Conflag which generated a !@#$LOAD of the bits peopleremember having.

-RoF generating bits which was an instant and an AoE that also contributed a !@#$load to bit generation when that was a thing

- A good Shadowburn to snipe adds while moving to allow big generation on the fly

- KJC to allow generation/damage while moving

All of which greatly contributed to the positives of what people remembered about Embers. We're going to get an extremely bastardized version of what people remember because the kit is not built around or optimized for bit generation. Having this change happen in a .5 patch is going to be a nightmare. All it's going to fix is peoples urge for nostalgia - and as we all know, that only lasts for a very short time.

[KrazyK923]

Because everyone knows if you enjoyed MoP's format it was only because it was overtuned. Yup. And only for the specific reasons we keep bleating on about.

Outliers don't exist!

[Deleted]

The only thing I'd want back from the ones you mentioned is Shadowburn. Toggle FnB was alright but it really isn't a gamechanger. Same with RoF. KJC sucked balls imo.

[KrazyK923]

The only thing I'd want back from the ones you mentioned is Shadowburn. Toggle FnB was alright but it really isn't a gamechanger. Same with RoF. KJC sucked balls imo.

Pretty much. I didn't like it because of the FnB toggle or the RoF shard gain (Which was great but part of why we were OP), and KJC was stupid even in 5.4 when they only limited it to the filler, so I find that entire point ridiculous.

Really just Shadowburn as a baseline spell is the only thing I miss. Just having the entire spec focused around Chaos Bolt has always been a bad decision, which this still does, but at least makes our filler useful for something. Other than that, I'd like it if RoF generated embers at maybe the same, or slightly lower, rate of Immolate (right now), but that's really just a pipe dream.

I guess its a radical notion that I want my key presses to always be doing something useful. And Incinerate currently is not. Oh wait---except for the 5% chance for it to give me a proc of my portal. We have half of a spec's overview in bullet points and people are already like, "ITS GUN BE BAD! NOSTALGIA!"

lol

[Irian]

Hey, maybe I won't hate the spec again and regret all the AP I've invested into it!

I'd like to give Blizzard shit but this is the first time I've seen such a significant change to a class mid-expansion in memory, at least for warlocks. The way they described the design shift sounds more like what I remember destruction as, and I for one am excited as hell for my fun destruction to come back.

I will be honest, though, making us have to spec into any AoE at all is still a stupid as hell design. FnB should be baseline, especially with the way they're designing new embers. In an age with silly stuff like fire mages and shit almost every melee this would be relatively balanced for AoE. They can change FnB to instead cause Rain of Fire to be free but have a cooldown so players that enjoyed maintaining it still have that option and also get the minor incidental cleave benefit.

[Averrix]

Everyone is hailing these changes as great and awesome, but I don't think it's going to change much really. There are nerfs also which are going to just put things pretty much in the same line as they are now. Yeah, CB is getting buffed, but Havoc is getting nerfed. The bit generation seems like it's going to be slow.

[Deleted]

Pretty much. I didn't like it because of the FnB toggle or the RoF shard gain (Which was great but part of why we were OP), and KJC was stupid even in 5.4 when they only limited it to the filler, so I find that entire point ridiculous.

Really just Shadowburn as a baseline spell is the only thing I miss.

Not to mention, shit like KJC is exactly why the prunes happened in the first place. Everyone casting while moving, immunity on every class and stuff like that. It was dull.

I just hope they will take a look at our second talent row, RE and Eradiction will be even less viable from now on.

[Deleted]

I still want my Shadowburn execute back. Right now the talent is completely pointless. Bring it back as a hard hitting soul shard generating execute!

[Irian]

Everyone is hailing these changes as great and awesome, but I don't think it's going to change much really. There are nerfs also which are going to just put things pretty much in the same line as they are now. Yeah, CB is getting buffed, but Havoc is getting nerfed. The bit generation seems like it's going to be slow.

I can't speak for anyone else but honestly my problem was never destruction's damage.
Sure it's felt like it should be better this expansion and less pigeonholed into "two far apart cleave targets", but as a whole I can keep up on almost any kind of fight with good players when RNG blesses me.

My gripe with it is that it's shit to play and feels frustrating. You can have bad pulls thanks to bad shards, bad portals, bosses not having adds, it feels like you're praying for the stars to align for things to simply go right. This isn't the MoP destruction that I loved enough to nearly drop demo for, this is some shitty watered down crapshoot of a spec with everything you could possibly hate about the old class and nothing that you could like about it.

If new destruction is bottom of the meters but plays more like the class I enjoy then I'll take my bottom slot happily. The current class just flat out sucks.


As a side note, it's also worth noting that we have no idea what the traits are going to do, and I have a strong feeling that stuff like Soulsnatcher will receive minor redesigns to follow destruction's new more consistent model. This might help with shards having a more constant flow. If Soulsnatcher, say, instead had a 30% chance to refund half a soulshard instead of 15% for a full one it would make the class feel a good bit more consistent.

[Maleific]

So Blizzard wants to fuck Demon, just Destro deserves attention?

They fucked demon when they made it into imp mastery spec.

On a side note: Going Destruction loot spec.

Also would like to see the cost of chaos bolt go down to enable some kind of pooling to happen...I don't think they will...but i can dream.

Just made my day lol.

[trm90]

Removing elements of RNG is welcome but the tier100 nerfs have come out of nowhere. Maybe the numbers do add up, I don't know, but Havoc having a 45 sec CD is balls

[Jondar]

The only thing I'd want back from the ones you mentioned is Shadowburn. Toggle FnB was alright but it really isn't a gamechanger. Same with RoF. KJC sucked balls imo.

Well, toggle FnB was a game changer no matter how you look at it (like it or not. It was VERY impactful.) as it amplified the amount of ember bits we got ten fold; but I'm not even talking about the direct damage boost it provided. Single target generation with Embers was always very lacklustre and without the previous FnB synergy I don't see how our generation will be anywhere near as good as it was with the previous bit systems. The point about each of those skills wasn't to address them individually or whether or not they were 'liked,' the point was to highlight how they worked together to smooth out an ember-based kit as a whole. Our current kit does not allow for that because it doesn't have those things - we're two pruning waves past the kits that were built around Embers - which is why I have my concerns, considering we're losing a lot of passive generation which has been very effective (we generate a metric fuck tonne of shards right now) despite its RNG nature.

This isn't the MoP destruction that I loved enough to nearly drop demo for, this is some shitty watered down crapshoot of a spec with everything you could possibly hate about the old class and nothing that you could like about it...

If new destruction is bottom of the meters but plays more like the class I enjoy then I'll take my bottom slot happily. The current class just flat out sucks.

This also isn't going to be MoP's ember bit system. At all. It's literally going to be a watered down crapshoot of a previous generation system; it's being introduced in a .5 patch. Embers weren't great because they just decided to throw them at us.. they were great because the entire spec was built to synergize with them. That is not the case anymore. If this is the only big change we receive, it is not going to play any better - we'll just go from higher output lower damage CB's to lower output higher damage CB's and nerfed cleave. It would be extremely short sighted to settle for this as our major change.

[Deleted]

How will these changes affect destro legendaries; Any ideas about the potential rankings;

[Deleted]

Well, toggle FnB was a game changer no matter how you look at it (like it or not. It was VERY impactful.) as it amplified the amount of ember bits we got ten fold; but I'm not even talking about the direct damage boost it provided. Single target generation with Embers was always very lacklustre and without the previous FnB synergy I don't see how our generation will be anywhere near as good as it was with the previous bit systems. The point about each of those skills wasn't to address them individually or whether or not they were 'liked,' the point was to highlight how they worked together to smooth out an ember-based kit as a whole. Our current kit does not allow for that because it doesn't have those things - we're two pruning waves past the kits that were built around Embers - which is why I have my concerns, considering we're losing a lot of passive generation which has been very effective (we generate a metric fuck tonne of shards right now) despite its RNG nature.

Classes don't get every tool for every situation anymore, and I don't quite understand whats so amazing about a I win AoE with a toggle while continuing my single target rotation button anyway. It was fucking broken, and you know it. And when it comes to reduced shard gain: Thank god. We've been slowly drifting back to WoD CB spam shitfest.

[CuchuCachu]

Thank god. Now just a less rng-focused Affliction with actual Malefic Grasp would be ideal

[penquinn]

How will these changes affect destro legendaries; Any ideas about the potential rankings;

magistrike gets a boost; the shoulders are better than before.. seems like the belt will go down.. gotta figure odyr gets a change if you can't have 24/7 havoc lol

[Juggsa]

Fucking bring back shadowburn as it once was and baseline or i fuckikg refuse to play this specc

[Jondar]

Classes don't get every tool for every situation anymore, and I don't quite understand whats so amazing about a I win AoE with a toggle while continuing my single target rotation button anyway. It was fucking broken, and you know it. And when it comes to reduced shard gain: Thank god. We've been slowly drifting back to WoD CB spam shitfest.

To be clear, I'm not speaking in favour of having old FnB back or any of those OP abilities. I'm saying that 7.2.5 bits aren't going to be as good as people think because it lacks synergy. That doesn't mean I want the things of the past back.. just that I'd like better synergy in the current kit if we have to have a past resource system now.

[Sheevah24]

People are asking for everything without compromise... i don't get this,really.

I mean i understand and i admit that Destruction is in a pretty bad spot right now and it needs fixing.

But seeing posts from people asking that Destruction becomes as good as Affliction for ST is simply NOT happening. Imagine where that would take Destruction if combined with Havoc. EVEN with the non-avoidable cooldown.

Blizzard stated that they want destro locks be the top 2-target cleave spec.so you shall be middle pack for ST,maybe just a tad higher,that's it.

People asking Shadowburn's soul shard generation be baseline; now that contradicts Blizzard's statement that they want less soul shards but way bigger numbers for the spenders,right? And judging by how often Adds appear in Nighthold and expecting similar stuff for ToS as well, i don't see the logic in giving you so much shard generation.

The changes announced seem good to me at least. As long as the tuning of numbers increases Destruction's damage overall and not just keep it at the same level while providing only smoother playstyle changes,things should look good.

[Deleted]

I agree.

I'll quote my reply to the Blizz forums thread,

You sir, are first person in many pages about this topic across various forums that realizes what this change will do to destro locks if it stays this way. Glad to see that some people still have brains left.

As for the rest of you folks out there: TIMEO BLIZZARD ET DONA FERENTES
I will hold my cheering (if any happens at all) until this thing goes live and gets seen in action. It wouln't be first time warlock changes get announced as uber awsome and end up being nerf for no reason other then blizzards "fuck you warlocks" set of mind.